should I just pack it in???

[Snappy]

From a distance I think my tank looks not too bad, if I do say so myself, however up close and personal you can see several acro's are sick and are ready to die a slow RTN death. In the past 6 weeks or so I have lost about 7 colonies and several others are browning out on me. Due to my new job as of last fall I can't seem to keep up with the maintanence anymore and feel like I am fighting a loosing battle. I was going to build a bigger tank; fully automated, complete with a fish room, but don't know when I can get to that size of undertaking and then to move everything into the new tank will take weeks. I love the hobby but I am ready to give up. If I didn't have about $12K invested in the last 20 months it would be a no brainer. What should I do? Should I admit defeat? I need some advise or perhaps even a pep talk. I just know neither the tank or I are happy right now.
Below is a semi-recent photo (poor quality)of my 130 gal reef.
http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Snappy_full_frontal.jpg

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Snappy_LH_side_view.jpg

[Puff]

wow. your tank looks awesome man.

i love how full it is. looks great, altho if you say upclose things are dying... :(

IMO it looks awesome...


*tries to say "awesome" a couple more times*

[Willito]

Don't let a little RTNing discourage you Greg. Find out what's causing it and fix it. Obviously your maintanance has suffered, therefore your reef environment has changed too much too fast. The equilibrium is out of balance. It sounds like it could only get worst if you don't correct it. I have one suggestion that will help sustain your passion. Call it restructuring if you will. Evaluate all your healthy and sick corals. Frag and save what looks promising. Sell off half of your coral collection and save only your favorite ones. In doing so, your maintanance will ease up quite a bit and you will have much plentiful space for your truely favorite pieces. I thought about trying this myself. My oh My, where time has gone:confused:

[Johnny Reefer]

What about downsizing to, say, a 70g?
I've heard of this as being a positive solution that has worked for others.

And also, along the lines of what Willito suggests, downsizing the livestock per gallon ratio would be a plus too.

Cheers:smile:,

[Snappy]

Don't let a little RTNing discourage you Greg. Find out what's causing it and fix it. Obviously your maintanance has suffered, therefore your reef environment has changed too much too fast. The equilibrium is out of balance. It sounds like it could only get worst if you don't correct it. I have one suggestion that will help sustain your passion. Call it restructuring if you will. Evaluate all your healthy and sick corals. Frag and save what looks promising. Sell off half of your coral collection and save only your favorite ones. In doing so, your maintanance will ease up quite a bit and you will have much plentiful space for your truely favorite pieces. I thought about trying this myself. My oh My, where time has gone:confused:
I think using tap water is catching up to me and could be a large part of the problem. I was going to install a RO unit when I set up my room with the built in display but may have to do it sooner than later. I do of course have my favorites, however I look at the others that aren't as nice and can't help but think they have potential and given some TLC could become a favorite. They all have some sort of story so I would have a hard time parting with them even if I know that would be best.

[Snappy]

What about downsizing to, say, a 70g?
I've heard of this as being a positive solution that has worked for others.

And also, along the lines of what Willito suggests, downsizing the livestock per gallon ratio would be a plus too.

Cheers:smile:,
Can't bring myself to do a downsizing. I know it is a viable suggestion but I know I would pack it too tight as well. I was thinking more along the line of a 230 gal with a 120 gal sump and 30 gal fuge. My problem is being able to take the time to actually do it.
Thanks,

[Johnny Reefer]

Well, whatever you do, good luck.
I feel your pain. I've been fighting with a similar decision myself lately, for various reasons. Money. Work. Expensive upgrades needed to do the hobby right (repetitive Cyano lately). Plus this increasing desire to get my butt in some airplane seats and go travelling. It's hard to walk away from it, but for me it's the right decision and I'll be keeping all my tanks in storage and will get back into it in a few years.

Anyway, sorry to hijack your thread, just that I've been thinkin' similar thoughts and I couldn't resist expressing them here.

Cheers:smile:,

[TheReefGeek]

If you already have 12K in, go buy an RODI unit, and setup an auto-top off system too.

Do you have a refugium?

What skimmer are you using, and what is your gallons?

[Delphinus]

I feel your pain. Once the setup starts a downward trend it can be a very tough task to turn things around. This last year, possibly year and a bit, has been one of the toughest on me in the hobby so far and I've been in the game closing in on ten years.

Going to a bigger system is my plan as well, I think the idea has merit, the question is what to do in the meantime. You could consider selling off some stock, it will help in the finances department to get the next system going, but the real benefit is if it buys you some time to limp along in the interim.

I've been battling the same questions myself, and have come incredible close to saying "this is enough" on several occasions. I still haven't ruled it out to be honest, I have a 280g sitting on my basement floor that I was going to develop my basement around, and I'm having the hardest time motivating myself to get on with it.

Hearing that Enmax utilities are going up 21 per cent in July ($21 for every $100 .. not good ... that means my bill is going to go up at least $60) is going to hurt. A lot.

You have managed to make yourself a nice system, hang in there. Sometimes you just need to shake things up a bit. If you're anything like me, you'll miss it if you quit outright. Good luck with whatever you decide.

The other thing to keep in mind is that it's summer right now, and it's easy to think about stopping when it's summer. But for the 18 months of the year that it's not summer, it's nice to have a slice of the tropics in your house to keep your sanity..

[TheReefGeek]

You could sell off all your livestock and live rock, and try keeping a nano for now. That in turn might spike your interest for a larger tank again.

I have found with a bigger tank it is much more difficult to "recover" after things slip away. When my tank crashed from the bad batch of instant ocean salt, and I lost all my fish but one, and 90% of my corals, I almost packed it in. But finally, now, after almost 8 months, my tank is healthy again, and I am glad I kept at it. It was so tough watching a tank covered in hair algae for months and months though. Now if I could just kill off the aiptasia buggers that got a foothold, I would be even better!

Anyhow you could try a nano for a while, just an idea.

[Joe Reefer]

I feel your pain Snappy.:biggrin:

[muck]

Anything I can help with Greg?

[Snappy]

Thanks for your input and ideas everyone. I think the RODI unit is in the cards p.d.q. and I'll see if that helps. I am still leaning towards the upgrade but am not sure what to do with my stuff while the new system is under construction. Seems crazy to sell it off only to have to go buy new stuff when it's done, especially considering I can fill the new tank with what I have. I need to figure out how to store my corals while I setup and aquascape the new tank. Oh yeah then there is the cycling time to consider.:rolleyes: Since I have at least 400 lbs of LR, I likely won't be adding much new rock, so I am hoping that the cycle period will be fairly breif. However much of the surface rock is encrusted so that will have to wait.
Any ideas?

[christyf5]

First off, that sucks you're having problems. Tony covered most of what I wanted to say (plus the stupid server crashed last night while I was typing out my epic reply). While chatting on msn he and I have talked each other out of quitting several times over the last year probably. :razz: RTN/STN is a bitch.:evil:

Secondly, moving tanks is a pain in the arse. Thats nothing new. However, I used all the same rock etc (minus the sandbed though) when switching my tank over and I had zero cycle. As long as your rock is cured, I would imagine you wouldn't see much of a cycle if any at all. Even when I've done tank switches starting with new sand (same rock) I haven't seen a cycle.

Is the new system is going in the same place as the old?? Perhaps you can get some buddies to coral sit for you for awhile while you get everything in order? If you're putting the new tank in a new location all I have to say is "reef meeting!" Lure people with pizza and beer! Us reef nerds are always game for stuff like that (heck, even minus the pizza and beer for me!).

In the meantime, I think the RODI will really help your system and likely you will wonder why you didn't do it before (at least in my case, your tank looks pretty damned good for tapwater). Can you possibly change the flow in the tank or increase it? That might help.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/6/aafeature2

[Willito]

Man I don't know how you've done it for so long without an RO/DI unit. The corals live and breath through their surrounding, I bet you it's the main cause of all your problems. With the spring run-offs lately, the water is full of inpurities and that can reek major havoc. Get on one of those units right away.

Downsizing won't make you happy, downsizing the content may. The way your tank looks right now, with that many corals, you are bound to reach a point where you will have to get rid of some. There just won't be enought room for all to grow.

[Samw]

I also wrote a post yesterday and the server went down by the time I hit submit.

Anyhow, over the past 4-5 years, I bought dozens and dozens of Acros and several Bird's Nests. I lost every piece of Acro and Bird's Nest. I could never keep them for a length of time. Bird's Nest usually last 1-2 months max. I used RO water from day 1.

Everything changed when I added a UV sterilizer and upgraded my skimmer. I believe the UV Sterilizer has killed off whatever killed my SPS (bacteria, algae, protozoa, etc) and the additional oxygen (measured w/ my DO meter) from the skimmer kept them strong. I've restocked with dozens of Acro colonies and frags. The color and growth that I get now, I have never experienced in the past. I have so many Acros now that I have to eventually sell some off.

Do you have a UV sterilizer? If not, it could be worth a try rather than giving up. The UV hasn't helped too much with my Ick problem though. I introduced a fish w/ ick and other fish also caught it. The ick has been in my tank now for several weeks. However, my fish are all fine. The ick will go away on its own though (w/o casualties) as it always has in the past before I installed the UV sterilzer. I'm waiting for the ick to go away before I start selling my SPS in case people get my tank water into their tanks.

I now use only tap water for my Top-off (Vancouver's tap water only has a TDS value of about 5-8ppm). WRT browning, I do getting browning if too much chlorinated water gets into the tank such as when I am topping off 5 gallons out of my 45G system with fresh chlorinated tap water. The Acros don't die nor have tissue loss though. They color back up in a couple of weeks. There's no browning when the tap water has been sitting in the reservoir for a long time. So that's why I think it was the chlorine that browned my Acros.

[Snappy]

Samw--Yes I have a UV sterilizer. Had it disconnected for several months because the filter/pump it was hooked into was leaking, but it has been back up for a couple of weeks now.

Will - Yeah the spring run off is a big problem. I talked to Danny at Wai's a while back, who also uses tap water, and he said he looses countless acro's every spring.

Christy - the tank needs to be moved before construction can start and the new tank will be built in elsewhere.

I will start researching an RODI unit right away. Anyone have any suggestions on those?

[TheReefGeek]

I have no complaints with my AquaFX model, I have contacted the manufacturer in the US a few times, and service is excellent.

There are cheaper models though.

I went with 100gpd unit, overkill, but means I can fill my water change reservoire quicily when required.

[Samw]

Samw--Yes I have a UV sterilizer. Had it disconnected for several months because the filter/pump it was hooked into was leaking, but it has been back up for a couple of weeks now.



In my tank, it took about a couple of weeks after I installed the UV before the Acros stopped STN'ing. You lost your Acros during a period of time when your UV was not installed or was just set up. So I think and I hope the UV will help you. Of course, getting RO is a good idea too. Though, RO didn't help for me during the first 5 years that I used it.

[danny zubot]

Hey Greg, sorry to hear about your bad luck, there seams to be a lot going around lately. Let me know if there is anything I can help with. When you get your RO/Di unit, plan on a very large water change ASAP.

[Chad]

I've been considering getting out of the hobby as well.. A lot of other priorities and with this algae I have been fighting.. well it gets to be a real downer.. I don't think I have bought a coral in a good couple of months. Except for maybe 1 or 2 that I lost and really wanted back. But otherwise.. I have stayed away from corals altogther until I get this tank back up to par.

[reeferaddict]

I fight through these bouts of "depression" every year as well, but I just can't give it up. My plans for this hobby extend YEARS into the future, and I use that as a goal to keep it up. I had a back injury earlier this year that forced me to do minimal maintenance for close to 6 weeks, and by then I just wanted to add a bucket of bleach because things were so bad. Almost all of my LPS were wasting away, a couple of my favourite acros RTN'd, and my most prized frag that was growing to beat the band fell into an anemone and by the time I found it was pure white... :twised:

After contemplating the future, I decided to keep it going. My LPS are recovering, and last week I stuck to the original plan and got rid of most of my softies, tore down my 72 and amalgamated the rock and leftover livestock all into my 135. Wow! Now I have a tank that looks similar to one of the show tanks I saw that originally got me hooked. It's not perfect by any means, but amazing how a little rearranging can rekindle one's interest. Now I too am planning for a bigger tank. This won't happen for a year or two, but the thought process and challenge of setting up a new system to correct the shortfalls of my current one keeps me excited.

Here's what really helped me refocus:
In mulling it over with my girlfriend, she simply looked at me and said, "What will you do if you DON'T have a tank to care for?" All along I had thought she'd be thrilled to get rid of all this stuff, but she's so awesome, she'll support anything that brings me satisfaction and happiness.

Now I just have to figure out a way to break the news to her about the bigger tank... hehe... :mrgreen:

Keep your chin up and move forward my friend. I bet your friends come over and are in awe of your tank, I am... nice job. Do whatever it takes to get your mind wrapped around this hobby again and get back on it. Talent like yours should not go to waste. :smile:

[midgetwaiter]

When I started my current job last winter I decided that my life was going to be much too complicated to maintain the all the reptiles I had so I gave most of them away. I found that I more or less immediately filled this time with a renewed interest in my fish and corals. The dishes still stack up till Saturday. :)

My initial plan with the reef tank was to setup something small, nice and simple, keep maybe less difficult animals but keep them very well. Then I decided to I wanted a sump and all the powerheads in there were causing some heat issues etc. In the end I found myself with a rebuilt system with every "big tank" goody I could think of jammed into a 20. This was working well and so I figured, I can probably keep a clam and add some different fish and... The simple thing went out the window, whole progression took about 3 months. Then I had my series of screwups I've been complaining about all week. I'm going to try simple again, 3 fish and some soft corals, period.

Maybe that's the kind of thing you could consider. Your tank is very impressive but you are having trouble keeping it like you want to so why not get rid of some of the finicky livestock? It may not seem like it would be as satisfying to do easier stuff but I think you could make up for it with the knowledge that you do it very well. Hopefully this would be less demanding.

Just an idea.

[danny zubot]

That other thread which delt with the "reef gods" sure did a number on me. I remember reading it saying to myself... "self, I haven't had any issues with my tank for a while". Then BAM! my skimmer pump dies two days later. Its always something with this hobby! But you have to laugh it off because you only live once, and what better way to spend thousands and thousands of dollars.:lol:

[BMW Rider]

This can be a frustrating pastime. I too have wondered if it is worth continuing at times when things are not looking ideal. I had a real algae problem for a while, but with some phosphate remover and lots of manual removal, I've got it 95% beat. I also had my acros showing some tissue recession recently. The cause was a re-apperance of the red bugs despite having treated all my new acros fro them. I suspect that I must have had them on my original colony as well as it was the only one that was never treated prior to placement in the tank. I pulled them all and retreated, leaving them in qt for two weeks to ensure none remained in the main tank. Hopefully they are gone. So far the acros all look to be improving in colour and health.

I find it much harder during the summer months to look after the tank since I really want to be travelling on my bike more. I want my tanks to be able to be self sufficient for at least a week without care, but its hard to plan an extended trip and not wonder if I'll come home to a disaster. I am planning to get a controller and some back up power supplies eventually to add some peace of mind, but I need to get the budget for them first.

There is no shame in downsizing if that is what you need to do for the time being. If a total shut down is what it takes, while sad, it may be the better choice rather than just letting it degrade to the point where it is all lost. You can keep all your equipment and restart when things are more accomodating. It is a hard choice though once you have invested so much into it, both time and money. For noiw though, try to figure out the cause of the decline first, then choose a course of action to deal; with it. The RO/DI is a good first step.

[Delphinus]

Seems crazy to sell it off only to have to go buy new stuff when it's done, especially considering I can fill the new tank with what I have. I need to figure out how to store my corals while I setup and aquascape the new tank.
Speaking as someone who has wrestled with this very question.. here are my thoughts.

If the system is having problems, keeping the corals is only risking losing them altogether. I ended up selling some, but keeping some that I really wanted to keep. Guess what - they died, but the ones I sold off are still out there. Had I sold them all, those others would be around still. Having them "out there" increases their odds of sticking around. It's more important that these things live, than it is that they live "in our tanks."

I do understand the dilemma though. Sometimes things are rare and hard to come by. The way around this is, keep frags. This has benefits on several levels. 1) We spread the wealth throughout the hobby. 2) With more frags floating around, the odds that pieces will survive are greater. 3) It's way more fun watching a little coral grow into a bigger coral, than it is to have a showpiece coral (or several showpiece corals).

I don't want to be mean here, but I am going to be a bit blunt (sorry). But, your system is PACKED. As corals grow, they shade out their lower portions and block out portions of flow. Thus they're almost self-defeating in a closed system as they get bigger.

Whatever you're most comfortable with is your decision of course, but if it were me, I'd seriously consider the fragging option.

[untamed]

I had to move my tank recently. I fragged everything and distributed as many as I could before the move. I was concerned that I might lose them all during the move, and wanted to ensure they had a chance.

Fortunately for me, everything survived.

[OCDP]

I think once you invest in an RO/DI unit, a lot of problems may start to go away. I actually couldn't believe you were using tap water. I use it too, but I finally got myself an RO/DI . If I had a tank of that size with that many acros, I would have RO/DI without a doubt. I think it's a big cause to your SPS problems. I can keep SPS fairly well in a 20g with tap water, so I am looking forward to the results with using RO/DI water. At this point in the game with that much money invested in livestock, your doing yourself an enormous favour by adding an RO/DI system.

Good luck !! Hope you stick around... that's one heck of a tank.

[Snappy]

I have decided to keep on with it and move forward with my upgrade plans. I went out and bought a RODI unit today. I also picked up a few other goodies to make my life easier that can be easily adapted to the new setup once it gets rolling.

Tony, I know my tank is a bit on the full side which is why I want to upgrade. By adding in another approx 250 gallons of water and more than doubling the present lighting I believe that what I have would be very sustainable with room for them to grow as well.
I am more than happy to do some fragging as some pieces need to be or they are toast anyway. I just need to figure out what to do with them.

Thanks to all for your thoughts.
I guess all I ready needed was a kick in the pants pep talk.:biggrin:
Where there is a will there is a way, and as it happens I have the will.
Thanks again,

[christyf5]

Thank god for the kick in the pants pep talk to keep you going eh Greg? :wink:

Good luck and keep us posted on the progress of your tank with RODI. I think you'll be happy with your decision to get one :biggrin:

[Joe Reefer]

I am more than happy to do some fragging as some pieces need to be or they are toast anyway. I just need to figure out what to do with them.
I would be happy to help you out.:mrgreen:

[TheReefGeek]

I would be happy to help you out.:mrgreen:

Ooh, Ooh, pick me, pick me! :)

You have gotten me up and working on my reef some too! I am setting up a 50g tank in my fishroom right now, and plumbing it into my sump. Not sure if it will be a grow out tank, or nudibranch aiptasia treating tank, I need both!

Start a new thread on your tank upgrade so we can follow along too.

[muck]

WooHoo.. Greg's not leavin' us.
Give me a call next time you are in E-Town. :wink:

[danny zubot]

I am more than happy to do some fragging as some pieces need to be or they are toast anyway. I just need to figure out what to do with them.


Should I bring over my dremmel?:mrgreen:

Seriously though, good to know that you have the RODi on the way. Is a calcium reactor on you list of goodies as well? I've been pondering one on my 80 gallon system, and I don't know how one can do without with anything bigger.

[OCDP]

Yup, I'd help out with some of those frags as well :wink:

Glad your sticking around! :)

[Snappy]

Hooked up the RO unit last night and did a water change this morning.

Danny, a calcium reactor is in the cards but I am waiting for the new setup.

[christyf5]

Danny, a calcium reactor is in the cards but I am waiting for the new setup.

You have a tank that looks like that without a ca reactor?? :eek: Wow that IS impressive!!! :biggrin:

[Snappy]

You have a tank that looks like that without a ca reactor?? :eek: Wow that IS impressive!!! :biggrin:
thanks,
I dose pretty heavy, in fact I am sure I have likely spent more on supplements in the last year than the cost of a reactor.:redface:

[christyf5]

Heh, I bought some of that Kent Liquid Reactor stuff when I started out dosing. I think I lasted about a week doing the whole dosing thing before throwing in the towel and calling Wendell to get a reactor.:biggrin: