Sploosh!!!

[Delphinus]

I finally got one of two planned surge tanks going on my 75g! Been running all weekend in the "prototype" model. I get about a 4 gallon surge emptied into the tank in about 4 seconds (wow, so that's 3600 gph if it were a sustained flow). As impressive as that sounds, it is nowhere near the kind of blast of water that is a RealWaveInTheOcean(tm), but I'm happy with the effect (the corals seem to dig it too, but time will be the ultimate judge of that).

Next step is to glue the pieces together so it's no longer a "prototype." Of course, already I'm seeing ways to improve it ... maybe for the second surge tank. Ah well, it's all a learning process, it's all good. :cool:

[Aquattro]

Tony, what kind of noise levels do you get from this? I've plumbed my tank to fit a surge box thru the side, but still haven't got to that part yet. Any tips?

[Delphinus]

Hi Brad, I went with the toilet-flapper aka Borneman-style over the Carlson-style because it is said to be less noisy. It's definitely not bad, I hardly notice the noise at all.

The basic setup is this. My surge tank is in a room in behind the tank, with the plumbing coming through the wall. That said, there is a doorway right next to the tank and surge bucket and sump right next to the door which I must keep open (otherwise I'd have to have a different room for the cats to do their business in).

There is a slight "ker-sploosh" in the tank at the onset of the surge, and a slightly discernable "thunk!" of the flapper valve slapping shut at the end of the surge. The slurping sound in between is easily filtered out by other ambient noises. The one noise that I do notice is there is a slight increase in the tank overflow's gurgling as it has to deal with the increased water flow for about 15 seconds or so.

There is a fair amount of bubbles introduced by the surge, but they clear themselves within 15 seconds or so. I actually don't find the bubbles very offensive at all (which is unusual, given my earlier loathing of microbubbles from the sump return, which took me months of replumbing and replumbing to finally solve). I had to create a vent at the end of the discharge tube, otherwise all the air in the discharge tube come out the outputs in this tremendously big "burp" at the beginning of the surge which was completely unacceptable (for one it was splashing over the tank's edge, plus getting my halides wet. Whooops!) But I drilled a small U-tube at the top of the discharge tube and this burp went away. The air exits the top of the discharge tube via this smaller U-tube, and then water spills out towards the end, but since it's a U-tube the water just exits into the tank.

The only way, I think, to completely eliminate any air bubbles would be to figure out a way to keep the discharge tube completely flooded in between surges. I beleive this could be done by having the lower edge of the surge bucket just below the top of the tank's water level. It might be tricky finding just the right height though, because I found that if the water level in the bucket doesn't go down right to the bottom, you can have problems with the flapper valve not closing (if the water level stays too high in the bucket at all times then it just remains floating). Might need to play around with this a bit before putting it "into production" on a reef tank. But it's an idea I want to toy around with for sure.

The other thing I want to eventually also play aorund with is an actual dump-bucket, to try to create an even more impressive "wave" of water. I haven't found too many useful DIY plans for somethin like that though ... and certainly a more risky project because it involves more moving parts ... at least with the toilet flapper, it comes with a built-in overflow so if the flapper fails for some reason, at least the water drains back into your tank and not the floor. :D

[ 09 September 2002, 09:41: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[Aquattro]

Thanks Tony. My design allows for the surge box to sit in the stand at tank level. I think I can keep the output flooded to avoid air. I think the bubbles might cause a fair amount of salt spray on the lights in short order...thoughts?
I'm also considering a closed-loop plumbed thru the side instead of the surge box. I would also have about 4 gallons going in. Do you think this is a sufficient amount, given the work involved? Or perhaps the closed loop would give better returns for the effort.
What is the length of your tank? Does 4 gallons travel most of this length? My tank is 5 ft. and I can only put a surge on one end. DO you think it will surge more thatn half way across the tank?

[Delphinus]

Possibly. My tank is 4', the surge does make it to the other side, but in a greatly diminished capacity. Of course, what is happening in my tank is I already have two powerheads at each side, aiming at each other ... so in the center of the tank where the currents meet there is this area of turbulence. Compounding this is the sump returns are also in the center. So the surge basically hits this convergence and then is diverted all over the place. That said, some does make it through and over to the other side though. I haven't tried the surge without the powerheads, to see how much it would then race across to the other side, but there's not a lot of doubt in my mind that it would make it no problem.

Of course, you can always make your surge stronger by raising your surge bucket. I have mine as high as I can get it without cutting a hole in my ceiling :D . Of course this extra strengh of the surge would be at the cost of losing a flooded discharge tube, so it becomes a judgment call.

Bubbles will cause salt spray. I haven't noticed any extra salt creep on my lights yet (hopefully they're high enough off the water, but who knows). To be fair it has only been running a couple of days. A week from now will be the next real test.

A closed loop was another option I considered. They're great for creating a lot of current, but I opted for this because I hoped it might be simpler, and cheaper (I just T-ed off my sump return so no extra powerheads or pumps) plus you get an actual "surge" more like a wave rather than a "constantly on" kind of current. (I'm really trying to go for a more "whoosh -- whoosh" kind of effect. :D

[Aquattro]

I agree that the wave action is more desirable. I currently have 1200 gph (less head) from the returns and 7 powerheads. Current isn't too bad. I think I'll continue with my plan and see how it goes. Unfortunately I can't raise the box as it will be inside the cabinet, however, I can insulate the entire compartment for noise. What did you end up using for a container? I have access to a square 5g bucket, but will most likely build an acrylic box after the "prototype" stage.

[Canadian Man]

AWSOME!
Can't wait to check it out Tony. :eek:

[Delphinus]

I'm just using a 5gal bucket from Revy (I think it was $3).

I originally was going to use a 5gal square bucket, but, I cracked the bottom of it: The toilet valve has a rubber triangular gasket. You need to flip this upside down so that the flat part sits against the bucket, not the tapered part. I had it the other way around on this bucket, and unfortunately what happens is as you tighten the valve onto the bucket, this triangular gasket puts more and more pressure onto the hole. Eventually the bucket just split (instead of creating a watertight seal).

I see no reason this couldn't be done with acrylic though. Would probably be a bit more durable and would probably look better. Since my bucket is hidden away anyways, looks weren't a concern for me.

PS. Hopefully I can get some drawings and pictures and some notes for "lessons learned", that I can put a more detailed post in the DIY forum soon.

[ 09 September 2002, 10:58: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[Aquattro]

Tony, I'll be starting this project as soon as I get the bucket( I think it's in the back of Stircrazy's truck). I'll try and get pics and measurements and take notes of anything I think could/would be an improvement if done again. I'll send them to you for your article.

[Tau2301]

Yes, I would also like to see what Tony has done.

Maybe Tony could host the September meeting?

[Canadian Man]

I believe Kim has an idea here. ;)

[Delphinus]

I think it's about my turn, too. Let me see if I can arrange for this? Unfortunately I have to go out of town for a few weeks starting the 23rd, so I don't know if that complicates things or not at this point. I will see if I can pull this off, and send out a meeting notice if it's possible. If not, maybe the October get-together could work.

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by Reef_Raf:
Tony, I'll be starting this project as soon as I get the bucket( I think it's in the back of Stircrazy's truck). <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i looked and there is no bucket in the back of my truck.. hmm :D :D

Steve