Setting up my 190gal (still a newbie)

[MikeP]

I've only been into marine for a few months so I still have a lot to learn. Recently my Dad gave me his old tank and I figure if your gonna have a 190 gallon tank it had better be salt water (I will likely have FOWLR and maybe some soft corals). I would like any help or tips from start to finish on getting this thing going (leave nothing out even the smallest details help). I don't have any real specific questions right now so just start throwing posts up. I have my 55gal I can use for a sump/fuge but have no idea what equiptment I need or even how a sump works. I also need to know about lighting. I'm sure I will think of many questions once I get going. One thing that does come to mind is that I am worried about the age of the tank, it's over 10 years and has not had water in it for a long time. I will check the silicone and test fill it if I can but is there anything else I should think about when starting up an older tank? The reason my dad took it down was because the center piece of glass (the brace?) came loose and he found it at the bottom of the tank one day. He was concerened about the integrity of the tank without the brace and didn't want it to break itself open one day. I will take some pics and post them ASAP.

Thanks for any help
Mike

[christyf5]

moved to reef forum (you'll get more views that way :biggrin: )

[Quagmire]

Silicone can be trusted for about 5 yrs,after that its gets riskier every year.You may want to resilicone before going any farther.Also check the referance library near the top of the reef forum.Some realy good info.

[MikeP]

moved to reef forum (you'll get more views that way :biggrin: )
Thanks

[Molino]

I don't know much about sumps, but there is a lot of great information about them at www.melevsreef.com

[TheReefGeek]

You should at least get the center brace installed again, and possibly get the tank re-siliconed if it hasn't ever been done on this tank.

Is the tank drilled with an overflow? If not you will need an external overflow in order to use the sump.

For lighting, it depends on the corals you want to grow, if any. If you are thinking fowlr, just go with NO lighting, that is just normal fluorescents in lighting strips available cheap. Use a coupld actinic/blue tubes along with white ones for a nicer color. You could upgrade it later if you want to grow corals.

The best advice I can give is don't buy anything, not one piece of equipment until you have your entire setup planned out after doing tons and tons of research. Post lots of questions, read as much as you can find, then research and plan some more.

You can find good deals on used stuff here too, once you know what you need/want.

[TheReefGeek]

You have a great community of reefers in Calgary, and some excellend stores.

Couple questions for you: Where will the tank be located, does everything have to fit under the stand, how tall is the stand, what are the dimensions of the tank.

[MikeP]

Couple questions for you: Where will the tank be located, does everything have to fit under the stand, how tall is the stand, what are the dimensions of the tank.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the replies Rory. The tank will be set up in our den along one of the main walls that supports the house (at least I think it does). The dimensions of the tank are 60 inches long, 30 inches tall and 24 inches deep. The stand is just slightly bigger length and width wize and I'm guessing 36 inches tall. It would be nice to fit everything under the stand. The stand is basically a metal frame with wood covering. One of the things I'm doing is recovering the stand and I plan to make everything accessible from the front maybe the whole front will come off or it will have large doors. I plan to reinstall the brace and resilicone the tank or have it done by someone here in Calgary (suggestions?). The tank has a corner overflow, a hole drilled in the center along the back and a valve like one used for a garden hose at the bottom right/front corner. As far as lighting, I have to see what my dad has but from what I can remember when the tank was set up the lights are not 'strip type' they were two separate lampshade looking units that hung over top (if that makes any sense). The tank will have live rock, some soft corrals and fish of course. One of my concerns is on tank placement like I said it will be along one of the main walls of the house but how do I make sure it won't end up in my basement? I think it will weigh 2000-2500 pounds when I'm done. I remember my dad reinforceing the floor at his house but the tank was placed along an 'outside' wall and not a wall in the middle of the house.

[TheReefGeek]

Ok, good to hear the tank is drilled, so you don't have to mess around with an overflow box.

If you are going to have soft corals, make sure you don't pick fish that will pick at them. Try to find out what kind of lighting your dad had running, if you can find any ballasts or anything, post the info and we can help identify. Pictures would be even better, along with any stats you see.

Is your basement finished? If not, you can usually tell a load bearing wall from a non-load bearing wall by hitting the 2x4s with your fist, and seeing how much they flex. The load bearing 2x4s will be much more rigid. If your basement is unfinished you can pretty easily add some 2x6s and teleposts to support the floor.

That said, I had a 110 gallon tank (6ft though, so weight was spread out along more wall) on the main level of an apartment build in the 50's.

Check if the tank is going to run along the supporting beams, or across them, hopefully you are running across them. One tip is to put a large board under the stand. This way the weight is spread out across a larger surface area, instead of just at the points where the stand touches the floor. (or at least the weight will be more eve)

Don't try to push too much flow through your sump, if you have 2 holes in the overflow I would use them both as drains (instead of traditionally 1 drain, 1 return) and just push as much water as 1 drain can handle, then in case of a drain line failure your other drain line will be able to handle the flow.

You could use the hole at the back of the tank for a closed loop manifold for water flow if you want. I have a sequence baraccuda on a closed loop manifold and am happy with it, I have 7 1/2" loc line nozzles I can point anywhere to customize my flow. Tunze streams would be awesome, or seio's for cheaper but not as good.

I would put as big of a sump as you can fit, and put a refugium in it, and buy the best skimmer you can afford. If you can't afford a good skimmer, don't start the tank until you can. I use an ASM, they are cheap but good IMO. A G4X would be awesome on your setup, especially if you are going to get some larger fish that eat a lot and waste a lot. http://www.asmskimmer.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=33

Euroreef, bubble king, and deltec are others that are great skimmers, but for me they are cost prohibative.

[TheReefGeek]

Do you have a budget in mind?

Also seeing as you already want some soft corals, that could very quickly escalate into LPS, then SPS, clams, anemonies, etc. So I would plan your setup thinking that you will go full reef in the future, especially water flow.

[MikeP]

Don't really have a budget in mind I just want to make sure I waste as little money as possible. I will be setting up in stages to aviod draining my bank account all at once. After the tank is safe to fill again what should my first step be? I know I will likely never be able to afford MH lights for a tank this size. What kind of lighting do I need for soft corals? or is that lighting just as expensive as reef lights?

[OCDP]

Don't really have a budget in mind I just want to make sure I waste as little money as possible. I will be setting up in stages to aviod draining my bank account all at once. After the tank is safe to fill again what should my first step be? I know I will likely never be able to afford MH lights for a tank this size. What kind of lighting do I need for soft corals? or is that lighting just as expensive as reef lights?

I bet you in a year or so you'll have halides over that tank anyways :razz:

[TheReefGeek]

Halides don't have to be expensive if you build yourself a lighting hood to mount some spider reflectors in.

If you want to do cheap halides, buy 2 x 400w halides. They cover 24" each, so that means the ends of your tank will be slightly dim, just leave 6" where you don't put corals. You can buy basic m58 ballasts in cheap enclosures from a lighting wholesale store for cheap, or post here for used one. Then buy 20K XM bulbs from www.jlaquatics.com for $85 each, and a set of 12" spider reflectors with mogul sockets. You can do this for around $400 - $450. Then your bulb replacement cost each year is $170. You can build the lighting hood out of pine or similar for cheap, and you will need some fans for cooling. So say $750 for the hood, lighting, and fans. It would be better to go with 3 x 400w or 3 x 250w for better coverage, but you can start with 2, see how it looks, and add in a 3rd any time later easily. This way you could keep anything you want in your tank, and halides look awesome.

For soft corals in a deep tank you should use PC lights, but they aren't cheap either, better to go with halides from the start IMO, save you money in the long run.

Once your tank is safe and tested, then you need to cycle your rock to establish the bacteria levels, then you can add livestock but you will need lighting (nothing fancy for fish only though) and then a skimmer, etc. Oh but of course you need to have your sump plumbed and ready to go first. You might want to look at an auto top off system too. For long term success an RODI unit such as Aquasafe are great, but I am told Calgary water is better than Edmontons because Edmonton uses chloramine, Calgary doesn't.

You will need test kits, (good ones, salifert of Seachem, not Hagen) a hydrometer or better yet a refractometer, etc. Along with your sump I would plan the refugium from the beginning. And of course you have to decide if you are going with a sand bottom or not, and what size grains, and how deep. etc. etc.

[MikeP]

Well, I will be at my dads on the weekend and check everything he has. I can use my 55gal as a sump but can I build the fuge into it? Do I have to use a tank as a sump? I wouldn't mind selling it to help finance the 190. I thought I read a post about a guy that uses a rubbermaid container as a sump. Then I could use my old 10 gal as a fuge? or should the sump and fuge be together? I will take pics of the 190 and post them after the weekend.

[OCDP]

Well, I will be at my dads on the weekend and check everything he has. I can use my 55gal as a sump but can I build the fuge into it? Do I have to use a tank as a sump? I wouldn't mind selling it to help finance the 190. I thought I read a post about a guy that uses a rubbermaid container as a sump. Then I could use my old 10 gal as a fuge? or should the sump and fuge be together? I will take pics of the 190 and post them after the weekend.

Hmm, I think you'd be better off keeping that tank for a sump/fuge rather than sell it. I would use the bigger tank for the sump, and the smaller for the fuge. For one, you wont get a whole lot for the 55 anyways, and in the long run it will be more effective and have lots of benefits . I think you'd get more use and benefits on your tank if you used it.

JMO... take a few bucks, or put that tank to serious use. It will pay off.

[TheReefGeek]

Keep the 55, especially if it is the 4 footer. Assuming you want to keep everything under your stand, having a seperate fuge and sump can be difficult. Great if you can do it though.

You could partition the 55g with glass or acrylic dividers to make skimmer, fuge and return sections. Make the fuge as big as you can, which means you have to decide your "ultimate" skimmer so you know its footprint so you can size the sump accordingly.

Yes you can use rubbermaids, but strong ones that are food grade would cost more than you will get for the 55g. Plus setting up dividers in rubbermaids that are not square is difficult, especially because the sides bow out when you add water, then you have to brace them with wood, etc..... not worth it IMO.

[reeferaddict]

Do you have a budget in mind?


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHA!!!

*Rolling on the floor - tears streaming down my cheeks* :biggrin:

[MikeP]

Keep the 55, especially if it is the 4 footer. Assuming you want to keep everything under your stand, having a seperate fuge and sump can be difficult. Great if you can do it though.

You could partition the 55g with glass or acrylic dividers to make skimmer, fuge and return sections. Make the fuge as big as you can, which means you have to decide your "ultimate" skimmer so you know its footprint so you can size the sump accordingly.

Yes you can use rubbermaids, but strong ones that are food grade would cost more than you will get for the 55g. Plus setting up dividers in rubbermaids that are not square is difficult, especially because the sides bow out when you add water, then you have to brace them with wood, etc..... not worth it IMO.
OK I'll keep the 55, it does sound like the best way to go. Can anyone give me recommendations for a protien skimmer and return pump I would like to start looking into price and availability in Calgary.

Thanks

[TheReefGeek]

www.jlaquatics.com has good prices on pumps (BC)

www.asmskimmer.com has good prices on ASM skimmers (US)

www.saltycritter has good prices on both (US)

Ordering from the US isn't bad as long as they ship USPS, then brokerage is $5.00 flat fee, and you pay GST when you pickup.