Tank room electrical DIY: subpanel or no subpanel?

[Delphinus]

Anyone have any thoughts on whether to, or whether not to, install an electrical subpanel in a tank room?

For the sake of convenience, I'm tempted to run a 220line from my main breaker to the tank room (which isn't yet built, only just a twinkle in my eye at this point). The reason being that where the tank room will reside and the electrical panel are not really that close to one another.

I spoke to an electrician a while ago about this, and he suggested I not bother, because my main breaker panel "had lots of room in it". The problem I have with that is I'd have to run a line for every circuit in the tank room from one end of the basement to the other. Not really a big deal I guess, but if the rest of the basement eventually gets developed then it becomes a bigger deal to run a new line if needed. Whereas with a localized panel there is more flexibility, and the option might even be there to run some devices at 220 instead of 110 (I'm not sure if there's an advantage to that, but some pumps and some ballasts can be run at 220).

So my thoughts are, it's a good idea to have the subpanel. Are there any reasons not to (besides cost of the panel and so on)?

[midgetwaiter]

My Dad was an electrician and he loved to do everything in 220. as I understand it you can end up using less power with 220 than 110 in some situations.

I would also vote big time for the sub panel. This would allow you to use GFCI breakers in place rather than outlets. This way you could pretty easily minimize what else gets shut down when one circut ground faults.

[Pan]

plus then you can say 'I installed an electrical subpanel' which i happen to think sounds like someone who knows what they are doing :)

[Quinster]

if you figure the cost of a small panel, and one wire rated to carry the 220, in the long run it would probably be cheaper (as well as easier) than running multiple lines across your house to the main panel.

just my $.02
(coming from the guy who put a sub panel in the same room as the main panel for my tank):redface:

[Gizmo]

Subpanels are great for localized access. If you have a change to run say a pump on 220v, you would normally tie it right into the breaker. So you would want to be able to switch it off for maintenance w/o going to the main house panel. In my case, it also allows for easy expansion if you need another cct, when your basement is finished and you can't run any more wires.

[StirCrazy]

My Dad was an electrician and he loved to do everything in 220. as I understand it you can end up using less power with 220 than 110 in some situations.

I would also vote big time for the sub panel. This would allow you to use GFCI breakers in place rather than outlets. This way you could pretty easily minimize what else gets shut down when one circut ground faults.

the power used will be the same but the amprage will be lower on the main run.

Tony here is my sugestion.. figure out how many outlets/circuts you want to have. say if you have 4 lights you want each one on a different circut as well as 4 pumps and 4 heaters for example.. that way if you have a problem with one you will never loose anything. after you get this figured out (remember no more than 12 amps to a circut preferably 10 :mrgreen: ) add 3 or 4 more to it as future add ons.

Once you have this number, lets pretend it is 6, go to home depot and buy a 50 amp 220 pannel package with breakers (or go with a 100 amp if it is cheaper) then you can get a 50 amp GFI breaker for your main pannel and run one proper wire from the main to the sub. this also GFI protects your entire fish room.

Steve

[BMW Rider]

Seems to me like a great idea. I say go big or go home, and since you are home, nothing left to do but go big. :mrgreen: A sub panel is really simple, just use a big double breaker in the main panel and run the correct sized cable to feed the new panel. Then you can wire your fish room to your hearts delight.

[Delphinus]

Thanks for the suggestions. :)

I did find one wrinkle. At the City of Calgary website, trying to find out what "code" requires, I found this little tidbit:

When developing the basement or renovating existing areas, do not design the development so that panelboards are placed in clothes closets, bathrooms, stairways, or any other area where moisture or location ...
From: http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/planning/pdf/guide1-w.pdf

(It cuts off at that point, they don't finish the sentence .... sure is nice to proofread stuff once in a while! :rolleyes:)

I wonder how easy it would be to pass electrical inspection if it's fairly obvious that it's a tank room. The room will be well ventilated but is that enough? Also by reading between the lines a little, it sounds like enclosing the panel in a cabinet wouldn't be an option.

Guess I'm going to have to do some more homework..

[StirCrazy]

Tony how is the room ? I mean what is on the outside walls of it. you could always put it on a outside wall and make a simple little cabnet for it to dress it up.

Steve

[mark]

When I was planning my fish room had grand plans for a subpanel.

Similiar to you, had room in my main to allow for the fish circuits and still have spots left to develop basement, so thought why bother. It might have looked cooler to have a sub but electrically, function is the same just using main.

Terminated the receptacles first, run the wires back to the panel, had everything ready so power was probably off less than 1/2hour to install the breakers (couple GFI) and hook up.

I'm still able to turn of circuits separately for maintenance and expansion.

[Buccaneer]

Thanks for the suggestions. :)

I did find one wrinkle. At the City of Calgary website, trying to find out what "code" requires, I found this little tidbit:



(It cuts off at that point, they don't finish the sentence .... sure is nice to proofread stuff once in a while! :rolleyes:)

I wonder how easy it would be to pass electrical inspection if it's fairly obvious that it's a tank room. The room will be well ventilated but is that enough? Also by reading between the lines a little, it sounds like enclosing the panel in a cabinet wouldn't be an option.

Guess I'm going to have to do some more homework..

Well that is interesting ... because I am building my tank room in the coming weeks and my electrical panel is in the same room as the tank room ... I on the other hand have no room on my main panel to add anything but a 220 line to goto a subpanel ... will have to talk to a electrician to see how I can plan around this little obstacle :frown:

[BMW Rider]

Thanks for the suggestions. :)

I did find one wrinkle. At the City of Calgary website, trying to find out what "code" requires, I found this little tidbit:



(It cuts off at that point, they don't finish the sentence .... sure is nice to proofread stuff once in a while! :rolleyes:)

I wonder how easy it would be to pass electrical inspection if it's fairly obvious that it's a tank room. The room will be well ventilated but is that enough? Also by reading between the lines a little, it sounds like enclosing the panel in a cabinet wouldn't be an option.

Guess I'm going to have to do some more homework..

I think the intent of that is that you are not supposed to have your panel in something like a bathroom where there would be lots of moisture. I don't think that your fishroom would be a concern. Also, the panel can be placed in an enclosure, but not in the back of a closet or something where it is difficult to access. I have wooden cabinet doors that conceal my power panel, Not an actual cabinet, just a shallow framework with doors to make it look more attractive.

[StirCrazy]

I on the other hand have no room on my main panel to add anything but a 220 line to goto a subpanel ... will have to talk to a electrician to see how I can plan around this little obstacle :frown:

you want to put 220 to the subpanel, you split it in the subpanel into two 110 lines. so if you send 40 amp 220 to the subpanel you have a capability of 80amps of 110.

Steve

[Buccaneer]

Thanks Steve ... I figured that as I have a buddy that did the subpanel thing for a detached garage ... what I was more worried about is the possible moisture issue as my main electrical panel ( and future subpanel ) are in the same room as my tank so need to know what will be needed to make that happen.

[mark]

My 75g sump, mixing barrels etc., is in the basement mechanical room along with the electrical panel. Was concerned about moisture (more on the rim joist than panel) so been watching.

My humidity is 40% max and when we had the cold weather (-20°s), just had a little bit of condensation on the window. Considering CMHC says 30-50% in a house over winter, not bad.

Haven't done a summer here yet but know I'll be evaporating more since imagine I'll have a fan blowing on the sump. I've installed a bathroom fan which I'll put on a dehumidistat and also have a dehumidifier available.

Either way unless you have a tiny fish room and a large amount of evaporation, don't think you'll have a moisture problem with a electrical panel.

[StirCrazy]

Thanks Steve ... I figured that as I have a buddy that did the subpanel thing for a detached garage ... what I was more worried about is the possible moisture issue as my main electrical panel ( and future subpanel ) are in the same room as my tank so need to know what will be needed to make that happen.

ahh ok, by the way, where the hell is DeWinton. It sounds familiar but I can't place it.

Steve

[Gizmo]

Cutler Hammer sells a Water tight sub panel (I believe it was 8 cct's) and a 4 cct for things like hot tubs, outside environments etc. Has a lid.

[Buccaneer]

ahh ok, by the way, where the hell is DeWinton. It sounds familiar but I can't place it.

Steve

According to my 15 yr old daughter it is a hick town :rolleyes: just south of Calgary ... between Calgary and Okotoks :biggrin:

[Puff]

i did my electrical trade training in calgary...and from what i gathered they're pretty anal about that rule.

but if you installed a GFCI then it might be a bit better...wait...nevermind.lol. we're talking about panels.hahaha.

my bad my bad

[StirCrazy]

i did my electrical trade training in calgary...and from what i gathered they're pretty anal about that rule.

but if you installed a GFCI then it might be a bit better...wait...nevermind.lol. we're talking about panels.hahaha.

my bad my bad

Ah but you could feed the subpanle with a GFI breaker off the main panel.

Steve

[Puff]

true true :D

the safer the better in such a humid environment (fish room of course, not calgary.lol).

i would treat it the same as an outlet by a sink or bathtub. im sure the electrical inspector would realize the attempt at keeping it safe :D

im lucky where i live. i know the inspector quite well and he is pretty relaxed about most stuff because he knows i dont do half assed jobs.lol

[StirCrazy]

I find it amazing how different thinkgs like electrical codes can be in different provences.. you would think the would be fedral codes.

Steve