A group order proposal

[Delphinus]

Ok. We've been talking about getting snails and stuff. I was just speaking to saltwaterconnection and he has a couple of items I want to purchase (I don't really have the $$$, but let's not go there). Not snails, but some other things, some coral, etc. But I know most of us are looking for snails so I asked when he was expecting any snails in and he mentioned that later next week he will be receiving a shipment.

So ... I see a group order possibility. Who's in for snails for next week?

As far as how we should organize this -- what I suggest is this: Anyone who is interested in seeing what Jayson has should contact him for availability and pricing etc. If you want anything, then you would tell him and you would tell him that it's part of the "Calgary reef club group order." We'll organize this as a single purchase and probably get a single invoice, and one of us will have to volunteer to be the "purchaser" (probably me since it's me who's righting this write now... :D ;) tongue.gif :rolleyes: :cool: :D ) ... (but hey if someone else has a burning desire that's cool too) and that person will be on the hook to collect the $$$ and send it along to Winnipeg. That person picks it up from the airport and calls everyone else and says "OK come get your stuff!". So delivery would have to be on a day that everyone is available.

Want to take a vote or anything?

PS. There is one, tiny, itty-bitty thing ... and that is that I have to go to Edmonton for a few days next week (man, I hate working for a living). The problem with this project I'm working on is that I never know what they need of me until the very last minute, so my schedule is always up in the air. So we're probably looking at maybe the end of next week, since the beginning part of the week is totally shot for me. Ah, the longer I have to beg ... er, inform the boss of a new tank purchase, the better, anyways. :D

[AJ_77]

Tony:
I would take 10 each of Astrea, Cerith and Margarita snails.
If there is something else anyone found indispensable during initial tank phases, please let me know. smile.gif

Is the prime benefit here the savings on shipping? Will he tell you a grand shipping total so we can see the benefit? Just curious - his site isn't nearly as informative as J&L's.

And his prices aren't as competitive.

Cheers,
Alan

[ 05 April 2002, 23:07: Message edited by: AJ_77 ]

[Bob I]

I am in the market for 7 Margarita, 7 Nassarius, and 5 Astrea snails. I am also in the process of buying that bulb, so it could be part of that shipment. Next week I am on early shift, so I am off in the afternoon. If we get on with it we could have it done next week, and I would pick it up.
Bob
BTW I have looked at the J&L site, and things are definatly smile.gif (for Jon) less expensive on average 30 cents for snails, and $11.00 for my bulb. I am emailing them about shipping costs. I know from SW connection the order goes to the airport, and there is a box charge.

[ 06 April 2002, 08:40: Message edited by: Bob Ipema ]

[Delphinus]

Alan the shipping prices are Air Canada. When I have purchased stuff in the past the shipping has come to anywhere from $25 to $40. Basically yes when the order is put together he'll know the box size and weight and should be able to give a shipping price.

Bob thanks for the offer. Basically I think we can figure this out as the time draws nearer. What is absolutely imperative is that the order comes in at a time that everybody is available. We could even arrange to meet at the airport and divy out there, or meet at say Bob's or Alan's place since you guys are in the north and thus closer to the airport. Or whatever. Whatever is easiest.

I've been buying from Jayson for about 3 years. Basically I've been happy with stuff I've gotten from him, and I wouldn't steer anyone away from him. I'm not sure what to say about the competitiveness -- I always thought the prices were competitive (to within a couple dollars anyways). I guess once you've found a trusted source it doesn't bother you if you pay a little more here and there, so long as you know it's being made up in other places. He's also taken a lot of time to answer any questions I have (and I tend to have a lot), and for that I'm very appreciative. Hope this helps.

[ 06 April 2002, 09:01: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[Bob I]

I do not want to get into a long conversation about pros and cons. I will go with whatever you guys want, but I think we can do better with J&L. Tony, if you are ordering dry goods, there is no shipping cost if we are over $200.00. My bulb is 129.95, or around $125.00 if I hold them to their promise to beat the competition by 10%. If we can add another $75.00 we pay no shipping on a dry goods order.

[spikehs]

I'll be in, if jayson can get some fighting conches.

[Bob I]

Okay Sean, I hope we can get it together, and stop talking, and start doing. We keep seeing proposals, but there are always people who want to change things (myself included). I hope this time it will happen. :eek: :rolleyes:

[ 06 April 2002, 18:47: Message edited by: Bob Ipema ]

[AJ_77]

Bob:
I may be hesitant because my tank is 1 day old. Kim was over this evening for his bag of LS, and he recommended waiting at LEAST a week before introducing snails.

I don't want to stress the critters more than necessary, but I do need some snails soon...

AJ

[Canadian Man]

Ohhh Alan how did the sand transfer go.
How does it look?

[AJ_77]

Nice sand, lots of it. Got enough left for a nano.

Tank is murky.

Kim didn't like my aquascaping. :(
(But he may make me a tiny cruise ship, for realism. smile.gif )

You still free tomorrow, or evening-ish?

Cheers,
AJ

[Canadian Man]

Nano???????
work on getting a tank first! :D :D
:( Not free tommorow.
got sucked into working at the outdoor show tommorow at out Psycopath(aka.cyclepath)
booth. So I said well that's ok I will still be free in the evening but of course pug_girl planned us to go to her dad's for dinner.
sounds like I am avoiding helping you eh?
well i'm not just having a busy week that's all.
but wednesday is still good for me.

[Delphinus]

Hey there guys..

Ok, before we go to far into the topic of choosing a vendor, the bottom line for me is that saltwaterconnection is holding some livestock for me. I will be ordering this regardless. So if anyone else wants anything from there, here's a good chance to save a tiny bit on shipping.

Bob, I'm not so sure I'm hot on the idea of pooling a dry goods order with a livestock order. The problem for me is how to divvy up the cost of shipping while still having it end up the most economical solution for everyone (almost a classic Nash equilibrium question). For example it costs $6.50 to mail that bulb from Winnipeg to Calgary. If it costs $40 to put a box on a plane to Calgary and three people order stuff with the totals being $125 for person A who buys livestock, $30 for person B who buys livestock, and $125 for person C who buys dry goods only, then person B ends up paying $4.30 for shipping and persons A and C end up paying $17.85 for shipping, which means person B would have been better off just having the drygoods posted to him, and thus has essentially ended up unfairly subsidizing the shipping on the rest of the order. Basically my philosophy on mail-order is this: unless the need is urgent, dry goods should take the cheapest route, and livestock should take the fastest route which invariably is not the cheapest route. "I dunno" if that works for everyone but that's what works for me. So at the moment you're still better off going this on your own.

So. With all this said, is anyone still interested in pooling a livestock order with me? Let me know.

Alan, if you're still interested, maybe we can arrange to have the stuff delivered next week, which would meet (albeit barely) your one-week minimum.

Sean, I'm not sure what fighting conches are or if Jayson even has them .. but I will ask and get back to you.

cheers folks!

PS. One hour less sleep tonight? Oh the cruelty of daylight savings!!!!

[AJ_77]

Tony:
J&L advises waiting post-cycle to dump in snails, and nitrates < 10. But I have baby snails now (mind you, they're trying to make a break for it.)
smile.gif
Kim I think said a week minimum, after the ammonia spike subsides. All that to say I don't know what to do. I do not want to be buying these twice! I mean, kill them...

(I've got mama & papa bristleworm churning about tonight also - thought I chopped them in half with my scoop today. There seems to be a decent amount of life that survived. Very nice.)

So when do I have to decide? Tomorrow? Could I get some more advice from those who've done this before?

Thanks,
Alan smile.gif

[Bob I]

Okay Tony, from what I have seen it costs around $45.00 per box to ship things to Calgary. So to make it worthwhile we need around four people to make a group order worthwhile. You would still pay around the same amount per snail you would pay if you go to your LFS. The only problem is that our LFS's don't have what we want right? I will get the bulb myself no prob. I am still in for snails.
Alan; If you want to get snails there is no problem for me to hold them for you. There is a small possibility that Margarita, and Nassarius snails will disappear into the sand, but Astreas will not disappear. I would just set up my spare ten and put a little sand from my tank, and some tank water into it to avoid cycling probs. They would be alright for a few days. :D

[AJ_77]

All right - thanks Bob; if the tank is still 'iffy' that's good to know.

TONY:
I'll take 10 of each of:
Astrea
Margarita
Cerith

Thanks, let me know the whys and whens. And approx. $ also. If we do the split at Bob's so much the better.

AJ smile.gif
Got snails?

[Bob I]

It looks like we now have three participants, with one marginal. I do not think the supplier has fighting conches. I have heard about them, but have never seen one. smile.gif

[Delphinus]

I have some more information now.

Unfortunately Jayson is no longer bringing in marguerites since their lifespan is too short. However he will have everything else. Alan, want anything in place of the marguerites?

I am told the pricing is still TBA, but will either be as posted on the site, or less.

He will be getting in fighting conches at $12. That must be some snail! Can someone tell me what are they and what are they good for?

[Bob I]

I did not know Margaritas had a short lifespan. I have had one for more than six months. So if he is not getting any, I will double my Nassarius order (10 to 15) Fighting conches are another sand bed digger as far as I know. I believe ovrclckd on Aquaria central knows all about them.
I am still interested in a sandsifting cucumber too.

[AJ_77]

It would be good if he was willing to match J&L prices, then I would take 10 Astrea, 10 Cerith, and 3 Scarlet hermits.

Matching is good...

AJ ;)

[AJ_77]

And something to keep in mind, from an RC post.

Tip of the day - inspect your snails!
I lost a t.maxima today that I added two weeks ago -- lost him to pyramidellidae, or pyramid or rice snails. I know they didn't come in on the clam, my suspicion is that they were on some astrea or turbo snails I added a month or two ago, and this would explain why so may astrea snails have been dying lately. So my daily ritual now is that once or twice a day, I remove each astrea and turbo I can find and use tweezers to pull sometimes as many as 8 or 10 pyramid snails from each snail. According to the Knop clam book, p. 105, pyramid snails have a reproductive cycle of 2 weeks from egg to snail, and they can become sexual in just 40 days, so a few of them can become a whole mess of them very quickly. After just a few days I am already finding fewer snails, and Dr. Ron thinks that if I am diligent for a month or so, I can get the better of the parasites. So the lesson is, before adding any new snails to your tank, inspect them closely for parasitic snails.

Here's a picture of said parasite:

http://www.harboraquatics.com/images/predators/pyramidelline02.jpg

I know I'll be checking.

AJ

[AJ_77]

From what I've read, Bob, both seem highly regarded. But I will gladly bow to the experience of my betters on this.

Which do you guys prefer, and for what?

Tony - will Jayson throw in some spare shells?Seeing as I want a few crabs - maybe?

Alan ;)

[ 08 April 2002, 13:49: Message edited by: AJ_77 ]

[Bob I]

I have a few shells laying around. They were left over after my crabs ATE my snails. After that I have very few crabs left, and they are just the little blue legs.
I will be happy with either, just waiting for the coordinator (Tony) now. :eek:

[ 08 April 2002, 16:15: Message edited by: Bob Ipema ]

[Delphinus]

Ack! Long thread alert. :eek: Anyways guys I haven't yet forwarded the revised listings to Jayson. Will try to do so tonight and I'll post back once I have done so.

[spikehs]

delphinus,

From what i have read (there is a ton of thread at reefcentral) is that fighting conches are one of the best critters to keep you sand bed looking clean, they supposedly eat everything detritus, cyano, etc. As well, from what everyone says they are supposed to be some of the coolest looking critters for your tank, i have seen some pics, they look like a snail with big goofy eyes and a long snout, kinda like an elephant. If jayson can get some of them in, i will be in on that order as well, btw what livestock does he have holding for you?

[Bob I]

Why Cerith Alan? I had heard Nassarius was the best sand snail.