Ich's life cycle

[Kabong]

I purchased a firefish about 2 weeks ago.
He had a few small spots on him that i presumed were ich.
He went in to QT and i began hypo, But the question is?
It's been 2 weeks and the spots are still there.
My understanding of ich tell's me they should have dropped by now.
Is my understanding wrong?

[Bob I]

Do a search on the board on the subject of Ich. There is reams of published information on the subject.:mrgreen:

[Pan]

well to clear ich from your tank you have to have no fish in there for 6 weeks...soo ?

[Kabong]

well to clear ich from your tank you have to have no fish in there for 6 weeks...soo ?

Agreed,
But im wondering about the actuall hosting phase. Which from what ive seen generally last about a week.
I'm thinking maybey ive misdiognozed and it's something other then ich.
Because from my understanding if it was Ich it should have finished the hosting stage by now.

[i have crabs]

hypo kills ich while its in the egg stage laying in the sand or rocks ,the lower salinity causes them to burst and stops the cycle,so first of all the sg must be at 0.009 or lower because at 0.010 it still can reproduce,so while the ich is still on your fish it has to drop off wich i think can be between 3-7 days and if its in the swimming form thats 3-5 days also,so once the sg is low enough wait a good 3 weeks to be safe then raise it up.

[Beverly]

I believe ich stays on the host fish for under seven days. You might have something else going on with the fish. Any pics?

Here are two excellent page on ich and its treatment....

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

[i have crabs]

heres a couple more
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

[Kabong]

I believe ich stays on the host fish for under seven days. You might have something else going on with the fish. Any pics?


Thanx Bev
Thats what i was asking. Maybe i wasn't clear that he's had the same spots in the same place's for about 2 weeks. Thats why I'm wondering if it may be something other then ich.

Unfortunately my camera isn't good enough the level of detail to show the spots.

[steve-s]

Where on the fish's body are the spots localized and was the QT cycled before adding the fish? What are the QT water specs and is alk/Ph being monitored a few times daily? Was C. irritans prevalent when starting hypo or was it prophylactic?

If the spots have not changed in the time frame you noted, it could be Lymphocystis (an iridovirus) or a mild bacterial infection. Any sign of redness around the area or scales standing on end?

Lymphocystis will look "warty" in appearance on the body area while it could look cottony on fin areas. Kinda confusing as it will also resemble fin rot which is bacterial.

When you aquired the fish, it was most likely netted but was it easily captured or a challenge, possibley injured?

Cheers
Steve

[Beverly]

Yes, could be Lymphocystis as steve-s suggests. There was a recent thread where I talked about the remedy for it. Do a search for it.

[Kabong]

Doesn't seem like it is Lymphocystis.

On the plus side something has defiantly changed in the last couple days.
He still has the spots, but he's no longer gasping, has begun actively swimming again, and hes regained his appetite.
Considering he's appeared to be on the brink of death for the last week.
It defiantly seems that he may overcoming it.

[steve-s]

Doesn't seem like it is Lymphocystis.
What does it resemble/remind you of?

There is no real cure (medication wise) for Lymphocystis other than improved living conditions/dietary fortification. Commonly increasing the water changes (to reduce DOC feeding the afliction) with well aged/aerated SW along with HUFA/vitamin fortified foods is the best approach to Lympho. Beta Glucan can also be a plus along with reduced stress and low tank mate aggression.

If the spots have not altered in two weeks, it's definately not Ich.

Any chance of posting a pic?

Cheers
Steve

[Kabong]

What does it resemble/remind you of?

It defiantly looks like Ich, Small bumps that look like salt.
He has 5 in total 2 on one side back near his tail, and 3 on the other side about a 1/4" back from his eye.

After looking into Lymphocystis it seems that the size or shape of the bumps should have changed if that was what it is.
However now that he's eating again the "cure" is covered anyway.
Hes feeding off Mysis flake soaked it vitamins and garlic.
Nitrites nitrates and ammonia are at zero, Ph is 8.2 and there is now tank mate aggression to worry about since he is in QT

[steve-s]

Nitrites nitrates and ammonia are at zero, Ph is 8.2 and there is now tank mate aggression to worry about since he is in QT
All good but the thing to realize about these kinds of issues is DOC is not represented in your water quality readings. Even though the readings are zero, DOC is still present and will feed the problem. I am fairly sure with your husbandry so far that water changes are being performed but it can help if you step them up some depending on what you do now? If doing them more than once a wek I'd say you're good to go. :wink:

If available to you, I would also suggest using Ocean Nutrition frozen foods. They contain Beta Glucan which will boost the immune response further and aide in the speed of the recovery process. Dry/freeze dried is often not that nutritionally complete.

Cheers
Steve

[Kabong]

If available to you, I would also suggest using Ocean Nutrition frozen foods. They contain Beta Glucan which will boost the immune response further and aide in the speed of the recovery process. Dry/freeze dried is often not that nutritionally complete.

I'm on Van island so i may not be able to get Ocean nutritions food, But ill take a look for it. I usually feed frozen mysis but he turns his nose up at.
He happily goes after the mysis flake though? Since he just started eating again so he gets what he'll eat for now.

[steve-s]

...he just started eating again so he gets what he'll eat for now.
Agreed, if the fish was not eating previously, that is more imprtant at the moment. As far as the frozen mysis, it can often be the food size that at issue, not really the food type. Check with the LFS you purchased the mysis from and see if they carry alternate brands of mysis. Hikari is usually great for packing a small mysis shrimp that smaller fish have an easier time with. Doesn't necessarily need to be that brand but you get the idea.

Cheers
Steve

[Rondelet]

I have a Firefish that eats just about anything - as long as it's in the water column. He's particularly fond of ON Frozen foods, but you need to shave it down to small pieces. It's readily available in the LFSs in Victoria.

As for the spots - if they haven't changed/moved in two weeks it's highly unlikely it's ich. If it was ich, the pattern of spots would be changing in cycles, usually spaced in 3-5 day intervals (disappearing and then reappearing -slowly increasing in numbers). I noticed the same thing on mine. A small white spot on his flank near the pectoral fin. I was certain it was ich - until I saw no change for several weeks. My guess is that it's a inert cyst of some sort. If the spots are not changing, I wouldn't worry about it. I agree with Steve, getting your fish eating should be your focus.