PH refuses to go up!!

[Hightower]

Ok been working to get the PH up for months now. Nothing has worked. Im at a deadend it seems and the xenia is taking it personally. PH refuses to go above 8.1 avg is 8.0 and goes to 7.9 at night.

I drip/topoff with kalk. Airpump running fresh air through airstones in sump to drive off excess carbon dioxide.

Alkalinity is at 10DKH
Calcium 400
Magnesium 1300
Nitrites/ammonia 0
Nitrates sit at 5 right now. usually 2 or less. (Water change coming up)

90 gal system with lots of flow, with a 10gal refug with cheato, and a 30gal sump with an ASM G2 that pulls a decent amount out.

The only time the PH goes up is when I add an alkalinity additive. Usually randly holmes farley recipe. Thats to be expected. But it doesnt stay up.

What else could it be????

[TheReefGeek]

You are seeing ill effects on xenia at 7.9-8.0 Ph? I would not expect that.

What is the Ph of your top off water (before kalk)? What is the Ph of your water change water?

[Chin_Lee]

those numbers are fine and I wouldn't be too worried about it. many other reefers have the same ph numbers including myself. Although you may wish to verify that your ph probe is calibrated properly - otherwise, don't mess with the water chemistry. my 2 cents

[Hightower]

Top off water is kalk. PH is 12.3

Water changes is usually at 7.8

I use RODI water

[Jason McK]

Ya I wouldn't worry about those numbers. it is more important to keep PH steady (which out are) that getting it higher. 8.1 is a good number and a night number 7.9 is pretty good.
J

[Aquaholic]

Well maybe you should go with "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

I don't worry to much about the numbers as long as everthing is doing well, and i keep up with water changes.

[Beverly]

The parameters you list look fine to me, also. I would second the idea of calibrating the pH probe just to make sure it's functioning properly.

As for your xenia, it might be reacting to a change in water current. My xenia, and I have lots of it in my 120g, falls over if I change the direction of water flow or if I reduce velocity.

[Hightower]

Ok maybe I shouldnt worry so much, but my torch coral and xenia have recently all melted away. everything else is healthy.

PH probe is 4mo old and calibrated 2 weeks ago. I was sure that coral like to have ph in the 8.3 range.

[hawaiiguy]

I'd agree with everyone else, your pH looks good. Your probably right, 8.3 is best but with your tank at 8.1, it's close enough. I don't think its worth messing with and taking the risk of sending pH skyrocketing out of range due to a mishap...

Perhaps the corals are struggling due to something else. What sort of lights do you have on them? How long are the lights on?

[Beverly]

Is your tank room well ventilated, or is it fairly well sealed?

Your change water pH seems a bit low. Are you vigorously aerating the NSW with a powerhead for 24 hrs before using?

The pH has been low in our three reefs lately. We have our windows open, have floor fans going day and night, and I dose kalk each night. Tanks are in our living/dining rooms. I've been fiddling with Randy's "baked" baking soda and baking soda recipe a bit lately, and recording proportions for each of my own recipes, so I can dose a bit of the "raise pH recipe" each day to raise pH. Am keeping records of pH before and after adding the mixture.

After two whole days of dosing and monitoring, I'm not noticing a huge change in pH, but I'm not expecting large changes with small daily does anyway. I'd be happy if morning pH rises .5 to 1 over the course of a week. Once I get pH up where I want it, pretty much anywhere between 8.0 and 8.4, I'll adjust the recipe to maintain pH instead of increasing it.

Sorry to hear about your corals :(

[Hightower]

Well the rom that sits in is sealed well, but there is a single pane window not too far away. Ive opened that sometimes, and I have a air pump running from the window to the my sump.

8.1 is the most ive seen it. It always sits at 8.0

Frogspawn,hammerhead, trumpet, mushrooms all look pretty good. Just dont understand the torch and xenia just melting away.

I'll leave it at that. You would think that having your top off water as kalk witha ph of 12 should keep your ph in the tank up.

[Beverly]

Ah! Sealed room with little ventilation can cause low pH for sure.

To see how low O2 levels are in the room, aerate a glass of water in the room for 20 minutes, then aerate a glass of water outside for 20 minutes. Test pH before and after aerating. You can use tapwater or tankwater for this experiment. If there is a big difference in pH between the inside and outside experiments, you need better ventilation in your tankroom.

[Hightower]

Thanks Beverly. Ive done that test, but there was very little change. The house is all concrete, but the room does have the single pane window which im sure is not very sealed.

Ill just live with it. PH this A.M 7.8

[Beverly]

You would think that having your top off water as kalk with a ph of 12 should keep your ph in the tank up.

My pH slowly slipped to a morning pH of 7.83 in my 67g when using kalk for top up. Alk was also low, though that does not seem to be your problem with an alk of 10. BTW, what test kit are you using and when was the last time you tested alk?

but the room does have the single pane window which im sure is not very sealed.

Ill just live with it. PH this A.M 7.8

A morning pH of 7.8 is cause for concern, ime. I still suspect your sealed room to be a contributing factor. High humidity in the room could also become a problem over the long term. There was a recent thread about air exchangers that you might do a search on.

Anyway, once I realized pH and alk were so low in the 67g, I used more "baked" baking soda in Randy's diy alk recipe. AM pH in the tank is now 7.94, which made an immediate big difference to the finger leather in that tank. All other corals looked fine to me when morning pH was 7.83, including an RBTA, but I think they were doing well inspite of my lack of attention to the pH and alk.

I would like to suggest using a "baked" baking soda mix of one tablespoon to 200 ml RO. Stir well. Store in a small sealed container for use over a few days. Add this mixture at a rate of 10 ml 3-6 times throughout the day and night. If 10 ml raises pH too much at one time, drop it down to 7-8 ml at a time. Keep an eye on alk while you are doing this.

For dosing 10 ml at a time, I use a 10 ml plastic syringe found in the baby aisle at the local drug store.

[StirCrazy]

In 4 years the highest my PH has ever been is 7.9, it has been at 7.8 several time with no ill effects. if you don't find a problem I wouldn't lose sleep over it but I have only ever been able to temporarly raise it over that.

Steve

[Skimmerking]

Is your tank room well ventilated, or is it fairly well sealed?

Your change water pH seems a bit low. Are you vigorously aerating the NSW with a powerhead for 24 hrs before using?

The pH has been low in our three reefs lately. We have our windows open, have floor fans going day and night, and I dose kalk each night. Tanks are in our living/dining rooms. I've been fiddling with Randy's "baked" baking soda and baking soda recipe a bit lately, and recording proportions for each of my own recipes, so I can dose a bit of the "raise pH recipe" each day to raise pH. Am keeping records of pH before and after adding the mixture.

After two whole days of dosing and monitoring, I'm not noticing a huge change in pH, but I'm not expecting large changes with small daily does anyway. I'd be happy if morning pH rises .5 to 1 over the course of a week. Once I get pH up where I want it, pretty much anywhere between 8.0 and 8.4, I'll adjust the recipe to maintain pH instead of increasing it.

Sorry to hear about your corals :(


THat is what i had to do If you can vent your skimmer with fresh air you will see a huge difference. That is what I did and my PH went from 7.8 to high 8.1 to low 8.2 So it does work

[Beermaster]

Really? venting it outside, made that much of a difference? I would have never thought of that.

[Skimmerking]

heck ya its getting pure fresh air to the water.. instant boost try it you will be amazed

[Beverly]

A quote from a very complicated article, The Chemical and Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/chem.htm

Implications for Reefkeeping: pH

It is well known in the scientific literature, if not in the reefkeeping hobby, that calcification is slowed considerably as the pH is lowered below natural levels.15,16 This result is especially concerning and is a hot topic of research because of the decrease in the pH of the oceans as CO2 is added to the atmosphere. The predictions of reduced calcification in coral reefs in the future are substantial. Again, taking the previous sections as a backdrop, we can begin to understand why.

As the pH of the external fluid is lowered, it becomes harder and harder for cells to excrete the excess protons that come about from calcification. That is, they take in bicarbonate, strip off a proton, precipitate the carbonate into their skeleton and then have to do something with that proton. Many of those protons can be used to make CO2 out of bicarbonate, and may thereby boost the rate of photosynthesis.1 Still, not all of the protons may be used this way, and some will be excreted.

Am not exactly sure what the pH is of natural seawater, though. Anybody know? What I'm understanding from the article is that low pH lowers a coral's ability to calicify.

The article also discusses Ca levels extensively, and phosphate, Mg and strontium to some degree. It's really better to read the whole article for the quote to make more sense.

[i have crabs]

why not add a ph buffer if you want it up ?
http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/ReefBuffer.html