Jumping In

[Slick Fork]

Hi there,

I've decided to take the plunge and try out the salty side of things and have am in the planning/aquisition stage for a 10 gallon Nano tank. The tank that I'm envisioning will have about 15 lbs of Live Rock, about 2" of Pool Filter Sand (I know, not as good as "real" sand but a guy can't beat the price!). I've got a small HOB filter (aquaclear mini or similar) that I'm planning to fill with LR rubble, heater of course, and for lighting I'll be swapping out the bulbs on an el-cheapo incandescent hood for a couple of 20 or 25 watt CF bulbs. I've also got a 24" t-12 fixture hanging around that I could probably jerry rig for use as actinic lighting while the 2 cf's will be daylight bulbs (this way to I can use seperate timers!). I'll also grab a power head but am unsure as to what sort of flow rate I should be looking for in a 10G.

I plan on ordering one of those "custodian packages" from JL aquatics with the crabs/snails etc. to use as my clean-up crew!

I know I should be figuring out what I want to keep and build a system around that, however I'm on a rather small budget and have to make do with what I've got or can acquire relatively cheaply.

Looking at my planned setup, have I missed anything? I know I'll need some incidental stuff like a Hydrometer etc. but I think I have most of the bases covered.

Question 2, with the lights I will have, what are some of the coral's/sponges etc that you guys would recommend keeping? I'm leary of taking the salesman's advice when they say "Oh yeah, these'll do fine under any conditions!!" Oh, and when I go to grab my live rock, what should I be looking for?

Question 3, what sort of fish will do well and be easy to please for a newbie into the salt world (I've been running a very successful planted FW tank but this seems a little more intimidating for some reason!) What sort of fish have you guys enjoyed and which ones would you recommend a guy stays away from!

My plan for starting out is to get the tank up and running for a day or two, grab some uncured/partially live rock (for the cycle). After a couple of weeks I'll order the clean-up crew and then what? Can I start adding corals as soon as I have no nitrates or should I wait? Should the fish go in before the corals or vice versa?

It seems as soon as I get one aspect settled, four or five new questions pop into my head!!

Thanks in advance for the replies!

Cheers

[TheReefGeek]

I would go with aragonite over pool sand. Your tank is so small, the cost should not be inhibitive. If it is, this is not the hobby for you.

If you are using CF lighitng, keeping softies (mushrooms, leathers, colts, xenia, etc) are good starters. If you are really successfull you could try some LPS like fogspawn, candy canes, torch, but those really should have more light.

Easy fish for a small tank are gobies, and clowns. In a 10g don't go with more than a couple. Maybe a pair of clown, and a small clown goby to start.

You have to let your tank cycle, then you can add corals at whatever rate you want. Fish you should add more slowly, one a week maybe.

Dont bother with the JL cleaner crew pack, IMO. You would do better selecting your own. And I would stay away from hermits if I were you, they end up taking down snails, IME. Very fun to watch hermits though, and in a 10g maybe not such a big deal, go with a couple scarlet hermits, they have been the least aggresive for me.

Stay on top of water changes if you arent using a skimmer.

[Flusher]

The tank that I'm envisioning will have about 15 lbs of Live Rock, about 2" of Pool Filter Sand (I know, not as good as "real" sand but a guy can't beat the price!).

That's a good amount of rock, but I highly recommend investing in aragonite. It supports micro-organisms better and I think it helps buffer the water.

I've got a small HOB filter (aquaclear mini or similar) that I'm planning to fill with LR rubble

I've used those in my nanos. They do the job.

Invest in a decent heater that keeps the water temperature as stable as possible. No sense losing hundreds of dollars of livestock trying to save $20 on a heater.

for lighting I'll be swapping out the bulbs on an el-cheapo incandescent hood for a couple of 20 or 25 watt CF bulbs.

Try the Coralife 50/50 bulbs. Two 10W or 20W bulbs will be good on a 10 gallon tank. I'm pretty sure they screw into incandescent canopies.

I'm on a rather small budget and have to make do with what I've got or can acquire relatively cheaply.

:lol: Been there. Once you get more into it, you'll probably start upgrading components.

Looking at my planned setup, have I missed anything? I know I'll need some incidental stuff like a Hydrometer etc. but I think I have most of the bases covered.

Sounds like a good start. I highly recommend a refractometer over a hydrometer, though. You could look into getting a skimmer, too. A HOB skimmer might take away the need for another powerhead to circulate the water.

Question 2, with the lights I will have, what are some of the coral's/sponges etc that you guys would recommend keeping?

With Coralife 50/50s, I have zoas, mushrooms, riccordea, some LPS, button polyps, and anthelia growing nicely.

Question 3, what sort of fish will do well and be easy to please for a newbie into the salt world

I've got two Occelaris Clownfish in my 13 gallon tank. I love 'em.

My plan for starting out is...

Your plan sounds good. I'd wait a month or two before adding corals, but you can add fish as soon as the tank is cycled.

HTH
________
SIDE EFFECTS OF WELLBUTRIN (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

[mark]

Might find it a little more difficult starting the hobby with a small tank but good luck with the nano. Go slow.

[Flusher]

Here's an old picture of my 13 gallon nano. I "Photoshopped" two images together. The left side is lit by household mini-CF bulbs (the spiral type). The right side is either entirely or just partly lit by the Coralife 50/50s. (I took the picture a long time ago - I can't remember the bulb configuration. I do know that there were three bulbs, though.)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/Flusher/5050.jpg

You can see quite a colour difference. The 50/50s are worth the money. I now have four of them lighting up my 13 gallon tank, and two on my 6 gallon tank (all are the 20W bulbs). I love these bulbs. :mrgreen:
________
Huge Tits live (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/big-tits/)

[Slick Fork]

Thanks for all the replies so far and keep 'em coming!

I checked out some Aragonite Sand and the price wasn't as bad as I thought I should be (I think the small 15lb bag should be lots but I can play that by ear) and since everybody seems to have a pretty strong opinion on the benefits I'll go that route.

I'm playing around with some ideas on a simple DIY skimmer made from parts I already have lying around. Once I have something I'll post it for everybody to OOH and AAAAH over! So that will bring my total filtration to 1 aquaclear Mini HOB filled with LR rubble, 1 DIY Skimmer, and a 150 GPH powerhead. I think this should be lots, how about you guys?

I'm picking up the tank tommorow and then I'm gone for vacation for a couple of weeks so I don't think I'll have any real progress until I get back. I played around with the idea of setting it up with the liverock in there and just letting it sit and cycle until I get back, but without any top off device to maintain the proper salinity I think I'll just wait. Don't want to go and blow 120 on LR just to have it killed because I wasn't around to keep things topped off!

Flusher: You mentioned getting a refractometer over a hydrometer, I'm not entirely sure what the difference is, do they not both measure gravity and salinity? Or am I thinking of something else!

As far as the path to upgrading components, this is tank will be a bit of an experiment in convincing my wife that a large salt water tank would be a good thing! Part of the reason I'm trying to keep a lot of the hardware costs down are once I can upgrade to a bigger tank and transfer my livestock over, the 10 gallon is going to turn into a Q tank or maybe even a sump/regugium for my 33 gallon!

Cheers

[Flusher]

Flusher: You mentioned getting a refractometer over a hydrometer, I'm not entirely sure what the difference is, do they not both measure gravity and salinity? Or am I thinking of something else!

They both do the same thing, just in different ways. Refractometers are far more reliable. There are a few types of hydrometers, but they just don't compare in reliability.

this is tank will be a bit of an experiment in convincing my wife that a large salt water tank would be a good thing!

Ah, I see. Ha ha. Let her pick out the fish, then. :wink:

Here's a decent list of fish that'll fit in a small tank:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=2124

Avoid the Court Jester and Hector's Gobies, though. They feed a lot like Mandarin Gobies, and aren't that easy to take care of...

Firefish are cool. I'd get one if I had room. I'm happy with my two Occelaris clowns, though.
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Slick Fork]

Just thought I'd give an update,

Got my lighting figured out the other day. I opted for a DIY style lighting system and got it done fairly cheaply. I had a 24" 20w 18000K fixture sitting around from when I upgraded my freshwater to t-5 lighting so I decided to try and make use of that.

I ran out to the hardware store and bought a chunk of 1x8 lumber, a galvanized steel stove-pipe, found an 18" fluorescent fixture on sale for $10 and bought some phillips 27watt compact fluorescent screw in bulbs (6500K colour) Total bucks spent at the hardware store.....$45 Then off to petsmart where I grabbed a new t-8 actinic bulb for the 18" lamp, came home and put it all together.

Here's what it looks like (quick sketch, not to scale)

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/LightSchematic.jpg

The ducting I cut in half and screwed on to the bottom of the 1x8, It was already sort of parabolic so all I had to do was bend it to the 10" wide I need for the tank, the 2 fluorescent fixtures I ripped apart and mounted the ballasts and starters to the top of the new hood to get them out of the way and away from the heat. This thing is frickin bright, I filled the tank with water and set this thing on top and am very very pleased with the results. I hope to be able to have most coral's now as I have 89 watts going into this little 10 gallon setup (and that's not considering the "actual light" being produced by those power compact screw-in bulbs). Total cost for the fixture $58

I'm gone for holidays tommorow so this is as far as I'll get before July probably (lots of time to think up a DIY skimmer!)

Cheers

[Flusher]

Nice DIY lights. Can you post some picts of it? I'd love to see how well that lights up your tank.
________
IOLITE VAPORIZER MOISTURE CONDENSER (http://www.vaporshop.com)

[prosnow]

go for the refractormeter they are way more acurate, which is very important especially in a nano,

oh, personally i dont think that will be enough flow, i have 2 canister filters rated @ 300 gph in my 18 gal, and theres noooo way thats even enough flow, looking for a sieo 620 to drop in there as well,

[Slick Fork]

Hi again,

Got back from Holidays last week and made it in to Gold's today to pick up my Live Rock and a few other goodies (great people at the store there, first time I'd really spent any time there!), got the tank set up tonight and it looks good so far! I'll try to post some pic's tommorow!

[prosnow]

looking fwd to seeing some pics

[Midknight]

Hey S;ick,

Here is what I did with my 10, built on a budget.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=831443&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[Slick Fork]

Ok, as promised here are some shots.

A couple of notes, it's still dusty in there because I just finished rearranging the rocks again. I know the glass is dirty and apologize in advance, I'm a terrible digital photographer still so bear with me!

What you're looking at is my ten gallon, with about 16lbs of live rock, an aquaclear mini filter, an eheim 1140 (300gph) powerhead, heater, and DIY light set. Constructive criticism is appreciated so let me know what you think!

So here are the lights:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/lights.jpg
Turned On
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/lightson.jpg
It's so bright the camera has trouble until I zoom in:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/alllitup.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/wholetank.jpg
Just the actinic
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/actiniccloseup.jpg

So, what do you guys think? Any suggestions? A big thanks again to the guy at Gold's that helped me out yesterday, didn't catch his name but I sure appreciated all the help and advice!

[Flusher]

I think that tank will look pretty cool once the substrate settles. Invest in a $10 digital thermometer. They're worth it.
________
Blonde Masturbating (http://www.****tube.com/categories/319/masturbating/videos/1)

[TheReefGeek]

I would stack up some of the smaller pieces of live rock, try to make an arch, and open up some sand space in the front.

[muck]

Personally I like the rock work as it is now.

Just out of curiousity... How come you went with 1 - 24" bulb and 1 - 18" ?

[Slick Fork]

The reason behind the different bulbs is easy, it's what I had handy! The 24" was from my 33 planted tanks original hood and the 18" was dissected out of a $12 home-hardware fixture I had lying around!

Now that all the dust has settled, and I can see just how bright it is I am really quite pleased. I get a "shimmer" from this canopy that is very similar to the effect I've seen from Halide lighting. Not quite as nice, but awful damn close for a $30 hood!

The jury is still out on the rock work, I like having the big piece in the middle and I'm pretty sure that I want that piece at the bottom left to stay in the front, I think I'll try something else though with the stuff on the right!

My next project with this tank will be to set up a backpack style sump. I can grab a plasticy garbage can thing with about a 5 gallon capacity that will fit perfectly (and out of sight) behind the tank, I'm going to set it up so a pump brings water out of the tank and into the can, which will then overflow out of the can and back into the display tank.

2 questions as far as my DIY reservoir/sump go, should I bother filling it with anything other than water and possibly some live rock? It will be a fairly verticle (8Wx10Lx12H) fixture without any light other than ambient light from the room (as planned now, but that may change). My main concern is to add water capacity on the cheap (don't have to decorate it!) to mitigate any mistakes my SW inexperience are bound to create!

This thread has been a great help, keep the advice and replies going!

[Midknight]

Sounds like a perfect place for cheato. Slap a clamp on light with a PC bulb and you are off and running.

But don’t run too far, we might need you later.

[TheReefGeek]

Definately make it an add-on macro algae refugium instead of just additional water capactiy

[Slick Fork]

Just another update,

Made another trip down to the city the other day and picked up a few more pieces of live rock. Also got my trashcan sump set up bringing my total capacity up to 15 gallons. Here are a couple of shots I snapped quickly on my way to work this morning

The new layout of the tank:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/newrockactinic.jpg

A side view of the Sump:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/mysump.jpg

Now I just snapped these first thing this morning so all that's on are the actinics, but the lights haven't changed and you've already seen those!! I'm really pleased with some of the smaller chunks of rock I found, crawling with life, very lightweight and as you can see I could make some neat arch formations with them!

The trashcan sump is as easy as pie, I took all the pieces of LR I wasn't particlarly thrilled with out of the display and put them in the sump. In the top picture you can see I just mounted a PVC pipe in the side of it and siliconed it up real good, it just overflows back into the main tank as it fills up. I relocated the HOB filled with Live Rubble and the heater into the sump and the tube you see going from the sump to the main tank is actually connected to the HOB filter intake so it draws water from the display over the sump and into the HOB filter, which empties into the sump which empties back into the display!!

The water bottle you see sitting on the HOB will be reincarnated today as an auto topoff device, and the beer bottle in the background will soon be joined by several more as DIY projects are thirsty work.

My current conundrum is what to do as far as a more permanent mount for that light. I've considered hanging it, but I want to make sure that the tank is where I want it before I start putting holes in the ceiling. The other option would be to mount it to the stand (which is waiting on plywood skin before it's complete), the trouble I have with that though is it will be in the way if it's bolted on and I want to do something. Any ideas?

[TheReefGeek]

You should paint your background blue so you don't see the trashcan through the glass, will look cleaner.

[Midknight]

Hey Slick,

If you want to hang it try mounting it on the wall with the wall bracket setup. Then you can used the shelf to put your ATO on.

Dan

[Slick Fork]

Think I might be cycled already. Checked the parameters this morning and I got zero's across the board for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Is this possible with a tank that's only been up for a couple of weeks? I remember at this point in my freshwater cycle, ammonia and nitrites were through the roof and still going up so I'm quite surprised to see everything at zero right now.

Think I'll bring a water sample in somewhere before I buy anything though.

[Quagmire]

You seem pretty handy with DIY.For the light,maybe build a hood for it.The rock may have already been cycled when you got it,so only a small cycle in the tank from the bit of die off,from the trip home.Best to wait a while to make sure,and good idea getting you water tested at a store.Check out the Royal Grammas for a fish,colorfull (wifes like color ;) )and easy to care for.

[Midknight]

Hi Slick,
Here is what I was talking about with the wall method.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h209/Midknight3d/DSCN0589.jpg

Easily adjusted and built in shelves. :lol:

[Slick Fork]

I don't think a hood will work simply because of the size of the fixture, it is actually 4" wider then the tank so I think a hood would look silly. I like the wall mount idea Midnight, but with the backpack sump I've got going the back of the tank is about a foot from the wall already so I'd need one huge shelf!

I think what I'll do is just suspend if from the ceiling. Then I can push/tie it out of the way if I need to get into the tank.

With the parameter's I've got, I'm thinking about holding off on fish (just to be safe) but maybe adding a couple of inverts and maybe a coral (maybe a Riccordia or mushroom for starters) and see how things go for a little while. I want to add things slowly so that the smaller stuff gets a chance to establish before being actively hunted by anything bigger!

[Slick Fork]

What a sh@tty week.

Got my light fixture hung and that was all good and well. Decided to take my water down to Gold's on monday to confirm that I was cycled, readings of zero across the board, so I grabbed a toadstool coral and a star polyp.

Took those home and all was well, the coral's seemed to adjust beautifully to life in the new tank.

Yesterday I had to go back to Calgary and stopped in at Gold's again, picked up a pair of tank bred clownfish (I figured with 15 gallons of capacity I would be ok) and a new powerhead. Acclimitize the fish just like I did the coral's (put them in a bucket and drip my tank water in gradually, it took about half an hour before I put them in the tank) Installed the powerhead, added the fish, all was well and happy. I checked on them before I went to bed and everyone seemed fine.

Came home from work today, clownfish are both dead, coral's look like they're on the way out. Other residents of the tank seem fine (2 hermit crabs 2 snails and a conch). I have no idea what could've caused this, as I didn't change anything at all between monday and today other then adding the new fish and powerhead. My parameter's are all fine, Salinity is good, Temperature is good Like I said as well, my inverts are all fine, but the fish are dead (I stuck them in the freezer in case I can return them), and my Coral's are on their way out.

Of course, because it's thursday and Gold's is closed, I can't phone anybody and vent. This is the first time I've bought livestock from them and I'm really not impressed. Does anyone know if they have any sort of guarantee? I'm living about an hour out of the city so getting in before the weekend will be problematic.

I am really one unhappy camper right now, my coral's might still have a shot, does anyone have any idea what I should be looking for in order to give them a chance at recovery? Any help is appreciated

[TheReefGeek]

1/2 hour is minumum for acclimating I would say, I do it for 1 hour, slowly increasing the drip rate and emptying my container 1/3rd every once and a while.

The fish dieing might have polluted your tank before you found the fish, and your corals might be suffering a bit because of this.

How long did you leave the rock to cycle? Did you observe and chart an actual cycle of ammonia spike, then no ammonia, then nitrite spike, then no nitrite, then nitrates increasing?