Goniopora

[Montana]

I am going to vent, I recently 4 months ago started to put coral in my tank,So i am still depending on fish store owners to help and tell me what kind of coral it is that i buy (sometimes) and inform me some what ar the kind of conditions that the coral need to survive, Last weekend i went to oceans and purchased what i was told to be a green polyped lps. He told me that it doesn't recuire any special treatment just pc lighting and photo or zoo plankton, so i bought it and 2 days later i did some research and found out that i had purchased goniopora and the survival rate at best with an expert level reefer is 8-12 months, now i have some coral that i have to wait to die because no one knows why they don't survive, why are these lfs even selling sure death to consumers,
anyways i am going to try my best and maybe do more research before hand.
thanks for listening.

[Gools]

You should take the coral back to the store, and get your money back. Unless you feel up to the challenge of keeping it. Best of luck

[Keana]

Hi, I got a florescent yellow/green short tentacle from King Ed's about 10 days ago. It is/was in really ruff shape. ReefRoids was designed for this very coral and the particle size/taste is what they should respond to. I don't know that mine or yours will live? However I can report that with target feeding for reefroids and dt's everyday mine is coming out all the time and most of the day and is showing signs of life. This coral I got is half dead, now I would say 1/2 alive. Here's for hope! I should also add, I do lots of water changes on my tank already so I can cope with the extra nutrients.

As for LFS not telling people these things....... They all do it, all of them that I have ever shopped in or worked at. Even the LFS that say they don't, do, as my experience goes. Some staff just don't know themselves, think that you already know, or don't think it's there place? They are a store and will sell what people will buy. I think we would all like to see that change. We all want the cool colorful corals, fish, & inverts. But we want what is possible to keep not just what is florescent and exotic.

Keana

[Samw]

If you haven't read these yets, these might help.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/10/aafeature2

http://www.goniopora.org/feeding.htm

[Keana]

Thanks for the links.

I think all reefers must be color junkies?

[naesco]

Return it immediately to the LFS for a full credit.
It is better that it dies in their tank than in yours. Than, maybe they will quit bringing them in until experts can accommodate their needs.

[fortheloveofcrabs]

The same thing happened to me with an alveopora. They wouldn't let me take it back. That's right, I called LATER THE SAME DAY I BOUGHT THE CORAL and they said too bad so sad. I don't think LFS's realize how bad this is for business. I will NEVER trust anyone at AI again.

[Keana]

I knew when I got mine that it was in bad shape. So, I'm taking a bigger risk than I thought but still it was a risk. When I got it I wasn't told, if they knew, that they "always die". I was told it might do better in a good lighting spot. I am still hopping that it will go alright?? My tank is a nutrient dense tank and I do water changes all the time. I run my skimmer & carbon for 18 hours a day, AquaClear 500 with cheato running all the time, but just started & going very well. Before that I had a EcoSystem I got cheep so it was cool. I feed on a daily basis and shave 3 cleaner shrimps in my 27gal so as to always have a couple with babies. The links that were posted here seem very helpful. I haven't read them fully yet but mostly. Thanks for those....

[BMW Rider]

I have an alveopora that I got abouta year ago. Its doing fine with no special care. It extends its polyps fully all the time, and has increased in size since I got it. Maybe I've just been lucky so far, but don't give up too easily. I don't feed anything in particular for it, but I believe that it must get residual nutrients from feeding the fish.

[Samw]

I have an alveopora that I got abouta year ago. Its doing fine with no special care. It extends its polyps fully all the time, and has increased in size since I got it. Maybe I've just been lucky so far, but don't give up too easily. I don't feed anything in particular for it, but I believe that it must get residual nutrients from feeding the fish.

I have an alveopora as well and my feeling on it is that it is not a difficult coral. It doesn't require target feeding and has been growing well. I've split my colony into 3 pieces with 1 in my main tank under halides and the other 2 in my nano under 18w of light. I'm not really sure why goniopora and alveopora are clumped together sometimes.

[Samw]

A few more interesting links

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520535&highlight=goniopora

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=614641&highlight=goniopora

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Sam,

Thanks for those links. Its great to read about real world experiences & people having success with difficult to keep species.

Anthony

[BMW Rider]

I have an alveopora as well and my feeling on it is that it is not a difficult coral. It doesn't require target feeding and has been growing well. I've split my colony into 3 pieces with 1 in my main tank under halides and the other 2 in my nano under 18w of light. I'm not really sure why goniopora and alveopora are clumped together sometimes.

They are in fact in the same family and are thus very similar corals, in fact, alveopora are often mis-identified as goniopora. According to Borneman in Aquarium Corals, both alveopra and goniopora have very similar needs and requirements. Both are considered as difficult to keep and likely not to survive. However, there are many who are recently having greater success with both of these corals. There is still no cetainty for long term survival of either in captivity.

[naesco]

Sam,

Thanks for those links. Its great to read about real world experiences & people having success with difficult to keep species.

Anthony

Why is that Anthony?
All the authors to a tee recommend that reefers do not purchase these animals as the requirements for successfully keeping them is not known.

The real world experience is that they decline within weeks in the LFS tanks and die in the reefers tanks within months.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Yes, but if companies did not try to make food specifically for hard to keep corals (ie. like reefroids) and individuals, who may have bought their first "impossible to keep" corals without doing their own research or being told wrong info by the LFS, did not write about any successes they may have had in keeping the corals alive, reefing would have been nearly impossible today. I'm not saying we should all now go out & buy these species. However, these reefers who are having some success are getting the info out on foods, techniques, tank parameters, etc. so others can learn & the pool of knowledge can grow.

It is highly unrealistic that suppliers will stop shipping these daisy/flowerpot corals or that all LFS will stop ordering them in because they are beautiful, colourful, and showy. From my observations and discussions with people at many of our LFS, people who participate and do their research on these types of forums are not in the majority. Most people go to the LFS, see something that catches their eye, and buy it. That's why Alveoporas & Gonioporas are, and have been since reefing started, good sellers. I've talked to many of the saltwater room guys and they say that their customers & their bosses want them to bring it in. Also, even the "good" LFS that conscientously refuses to order these species in will often get them in their shipments as replacement or filler corals because their shipper or supplier has too many or wants to get rid of a few.

"Impossible to keep" was what they called Acros & other sps not that long ago. Is it better to have a wider knowledge base on what it takes to at least give the corals a fighting chance or totally depend on the good will and knowledge of every reefer in the world boycotting these species until every LFS & coral supplier stops bringing them in. If you check pretty much every internet sw site or your LFS, you'll find flowerpot corals available. I'd rather know how to take care of them than to hope that businesses worldwide will ban their collection (because that's not gonna happen).

That's why I commend the other member for letting us know what others are doing to help keep these corals alive and thriving in their tanks. One person has had their's (according to their own account) for 9 years, which would indicate they are doing something right.

Anthony

[Samw]

They are in fact in the same family and are thus very similar corals, in fact, alveopora are often mis-identified as goniopora. According to Borneman in Aquarium Corals, both alveopra and goniopora have very similar needs and requirements. Both are considered as difficult to keep and likely not to survive. However, there are many who are recently having greater success with both of these corals. There is still no cetainty for long term survival of either in captivity.

My point was that I don't know why they are considered as difficult to keep as Goniopora because I seldomly read about people's Alveoporas dying on forums. I have read on forums that Alveopora are easier than Goniopora. My impression had been that people are keeping them alive fine. Even you have had yours for a year so far and yours is doing well (Good to hear). Yes, books and websites clump them together as difficult to keep but they also say anemones are difficult to keep and that most anemones die and to keep them in the ocean. I'm just not totally convinced that the 2 corals should have their requirements and survival rates grouped together just because they look the same and are from the same family. My feeling from reading and from experience is that goniopora needs to be target fed but alveopora doesn't.

http://www.cnidarianreef.com/coral.cfm?AID=Alveopora
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=81799&highlight=alveopora

[BMW Rider]

My point was that I don't know why they are considered as difficult to keep as Goniopora because I seldomly read about people's Alveoporas dying on forums. I have read on forums that Alveopora are easier than Goniopora. My impression had been that people are keeping them alive fine. Even you have had yours for a year so far and yours is doing well (Good to hear). Yes, books and websites clump them together as difficult to keep but they also say anemones are difficult to keep and that most anemones die and to keep them in the ocean. I'm just not totally convinced that the 2 corals should have their requirements and survival rates grouped together just because they look the same and are from the same family. My feeling from reading and from experience is that goniopora needs to be target fed but alveopora doesn't.



You may very well be correct on that. I'm just basing it on what I've read in books and on forums as well. As with many things in this hobby, much of the information becomes quickly dated. There is just so much advancement taking place.

Knowing what I know now, I would not look to purchase another at this time, nor would I reccomend one to a novice. I did get mine from another reefer also, so it may also be a hardier variety than some of the wild collected ones.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Yes, I don't think Sam or anyone else recommends them to the new or casual reefer. However, with those links provided, there is some useful new info about how to take care of them with some hope of success if you already have one.

Anthony

[naesco]

Yes, I don't think Sam or anyone else recommends them to the new or casual reefer. However, with those links provided, there is some useful new info about how to take care of them with some hope of success if you already have one.

Anthony

Casual? New? I don't think so.

Goniopora: There have been no advancements. There are several experts and scientists who feel that they may be successful in the near future of finding out just what is required to keep this coral alive.
Please see: http://www.marinedepot.com/FORUMS/Topic20462-9-1.aspx?Highlight=goniopora

That is a far cry from saying only newbies and casual reefers should stay away from them.

These are living creatures and best kept in the ocean until their feeding and care requirements are ascertained and we as reefers have that knowledge and possess the necessary equipment and feeding to keep them alive

[Samw]

I did not recommend Goniopora to a new or casual reefer. Therefore, what Anthony said is true.

In addition, I did not say nor imply that "Only newbies and casual reefers should stay away from them". Therefore what you've inferred I said is incorrect.

Please don't try to start an argument where none exists. Thanks.



Yes, I don't think Sam or anyone else recommends them to the new or casual reefer.
Anthony


Casual? New? I don't think so.

That is a far cry from saying only newbies and casual reefers should stay away from them.

[Montana]

thanks for the links they gave me some hope. I decided to give it a try and see if i can have some luck. The thing that gets me is the mis information i had recieved at the store. If i had known the survival rate i wouldnt have bought it. But it is too late because of my own neglegance in information on the species of coral, so i am thankfull in sites like this so i can get more information and hopefully keep it alive. so far things are looking good exept my clowns are hosting in it.

[BMW Rider]

This is one of the lessons that we all must learn. Do your own research on what you are buying and don't take the word of the LFS for the truth. I like to go in armed with my reference books now. I leave them in the truck, but if I see something I like that I'm unfamiliar with, I can go look it up.