Angelfish

[J Feez]

I'm trying to decide between a few different angelfish for my tank.
They are:

- Eibli Angelfish
- Coral Beauty
- Bicolour Angelfish
- Koran Angelfish
- Flame Angel

Now keep in mind that my tank is only 39 gallons. I do know that the Koran Angel's can get up to a foot in length (in the wild at least), but all three LFS that I visited today said that the Koran will actually remain quite small in my aquarium. Is this complete BS just so they can make a sale? Because if I could keep a Koran it would be a no brainer for me to get one. Next on my list is probably the Eibli. I've actually never seen one until today. They are a really neat looking fish. I haven't found much online about...well anything. Has anyone had any experience with them? Same questions for the other 3 fish. What would route would you go if you were in my position?

Thanks for your time everyone!

--- Joel

[Pan]

I'm trying to decide between a few different angelfish for my tank.
They are:

- Eibli Angelfish
- Coral Beauty
- Bicolour Angelfish
- Koran Angelfish
- Flame Angel

Now keep in mind that my tank is only 39 gallons. I do know that the Koran Angel's can get up to a foot in length (in the wild at least), but all three LFS that I visited today said that the Koran will actually remain quite small in my aquarium. Is this complete BS just so they can make a sale? Because if I could keep a Koran it would be a no brainer for me to get one. Next on my list is probably the Eibli. I've actually never seen one until today. They are a really neat looking fish. I haven't found much online about...well anything. Has anyone had any experience with them? Same questions for the other 3 fish. What would route would you go if you were in my position?

Thanks for your time everyone!

--- Joel

Koran
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=412&N=0

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Koran will still grow too big for that size tank.

[BMW Rider]

Minumum tank size for a Koran angel is well over 100 gallons. Your tank is suitable for only dwarf angel species, which includes all of the remaining choices you listed. All are good for captivity, so its just a matter of chosing which you like best.

[Beverly]

Here's a page on the eibli. Says it can grow to 6". Minimum tank size is 30g, however, I would never put a fish that can grow to 6" in a 3' tank unless there were plans for a future tank upgrade....

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=457

Bi-colours also grow to 6", and imo, not suitable for a smaller tank, etc....

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=433

Coral beauties grow to 4", which is more suitable for a smaller tank, imo...

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=438

Flames grow to 4" as well....

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=444


Don't know if any of these angels will pick at an anemone. Perhaps those with experience on this issue will offer their opinions.

[J Feez]

I assumed that the LFS were basically looking for sale w/ the Koran. At full size it would almost have trouble turning around in my tank.

As for the Eibli and the Bicolour; how long do you think it would take for them to grow to their full size of 6"? There certainly are plans for an upgrade down the road, however, it probably wouldn't be any sooner than 12 months and that's a long shot.

What do you guys think about tangs? A yellow tang is probably the only one I'd want to go with as I've heard most of the other ones are pretty tough to keep.

[Skimmerking]

I have a koran in my 170 and its over 6" and 2 " fat and still growing hes 2 yrs old and changing into adult size.

and tangs in a 39 gal will not work either... IMO

Don't take this to heart but if you are asking about Tangs for a 39 gal tank, I think that you have not exhausted your reading to the and looking up all the right material. Having a tang in a small tank means lots of feeding and your tank parameters will change much quickly they need lots of rooom to swim

IMO.




angels that you can keep is easy in a 40 gal tank
Bi color
Coral Beauty
Flame angel
Cherub angel
Lemon peel
Potters angel
that is what i would go with

[J Feez]

The only reason I thought of a tang is because they are more reef safe than an angel. As you can probably tell, I'm looking for a "larger" fish as my center piece fish. Eventually I kind of want to have my tank stocked like this:

- An angel
- 2 false perc clown's
- 2 fire fish
- mandarin goby (once my tank is more established)

That's sort of where I want to be. I don't think that would be overstocked and it would give a nice colour variation. Has your bicolour been easy to keep Asmodeus?

[OCDP]

Not to rain on your parade even more...

But a Mandarin is not a good choice for a tank that size. It need a much bigger system with a nice big fuge pumping out tons of pods.

Bottom line is , your system will not be able to produce enough pods to keep the mandarin alive. Take it from me... I was an ass and tried. However, when I bought mine it was eating prepared foods.. dont' let this excite you and think "oh its eating prepared foods, lets take it home" Because as soon as you do that... and the fish is swimming about your live rock, it notices it's natural food source (pods) swimming around and then takes to those. That's what happened with mine.. it just flat out stopped eating mysis .

I know how annoying it is to want a certain fish and not be able to keep it, or have people tell you what you can and cannot keep. Just keep in mind.. we're trying to save you hassels and problems that will come later. It's all for the best, trust us :smile:

Cheers

[J Feez]

Thanks for the advice Scott. I actually never new that a Mandarin had size restrictions, but it makes sense. Maybe a couple scooter benny's would be a good a alternative? What do you think about the Firefish?

It really is tough work making the right choice!

[OCDP]

Hey,

It's not so much a size restriction, it's more so a diet issue. It's because mandarins (and scooter blenny's unfortunately) feed off little creatures called copepods (sp?) they are little tiny "bugs" that live in your sand and rock. The fish grazes all day over rocks picking off these pods.

These fish are not well known to eat frozen foods or any other prepared foods, although there are people that are having success. IMO though.. I think they need the pods regardless to keep healthy and thriving, because after all this is their natural diet.

The firefish would be a good choice though.. great fish. Very colorful, and always out in the open. IMO, in small tanks.. these are the kind of fish you want to have (active, colorful) Be warned though as firefish are very skittish and jumpy fish, and if spooked they will jump tank. So I would suggest using a cover over your tank if your keeping firefish.

HTH, and I'll try my best to answer any other questions you have :smile:

[Willow]

i havent had personal experance with other angels but i had an ebili do about 500 dollars worth of damage in my reef inside 3 days a few years ago.

[BMW Rider]

Thanks for the advice Scott. I actually never new that a Mandarin had size restrictions, but it makes sense. Maybe a couple scooter benny's would be a good a alternative? What do you think about the Firefish?

It really is tough work making the right choice!

It is hard deciding on the right fish in a smaller tank. The good thing is you're asking questions before you're buying.

Bicolours are less hardy than some, but if healthy when bought and handled well and provided ecellent tank conditions, should thrive. If you are planning this tank to be a reef, then any angel is a gamble. The Coral beauty is considered among one of the least likely angels to nip at corals and is a hardy spieces. Of course there is never any gaurantee with any of them with corals.

Your other fish choices should be fine for a reef. The firefish can be very shy and will not like any aggressive tankmates. Your listed choices are all generally peacful. A small goby like the yellow clown goby would be a good alternative to the mandarin.

[J Feez]

Holy crap that's a lot of damage!! I hope you were able to recover from that!

Thanks for the help Scott. I think I'm going to go back up to the LFS and make a decision from there. Hopefully it's the right one, but you live and you learn right. Koran is out because that would just be cruel. I believe ocean's is getting some Flames in today so maybe I'll go that route. I know you had some trouble with yours Scott, so I'll be sure to check for any type of spots or anything that looks out of the ordinary.

[J Feez]

You're right Ed. The more questions the better really. The world's reefs are already in enough trouble, no need for the people who are trying to save a little bit of them to be part of the problem.

One last angel I thought of that I saw at Ocean's was a Velvet angel. What are those like? I haven't been able to find much on those either.

[Bob I]

Thanks for the advice Scott. I actually never new that a Mandarin had size restrictions, but it makes sense. Maybe a couple scooter benny's would be a good a alternative? What do you think about the Firefish?

It really is tough work making the right choice!

Scooter Blennies have the same requirement as Mandarins.:sad:

[OCDP]

As mentioned..... (see what the ignore feature does :razz: )

It's not so much a size restriction, it's more so a diet issue. It's because mandarins (and scooter blenny's unfortunately) feed off little creatures called copepods (sp?) they are little tiny "bugs" that live in your sand and rock. The fish grazes all day over rocks picking off these pods

[Skimmerking]

Now NOw lets not get to mean on som ones thread please keep it tactful..... and for Flames they are a hit and a miss. I had one in my tank the 62 gal tank and guess what it messed up all my digita and cap's that i had....

[J Feez]

Are flames typically hard to keep? I'm not really planning on having that many corals in my tank. Just enough colour to make it look good :)

[Xtasia]

J,

I think you might be better off getting 1 firefish. unless they are pair, when they become adults they will harass each other until one of them jumps or dies of stress.

As for clowns... I've found that it is best to wait until you find THE PERFECT clowns that you want. Personality and color wise. You've said false percs, but I think if you enjoy clowns that host, perculas, in my experience are more likely to host. Also have really neat black patterns...

As for the angels, I had a really great potters that didn't nip at anything until 2 years. Also had a flame angel that was an angel in one person's tank but an utter terror in mine....

[mr_alberta]

If you are into the more rare dwarf angels, you could try a Multicolor angel. JL seems to have one at the moment.

[Johnny Reefer]

..... But a Mandarin is not a good choice for a tank that size. It need a much bigger system with a nice big fuge pumping out tons of pods. ......
If I may steer of topic for a sec, here.....I agree with the bigger sytem part, but a fuge of any size may not necessarily be required, IMO. IME....I have two Mandarins in a 180 with no fuge and they are both doing fine. The system is big enough to provide sufficient pods without a fuge.

Cheers:smile:,

[J Feez]

I actually already have my clownfish. The LFS told me they were false, but I guess because they have hosted the anenome in my tank that they are true. They do have really neat patterns.

I was under the impression that you kind of had to buy fire fish in pairs. I was told that they would do better like that.

[Pan]

i've read that a mandarin in the wild needs like 2 acres to roam around and feed to keep it healthy (that is without a fresh supply of copepods added to the tank, which i think might be hard to do in edmonton)
if i can find the article i will post it.

i can't find the article, but here is a neat think on mandarins....

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

[Pan]

I actually already have my clownfish. The LFS told me they were false, but I guess because they have hosted the anenome in my tank that they are true. They do have really neat patterns.

I was under the impression that you kind of had to buy fire fish in pairs. I was told that they would do better like that.

just because they host an anemone does not make them false or true...both host aneome's as well as both suometimes won't in captivity...

[Beverly]

What's all this false and true silliness when it comes to percula clowns :question: Either the clown is a percula or it's an ocellaris :mrgreen:

BTW, I have a pair of captive bred ocellaris hosting in a GBTA. They were 2+ years old when I introduced to the GBTA's tank, and they hosted within a couple of days after being added to the tank.

[Invigor]

yay for angels. i've got a singapore, koran and emporer :D had a potters too but it went missing...

go for some purple firefish, they're a great conversational piece for tanks...especially for people that don't normally get to see a marine setup.

[J Feez]

Ok well I took the plunge. I've gone with a Coral Beauty. Because I'm a rookie SW Fish keeper, I decided to go with one of the hardier dwarf angel's. It took me almost an hour to decide, but I think it was the right decision. She's sitting in the bag right now acclimatizing. My next tank is going to be at least a 120 because I really want a Koran!

[Xtasia]

"It will rarely become aggressive towards other fish, but is territorial, and will fight with its own kind unless they are a mated pair."
- Source: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=173

"They are said to be social...but I have read all too often that people keep them in large groups and little by little they begin to disappear until only one is left. Because of this I would only keep them in mated pairs (if you were lucky enough to find one) or singly."
- Source: http://www.aquahobby.com/marine/e_firefish.php

"Regardless of that fact, firefish are not 'grouping' or 'schooling' fish. They do tend to group up as juveniles, however once they reach maturity (and even sometimes before so) they are highly aggressive and territorial fish towards other firefish within the group. It is best to always purchase firefish singly and never as a pair or group. Many vendors are now marketing 'mated pairs' of firefish, however even these fish will turn on each other in relatively short time."
- Source: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/drtfshselfaqs.htm

"I've been reading up on Firefish a bit, and from your site I've found that they don't do well unless they are in pairs.
<true for most... but they need to select their own pairs... as in, having been caught as a pair or forming a pair in captivity upon re-establishment>
I was told by a fellow reefer that unless you get two of opposite sex, once mature they will kill each other. Is this true?
<not so absolute... many aquarists enjoy various numbered populations... the key is larger aquaria with peaceful tankmates. If you have a smaller tank (under 100 gallons) do be sure to see that the pair behave as if pair bonded in your merchants tank and do so for more than a week after import."
- Source: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/drtfshselfaqs.htm