Care to enlighten me? (cooking LR)

[OCDP]

So what exactly is cooking live rock all about? What's the purpose? Is it to remove all the nasties and nuisance algaes? Or am I way off?

How does one go about doing this? Do you need to re-cure the rock after cooking?


Just looking for a mini crash course on cooking live rock.

TIA :)

[Xtasia]

I like mine with Capers and a Bolognaise sauce.

[dirtyreefer]

Be careful not to set your over past 400 degrees. It will burn the rock!

[OCDP]

Haha...

Is there anyone out there that can actually help me out here? Looking for info.. what it's all about, what the purpose is, how to do it, etc..

Thanks.

[Beverly]

Here's RC's looooooong thread on rock cooking....

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=485572&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[christyf5]

Basically you're putting the rock in the dark with water and a heater to kill off the algae, then doing water changes to export any excess nutrients that are shed by both the dying algae and that may be leaching out of the rock. A lot of people do this for 6-8 months or longer, I've done it for 3-4 months with success in killing the algae but have never tested to see if phosphates are leaching from the rock.

[danny zubot]

Seems like a lot of work for something that can also be achieved with a pressure washer.

I've always wondered why people would want to kill off ALL of the bacteria that the rock contains. A good rinse in RO/Di water is all I've ever done to new live rock and Ive never had an issue with it.

[OCDP]

Bev,

Thanks for the link :)

Thanks for the info as well christy.

[vanreefer]

I don't think it kills the bacteria it just allows the bacteria to metabalize the nitrates and phosphates that leach from the rock as the algea dies... this is how I understand it... but correct me if I am wrong

[fkshiu]

That's my understanding of it as well. The metabolisation process results in a lot of sloughing off of detritus and other crap. That's why you swish the container and change out the water every so often.

With the algae gone and the trapped detritus released, there's actually a far better environment and far more surface area for nitrifying bacteria to colonize. The bacteria you have doesn't die because it doesn't need light and the rock is continuously immersed in heated water with aerated with a powerhead.

The process is not designed for "new" live rock, but rock that's been in a tank for a while slowly collecting detritus and building up algae.

It's amazing how much crap is trap in your live rock. I did it myself over several months and each week the entire bottom of the container was filled with junk.

You cannot do the same with pressure washing because that doesn't get to the crap stuck deep inside the live rock and no nitrates/phosphates are metabolised. As well, you're killing the existing nitrifying bacteria by blasting the rock with fresh water.

[StirCrazy]

The process is not designed for "new" live rock, but rock that's been in a tank for a while slowly collecting detritus and building up algae.



it will work just as well for new rock, you think that they don't adsorb anything while they are in the Ocean.. :mrgreen: and judging by the rock I have seen comming in laitly (loaded with algaes) it couldn't hurt.

Steve

[christyf5]

I can attest to the fact that pressure washing just gets the bulk of the crap off. It doesn't get into every nook and cranny to get out all the algae. It was great for a few months but ultimately Grape caulerpa 1, powerwasher 0 :wink:

[untamed]

I think this should be an absolute last resort to get something useful from rock which has become overrun with algae and otherwise useless ....because when you are done you have biological filtration rock...not live rock anymore (sorry, my opinion only)

For me...good live rock should be treated with as much respect for the life on it as you might with a new fish. Goodness knows it costs enough! LR is (by a factor of 10) the most expensive live thing that I've put in my tank.

I do respect that everybody wants something different from their tank. Me..I expect a lot more from my live rock.

[StirCrazy]

I think this should be an absolute last resort to get something useful from rock which has become overrun with algae and otherwise useless ....because when you are done you have biological filtration rock...not live rock anymore (sorry, my opinion only)

For me...good live rock should be treated with as much respect for the life on it as you might with a new fish. Goodness knows it costs enough! LR is (by a factor of 10) the most expensive live thing that I've put in my tank.

I do respect that everybody wants something different from their tank. Me..I expect a lot more from my live rock.

Live rock is merely rock that is loaded with bacteria. when you cook rock you end up with rock that is loaded with bacteria, pods, worms, and other critters.. all you lose is the vegetation. so in essence it is "clean, renewed live rock"

Steve

[vanreefer]

Live rock is merely rock that is loaded with bacteria. when you cook rock you end up with rock that is loaded with bacteria, pods, worms, and other critters.. all you lose is the vegetation. so in essence it is "clean, renewed live rock"

Steve
That will prevent the harvest of more from nature...seems to be a good idea to me

[fkshiu]

You'll only lose photosynthetic organisms such as algae when you cook rock. Everything else stays alive because you're keeping the water heated and circulating.

After cooking my rock there's still an abundance of pods, worms and other critters including fan worms, hydroids, sponges, baby brittle stars etc. There was even a sabon shrimp hitch-hiker that I had never noticed before until I was returning the rock to the display tank and it literally jumped out at me!

[untamed]

[quote]Live rock is merely rock that is loaded with bacteria.[\quote]

That's one opinion, but maybe there should be different terms to describe Live Rock. I propose that be called "filtration rock", not "live rock"....or call it "live rock" and other stuff "real life rock"....Whatever, but they are very different things and need to be handled differently.

If all one wants is biological filtration, why not just fill one's tank with porous ceramic structures that are shaped just the way you want? That would have to be cheaper and you could create exactly the shapes you want.

I don't think it is legal to harvest rock anywhere anymore. It shouldn't be, anyway. Certainly, no one should purchase anything but aquacultured rock these days. I would like to see the LFS produce more documentation on how the rock that they sell was obtained. I doubt the industry is very regulated in places like Vanuuatu (sp?).

Regardless, it is my experience that the rock sold by most LFS has endured such a trip that it has mostly died anyway.

[Quagmire]

Here's a link to a Spanish forum (translated to English).Some good info on cooking rock.

http://www.todomarino.com/forum/showthread.php?p=71153#post71153

[Beverly]

Regardless, it is my experience that the rock sold by most LFS has endured such a trip that it has mostly died anyway.

Interesting subject.

I bought some LR from the lfs over a year ago. Scrubbed it a bit in changewater to remove obvious dead stuff and hair-type algae from sitting in the lfs's tank. Then I cured it in a container other than my display tanks to make sure very little of the detritus and nitrate/phosphate from the rock went into the displays. I sort of followed the "rock cooking" proceedure, with the swishing and water changes, though the curing tank was always subject to ambient kitchen daylight.

Once cured, and it went into two upgraded tanks with rock cured a year or two year before from the old tanks.

Wasn't paying very close attention to the chemistry of these two tanks until about 8 months ago. Even then, tank chemistry attention was a sporadic, if well-meant, gesture to the two tanks. There were weeks where I would dose kalk nightly, then weeks when I wouldn't. Coralline growth during this time was good.

Low Ca levels were not an issue when I dosed kalk, so I test and adust Ca infrequently. However, once I started paying closer attention to alk and Mg levels, and religiously dosing kalk nightly, various macroalgae begin to grow and coralline growth is beginning to explode. I now have halimeda sprouting out of two rocks that showed no inclination toward decorative algae growth for months and months previously.

I'm quite thrilled that halimeda has grown from these rocks :biggrin: It looks beautiful, and makes me want to find a way to pay closer attention to the chemistry of these two and my third tank without too much hassle. Am going to begin daily dosing of alk booster as well as Mg and keep records of what I dose and when. Will also keep a less close eye on Ca, but figure once I get the alk and Mg levels stable, Ca will probably require more attention. I will also begin testing intermittently and record these results as well, so I can tell if my daily dosing is maintaining alk, Mg and Ca at the right levels.

Anyway, no matter how dead LR looks due to its horrible trip from its home in the ocean, with the right care, it will surely come alive.

Just, please, do not pressure wash it with freshwater :eek: Of course, that's just my two cents.

[StirCrazy]

[quote]Live rock is merely rock that is loaded with bacteria.[\quote]

That's one opinion, but maybe there should be different terms to describe Live Rock. I propose that be called "filtration rock", not "live rock"....or call it "live rock" and other stuff "real life rock"....Whatever, but they are very different things and need to be handled differently..

If you read more than the first sentence in my post I went on to say that worms, pods, ect..... is kept alive during the cooking process. so it definitely is live rock.

here is a quote for the definition of live rock "The term live rock refers to coral rubble colonized by marine organisms and cleaned to reef tank use. Its most important characteristics are porosity, origin, cleanliness, and what grows upon it"

So as for what grows apon it, it goes further to say that care full handling and cleaning remove most algae before we get it, as this is undesirable to put in a new reef tank.. I know every body likes different things in the rock, for instance I like bare rock with only Coraline on it and critters, but no plant life. where some one else might hate worms but like Halimeda, but lest not argue about what live rock is as it has been defined and that definition will never change. personally after losing my tank to calurpa I will ensure there is no algae on any rock I get, others might not care, but cooking is no more than a way to "unclog" the rock and kill of any plant life.


I don't think it is legal to harvest rock anywhere anymore. It shouldn't be, anyway. Certainly, no one should purchase anything but aquacultured rock these days. I would like to see the LFS produce more documentation on how the rock that they sell was obtained. I doubt the industry is very regulated in places like Vanuuatu (sp?)..

It is legal and it should be. although they cannot blow up reefs for rock anymore (which I never agreed with) they can harvest storm damage and thats what they do. If you can find some one locally that is selling aqua cultured rock I will be amazed and if you do, tell me so I will stay away from that. Aqua cultured is about 2to 5 times more heavy, as it is blasted lime rock put into the water, does pour job at filtering compared to real live rock and probably has about 1/10 of the "bug" life on it.. but you will be happy to know it will still come with lots of algae :rolleyes: I remember seeing some about 2 or 3 years ago but store owners won't keep ordering an inferior product that won't sell.

[Regardless, it is my experience that the rock sold by most LFS has endured such a trip that it has mostly died anyway.

Weird, every time I have bought rock it was loaded with critters.. what is this death you speak of. If you are talking about no algae on it well personally this is a good thing as you are not introducing an organism that under the right conditions will take over your tank. I have had lots of rocks that with in a couple weeks of being in my tank have started to grow sponges, feather dusters, etc so either you are looking at a isolated case or the place you keep looking at isn't to worried about keeping it nice.

[untamed]

I admit that I have a non-popular opinion about Live rock. My tank does look a little more "untamed" than most people's tanks. That is mostly because of the LR that I obtained got into the tank with a rush trip straight from ocean to my tank.

I find the life on/in the rock itself so interesting that I would consider running a tank full of it without any fish at all.

It's kind of like comparing a garden to a forest. Gardens are beautiful, but carefully controlled/managed, while forests have a wildness that makes them attractive. I'm attempting to make a natural looking tank, not a controlled garden.

I agree that aquacultured LR might not be as good as naturally produced LR (density/porosity), but I can't justify what is happening to coral reefs worldwide when the aquacultured product does the job adequately. If reefs are broken by storms, I still think the broken pieces should be allowed to remain in place where they could continue to survive..not removed from the ocean.

[fkshiu]

There's a school of thought that the harvesting of live rock from the wild (done in a sustainable way) is actually more beneficial to wild reefs in the long run.

The thinking is that since the locals know they can make money off of the reef, it's in their best interest to keep it around. Put another way, if they weren't collecting the live rock for the ornamental aquarium industry, they would probably be blasting it and dredging it for "development".

That's how it works in a capitalist economy - money talks and if you can convince people that preservation of the environment is profitable, then they are far more likely to want to preserve it.

The whole idea of tourism is based on the same principle.

[untamed]

I agree with the economic viewpoint. Make the harvest sustainable...and make sure that the price reflects the true value of the renewable resource.

Unfortunately, reefs of the world are not thriving or expanding. I believe that they are shrinking at a concerning rate. LR harvesting isn't the main/only cause, but as long as the resource is declining any harvesting should be very tightly controlled. I'm just worried that places like Vanuuatu don't have the controls in place that they should.

When I first started a marine tank, I was able to get wild Florida LR easily. Florida put a stop to that since that time.

As I said earlier, I would just like the LFS to provide a LOT more explanation about the sources of their LR to reassure me that I was part of the solution and not part of the problem.

[Boomboy]

um ok stop hijacking this thread its about cooking live rock. and i still think you dont understand what it does. it doesnt kill of the bacteria it just kills of plant life and anything stuck in the rock. so it doesnt make it not live rock anymore it makes is "charged live rock" all the use of live rock but with out all the dead stuff in the rock.

[marie]

um ok stop hijacking this thread its about cooking live rock. .

It's ok, they stopped hijacking this thread nearly 2 years ago :lol: