No warning?

[OCDP]

After reading the zoanthid toxicity warning threads it made me think...

Why is it that the LFS's don't inform, or have papers up, something, anything... with information to zoanthid or any other coral poisoning? I'm not saying it's bad that they don't , and it's all their fault or anything like that. I am just wondering why there is no warning other than what we've seen online (and there's many of us who are unfamiliar with these resources)

Does it seem a little odd to any of you? Perhaps I am the only one, but it seems LFS's should inform, and online vendors should note the possible poisoning of zoanthids and any other corals. This would give people a great warning and I am sure they would take extra measures in being careful with the corals.

Anywhoo, just something that popped into my head... the only warnings I have seen are from what I have researched and found out online (RC and here) If it weren't for these sites, I'd have no clue. This wouldn't be such a big deal if zoanthids weren't so darn toxic. They can do a number on you from what I've read. No matter how low the risk, there is still risk, and my chances are as good as yours.. so , do you all think there should be some extra added "Warning" ???

[seashells]

Some of our LFS do have warnings posted. Let them know, it's a good idea.

[OCDP]

Well then! Good to hear there are warnings up. I guess I was thinking of Calgary LFS's in particular. I will ask or mention next time I'm in that they should put up a warning or just a note at very least near tanks with zoos in them... It is in the end, pretty dangerous stuff. Especially if your a newbie and your being very careless and not handling them with care, I'd assume your chance of becoming poisoned is greater? Anyhow.. good to hear that there are indeed warnings out there for some.

[Willow]

dude there is so much stuff in this hobby that could potentaly harm you where do you begin!

[OCDP]

I was talking in terms of livestock... yeah, we could go into the discussion of all the toxic fishies out there, etc.... and you could easily say "wheres the warning" ?

Anyways, I didn't want to start any kind of argument or debate. It was just a simple thought that came to mind. A warning would save a lot of grief, and would give reefkeepers both new and experienced a better understanding and without a doubt would handle these animals with much more care.

[mark]

Real world, liability drives a lot of practices. Maybe a LFS would not libel if someone was poisoned, therefore why put up a warning that could potentially cost a sale. Or maybe putting up a warning could be admitting they are aware of a potential hazard so why open that up.

[OCDP]

I guess in my mind when your potentially talking about someones life (or a dog's....) you'd think they'd forget dollars and start thinking logically. Nothing should prevent a sale if explained properly... wear gloves, be safe, handle with caution... all very simple things that IMO as a buyer, I'd be grateful for knowing. The risk is low, so if I was told this.. I don't think it would drive me away from buying it. I am being informed.. and that's what it's all about. Be safe, and you'll be A-OK :wink: That's all it takes.

[midgetwaiter]

IMO, my *Personal* opinion only, is that these potential issues are not at serious as you might think from reading places like RC and such. There have been and handful of specific incidents that start to look like a big problem because they are referenced multiple times.

Nobody really understands much about Zoanthid toxicity, same as most other toxic or potentially toxic marine animals. Bad or incomplete information can be more dangerous than no information in certain ways.

If you want a good example of this, look at what happens with reptiles and "salmonella". There has never been more than a handful of cases of transmission between reptiles and humans and most of the confirmed cases can be linked to reptiles being fed uncooked poultry. I overheard a girl at Petland warn a little girl about the potential for a Red Foot Tortoise to give her salmonella on Saturday, it's a joke.

It's also used by groups like PETA to discourage people from reptile ownership. This is the part that really concerns me. I can't imagine sitting in customs waiting for them to magically determine which corals in my shipment are potentially toxic. I'm sure that would be a disaster.

If anyone knows of some comprehensive information concerning zoa toxicity I'd like to read them.

[Pan]

After reading the zoanthid toxicity warning threads it made me think...

Why is it that the LFS's don't inform, or have papers up, something, anything... with information to zoanthid or any other coral poisoning? I'm not saying it's bad that they don't , and it's all their fault or anything like that. I am just wondering why there is no warning other than what we've seen online (and there's many of us who are unfamiliar with these resources)

Does it seem a little odd to any of you? Perhaps I am the only one, but it seems LFS's should inform, and online vendors should note the possible poisoning of zoanthids and any other corals. This would give people a great warning and I am sure they would take extra measures in being careful with the corals.

Anywhoo, just something that popped into my head... the only warnings I have seen are from what I have researched and found out online (RC and here) If it weren't for these sites, I'd have no clue. This wouldn't be such a big deal if zoanthids weren't so darn toxic. They can do a number on you from what I've read. No matter how low the risk, there is still risk, and my chances are as good as yours.. so , do you all think there should be some extra added "Warning" ???

I think they are assuming you know what your doing...ie not buying a big dog for a little apartment kinda thing...not saying it's right or wrong....plus they may just be lazy :)

[Chad]

just because your chances are small doesn't mean you should not be informed.

Sticking your hand in the tank opens up a world of infectious posibilities.

I see nothing wrong with a responsible employee providing legitimate information to potential buyers. These warnings are not there to scare people away, but to inform and teach proper handling and husbandry practices. When given in that context, it becomes very valuable information.

[Samw]

I don't wear gloves when I work on my tank. This weekend, I did a lot of work on the tank and I touched a lot of liverock and coral. Usually, I'll get a few allergic reactions from acros when I scrape them with my forearm. This time it happened again but I also felt some tingling on one finger (on the hand that I used to move liverock around). Later in the day, I had some tingling in my chest. I thought, "ah crap, something must have stung me". I sometimes get some tingling or feel a bit sick after I aquascape my tank (and I've read others do as well). Luckily, it only lasted 3/4 of a day before the tingling pain in my chest went away. Certainly, I was a bit anxious and thoughts of what am I going to do if this gets worse ran through my mind as I went to sleep.

[Quagmire]

Or maybe putting up a warning could be admitting they are aware of a potential hazard so why open that up.

My Father worked for the Court.This part reminded me of something he told me.He said if a dog owner has a sign saying Beware of Dog.It only means the owner is aware his dog may bite.If you're dumb enough to walk up to the fence and try to pet the dog,and get bitten.The owner might still be charged.

Not sure how it works with LFS,but maybe no warning is in thier best interest.

[OCDP]

I think Chad said it well, by no means am I saying that because there is no warning the LFS's are liable. That's definitely not what I'm getting at. I guess in short I'm hoping to get a "friendly heads up" posted so people have knowledge of potential dangers. But, when we're talking money , I can see why the LFS's wouldn't put them up.. I guess I'm trying to go in the opposite direction here... be friendly to your fellow reefers... put a little note up by the zoo's or something.. if you've explained properly and said it in a way so in the end the reefer is saying "just always wear gloves, and i'll be fine..." what's the big deal there? I wouldn't be chased away from buying them... I'd be thinking "damn, I'm sure glad I knew that...." Because that's probably what 99% of us said after reading the online articles. Not only is it good to wear gloves for zoanthids, but anything in the tank.. it's good to do in general. Not just for us, but all our corals... think of all the dirt and oils on our skin ..

[Snappy]

I guess in my mind when your potentially talking about someones life (or a dog's....) you'd think they'd forget dollars and start thinking logically. Nothing should prevent a sale if explained properly... wear gloves, be safe, handle with caution... all very simple things that IMO as a buyer, I'd be grateful for knowing. The risk is low, so if I was told this.. I don't think it would drive me away from buying it. I am being informed.. and that's what it's all about. Be safe, and you'll be A-OK :wink: That's all it takes.
I don't let my dog into my tank or handle my coral so I have never worried about that.

[OCDP]

I was referring to an article where a man's dog had gone into a rubbermaid container he had with zoos in them, licked them and then died. (in a nutshell)

I made the assumption most people have read that thread on RC. Sorry.

[MobyDick]

I Never wear gloves in the tank and for the last 7 years the worst i ever got was a rash from Bristle worms,I've handled many Coral and Zoa's and never been poisened!How does it happen?ANd i'm not being a smartA**

[EmilyB]

We assume that is what killed the dog, don't we....:wink:

I'd rather they didn't sell blue ring octopi personally.

As I've said before, I had a doctor check the world medical base, and the only palytoxin deaths were from injesting triggerfish.

Still, people have allergies, so one should use as much caution as possible.

[albert_dao]

Would it then be prudent for all LFS employess to educate their customers on the many dangers associated with using electical appliances around water? How about a warning everytime someone purchases a mandarin fish stating that it would be in their best interest not to lick their hands if they ever handle the fish? Maybe it would also lie on the shoulders of the employee to ensure that a customer not consider ingesting iodide supplements in case of accidental blood poisoning. While we're up to bat, mayhap it would also be the right thing to do to make sure that everyone washes their hands before and after putting them into the tank? How about skimmate from the protein skimmer? You better not have any exposed cuts in your hands while you're handling that stuff! Bad juju!