Tank Update

[AJ_77]

Hey guys, need some advice. Yes, again.

I haven't checked water parameters for 10 days - they weren't changing fast enough. But today is test day - because I remembered.

Day 26 Readings

Salinity: ~ 1.023 (average 2 cheap hydrometers)
Temp: 80 F
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: ~5 (those yellow shades are so close...)
pH: ~ 8.6

Coral ideas: moon, xenia, blue or red shrooms, toadstool or finger leather, colt, red brain, green button polyps.

Fish ideas: requisite pair of false percs, royal gramma, then ???

Inverts: pair cleaner shrimp.

Please give me your thoughts. Thanks guys, I respect your opinions above all else, for better or worse. :D smile.gif :rolleyes:

Alan

[Delphinus]

The numbers are looking goooood!

I keep my SG at 1.025. I prefer to keep things on the saltier side of the scale. It's just a subjective kind of thing ... but I feel that things do better in "slightly too salty" compared to in "slightly not salty enough." I can't really offer any concrete evidence to back up my claim ... like I said it's just a subjective kind of thing I've observed.

Hmmm. Also. Can I maybe try to steer you away from the blue mushrooms? I know they're cool at first but at the moment I just hate them. There is no other single organism that has caused so much havoc in my tank. Every single piece of rock in my 50 has a solid dozen to a few dozen of these on it.. and I started off with one. It was cool at first when they spread. But it has not been cool watching them do damage to my LPS and SPS! It's amazing -- I don't know how they do it, but anything they touch ... dies or gets badly damaged. I don't know what I'm going to do with the rock in my 50 -- none of it is going into my 75. I have a bad feeling my rocks are going to be giveaways at some point. And I won't let anyone with a serious reef take them -- they'll have to go to fish-only setups where lighting is minimal and there are no other polyps at risk. Who knows, maybe some coral-nipping fish will love them!

The rest of the plan sounds awesome. You're going to have a great setup soon, I just know it.

cheers!

[AJ_77]

Wow, thanks - scratch the shrooms off the list!

Should we advertise a frag swap for Tuesday? I'm hoping to be spoiled already thanks to Jon and yourself (are you still planning on bringing xenia as well?)

Another question: fish or corals first? If I know that there may be a few corals coming Tuesday, would it be unwise to add a pair of percs Saturday before?

Again, relying on your experience. My salinity reading, BTW, is 1.026 on the swingarm and 1.020 on the el-cheapo floating unit. Perhaps I'm closer to 1.025, which is my goal.

Thanks for the input.

Alan

[Delphinus]

I don't know if you saw my posts in the main forum about my feelings on swing-arm hydrometers ... I don't have 100% trust in them. Mind you, their error tends to be consistent, so if you know it's reading "0.003 low" then it's safe to assume that it's "consistently 0.003 low" so just add the 0.003 to the reading and THEN you're set.

Figuring out that error though is the hard part! You have to have a hydrometer you can compare to, whose values you trust as "100% correct."

I like the glass bomb types, even if they're cheap, because they go down to 1.000 -- so if I get a 1.000 reading on freshwater then I'm happy. Not a perfect validation, mind you, but better than no validation at all. My swing-arm type only goes down to 1.010 -- so I have no means to calibrate myself to it. Maybe there is another swing-arm type that does do down to 1.000, just not mine.

Maybe as a club project we should all bring our hydrometers! And see what kind of range of readings we get. It might be a real eye opener (or not ... but until we try we won't know!)

As for corals vs fish first .... In my 75, I seem to be putting my corals in there first. However I'm not sure if it matters one way or the other, but I think I'd wait about a week in between new additions, just in case you do spike your system. A few frags, though, shouldn't really spike the system, so I don't know if that would count.

[Tau2301]

Hi Alan, I agree with Tony that you can add fish or corals in any order. But it's the order in which you add you fish which matters most.

I wait two week betwen additions.

[Canadian Man]

I third that notion. Corals dont matter it's the fish that does.
So you sure you dont want my rock covered with shrooms ALAN? hmmmmm.

Numbers looking good for your tank. Cycling done!
Let the reefing begin.
I will bring my hydrometer to the meeting.
And some other goodies.

[Bob I]

Alan you might reconsider the Cleaner Shrimps right now. There appears to solid evidence that they like to eat your Bristleworms. There is a pst on Canreef that they do so. I am not sure if the guy was talking about Amboinensis , or Peppermints, but probably the first.

[AJ_77]

Has yours shown such tastes? Even if they snack on the odd worm, I still want 'em!

'Cause they're so purty!

I think they are one of the most appealing creatures available, and if I need to feed them now and agin, as mentioned in the aforementioned post, no biggie. Biodiversity NOW!

AJ :D

[Aquattro]

Originally posted by AJ_77:
Even if they snack on the odd worm, I still want 'em!

AJ :D <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Odd worm is not the problem!! I don't have a worm left in my tank!
If you're looking for biodiversity, skip the shrimp.

[Bob I]

Just passing it on old chap. The guy that posted said the shrimp had decimated his entire worm farm. As you have seen, my tank has a number of areas not accessible to the shrimp, so I am not really concerned. In addition my shrimp feeds right along with the fish even running around upside down on the surface to eat flake food. He is probably not hungry enough to go out a-hunting. tongue.gif

[AJ_77]

Brad:

Thanks for the input! Your plight has me rethinking the situation.

At the same time though, others posted to your thread to say that they had no such problem, and that they fed theirs to keep them in check.

Have you found your problem to be unique or extreme, by the feedback you received? I haven't honestly read a lot of information on the eating habits of these shrimp, but yours got my attention.

Alan

[Aquattro]

Alan, some people suggest feeding them a lot to keep them away from the worms. I honestly don't want to put that much food in my tank!! These things are pigs!!! I have found as many people have the problem as thosse that claim they don't, however, I suspect that they may just not know they have the problem.
According to Ron Shimek, shrimp are not a welcome addition to a DSB. I may set up a separate refugium for them though so they provide some food (larvae) for my corals.

[AJ_77]

Darn. They are so purty. ;)

Are any invertebrates a good bet?

Alan

[Delphinus]

I find that scarlet cleaners are moderately better behaved than peppermints. I have a pair of each in my 50 and if they are eating bristleworms then they certainly are not getting them all. I do find them to be pests if there is a animal that is having trouble eating quickly (i.e. bubble coral or open brain) because they steal the food before it's swallowed. Same thing with the yellow tang -- it's not enough that he gets the most food out of everyone in the tank, he must ensure that others do NOT get their fill, even if he doesn't eat the food himself (it's enough to pull it out of a corals mouth). Sigh ... scallions, the lot of them.

Every animal has some kind of impact. I guess at some point you have to decide with what you can live with and what you cannot live with .... fortunately you can have a refugium where you can let all the little creatures normally predated upon mercilessly live out their lives in there..

[AJ_77]

Good point, Tony, as usual. (Thanks.)

I suppose I need to focus some research on "low-impact" versus "high-impact" creatures. And, of course, they should be purty.

And of course you're right - I have a refugium! HA!

Alan ;)

[Tau2301]

Alan, IMHO I would get the Cleaner Shrimp, Blue Legged Hermits, and any other critter that you find interesting. What is the point of having a tank in you living room if there is nothing to look at and point out to your friends and neighbours.

You have a refugium, this is the place to nurture your pods, worms, etc. Everything in your main tank is supposed to represent nature at its finest – predators and prey.

The main thing about the artificial environment that you are trying create, are the food webs. This is where you are trying to combine various creatures to create your own mini circle of life.

[Aquattro]

Hmmm, the cleaner shrimps will eat all your DSB fauna, the blue legs will kill all your snails, you'll end up with algae problems and a bunch of brown sand. Maybe a green brittle star to top off the combo...it could eat your fish. Ahh...nature at it's finest.
Alan, by all means try the cleaner shrimps in your main tank. If you find you have the same problems as I, you can transfer them to your refugium. The worms will repopulate eventually. As far as I'm concerned, blue legged hermits are mantis food. They'll kill your snails(the ones you paid money for), they'll kill your scarlet hermits, and I've even heard of them eating corraline.
The best way to figure out what to do is try it yourself; all I am doing is relaying my experience with these critters.
Good luck!

[Bob I]

I agree with those who say "keep the shrimp" I for one have just set up my tank again, and have no desire to take it apart again to catch the shrimp. If the tank has to be wormless so be it, after all I have snails to stir up the sandbed. I once had a Flame Hawk I really liked, but sold him because he had a penchant for killing shrimps. Maybe I will get another one. :(

[Delphinus]

Wow, and I thought I've had bad luck.

I don't know how else to respond to that, Reef_Raf. I have all of the above and nowhere near those kind of problems. Now with that said, I do have a mistrust of anything that has claws, shrimp or crab, generally speaking. When you get down to it, none of them are "nice" and restrict themselves to only algae. But every animal has an impact: for some I choose to take the good with the bad. Hermits are still awesome janitors cleaning up leftover food and whatnot. ... In my 50g I have three fish, several dozen hermits, several dozen snails, two cleaner shrimp, one peppermint shrimp, and several thousand brittle stars, several thousand worms, and countless pods of various shapes forms and sizes. The only real downside to the crustaceans, I have found, is that I can't beat the shrimp away from my open brain when I am trying to feed it. I have to sit there and wait while it eats and shoo them away until the food is gone, which takes usually a good half-hour. And I admit that this process gets old real quick ... but ... I don't think I'd ever get rid of the shrimp. There are reasons they're in the tank, and they fulfil those reasons. If for nothing else, they spawn like nuts and I have a good steady supply of planktonic food for everyone else. But the whatever the effects ... If I didn't want them I wouldn't have them. They are a purdy thing to look at and people come over and say "oooh neat."
I think it depends on what your goals are. If a person's intent is to have a minimally bioloaded SPS tank, then yeah, stay away from the fish and the crustaceans. But in a mixed tank, different bag of tricks.

As you say, maybe the thing to do is try it, and then see how it goes. If it works out then great, if not, then regroup.

cheers :D

[Aquattro]

Tony, I haven't got all those problems (yet), but that is a typical scenario. I also have hermits, but choose to keep only scarlets. They seem to be reasonably peaceful. I agree that shrimp provide food and therefore I may just move them to the sump for now. I believe that the DSB is a very important part to filtration, and therefore feel that anything eating my critters is bad. Again, other's mileage may vary. Like I said, no harm in trying. I may have really bad individuals in my tank.
Where did you get the brittle stars? Hitchikers? I'd love to get some of those. I have one (I think), but it could be a while before it becomes two!

[AJ_77]

Recipe for Brittle Star babies:

Get a generous donation of halimeda from Tony. ;)
Plant in tank.
Watch the party.

I must say at this point that the response to this matter has exceeded my expectations. I will succeed in this hobby because of you all.

Many thanks,

Alan smile.gif

(I'm going to try the shrimps. :D )

[Dez]

Tony,

I wouldn't mind some of your blue mushroom infested rock because I have an empty 42 gallon tank that's been cycling for almost 3 weeks now. It's almost ready, I got the algae bloom and I'm going to test it soon. When are you in town next? You could get a pulsing xenia frag. I finally fragged my pulsing xenia and it attached within 2 days!!!! woo-hooo...so excited and they are still pulsing. My mother colony is healing perfectly. I fragged some yellow tree coral too...I could give you hairy green mushrooms for your mushroom rock...they haven't infested my tank.

Alan,
you are ready for corals now...yeah!!! congrats. You'll have to make an Edmonton visit sometime and I'll have to let you try some of the frags that I have. I still haven't made it to Calgary yet. Maybe mother's day to visit my mom ,and mom-in-law..

keep the reeefing happy!!!! I'm having lunch with Stircrazy from BC today smile.gif wheeeee

des

[AJ_77]

Des - is that the famous Pulsing Pink Xenia? Glad to hear yours is doing well for you. I've read of a "nicer" pulsing, slow-growing xenia from Fiji that is as much white as pink. Something like yours? If yes, then I am now officialy covetious.

Mother's Day in Calgary - is that a sideshow to Springtime in Alberta? If you do come, please give me a buzz!

If you see Tony in Edmonton soon, maybe a tiny frag for me would hide in his luggage too. :D

I'm sure I could reciprocate some day. smile.gif

Alan

[Dez]

Alan...It is a pulsing pink xenia...of what species I am not sure....but it sure looks cool as it opens and closes, sort of mesmorizing...(Bob, if you're reading this...don't correct my spelling 'cause I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the greatest speller...LOL). If I do come on mother's day, maybe I can bring some frags and drop them off at Eli's. I'll give you a buzz, but family sure comes first before fish...he he (I hope that all your wives, those who are reading, are happy). I won't bring many frags because I am still waiting to see how certain frags attach. I could bring some unattached frags though...and let you guys try the attaching yourselves.. Anyway...It's all an experiment to me..

des

[ 03 May 2002, 10:07: Message edited by: Dez ]

[Bob I]

Ha Ha Ha I caught Alan. COVETIOUS?? Perhaps lose the "I" ? :D :D

[AJ_77]

Bob, I'm disappointed - check out the word immediately before as well. "Officialy??"

You missed a double word score, my friend. ;)

[Bob I]

I accept the slap on the wrist. I do not, however, proofread all posts. I only seem to catch those which jump out at me. My campaign usually restricts itself to FLOURESCENT, or FLORECENT, and of course DEFINATLY, and its variations. :D :D