Metal Halide ballast info

[Bartman]

Hi All,

I just bought a used MH/NO fixture and I have a few questions. I'd like to buy new MH bulbs and it looks like the ballast is a probe start but I can't tell. Can anyone identify this unit? The previous owner thought this may be a Hamilton fixture but if anyone recognizes it that would be great. The unit seems to work fine.

Also, can anyone suggest a good place to get a better reflector for it?

Stickers on bottom of ballast boxes:

Metal Halide ballast box:
Model: AF175WD MH A
Serial: 3541
175w 120v 3.7 amps
Energy Savers Unlimited
Carson California 90746

NO Ballast Box:
Model: AF3040W2
Serial: 9967
40W 120V .75AMP
Energy Savers Unlimited
Carson California 90746

Hood:
http://www.geocities.com/kalkake/hood.jpg

Ballast box:
http://www.geocities.com/kalkake/Ballast.jpg

Hood Bottom:
http://www.geocities.com/kalkake/HoodBottom.jpg

Lights on:
http://www.geocities.com/kalkake/LightsOn.jpg

[Bob I]

As far as I know Energy Savers is Coralife.:mrgreen:

[Willow]

that sir is most certainly a hamilton hood. xm, hamilton, iwaskai and venture bulbs will all fire in that hood, ushio's will not. your best bang is going to be with the xm's, very bright and pretty cheap, also j&l has bulbs on sale this month, i just got some 15k xm's for 62 bucks each. you will have to retro in a better reflector, i have to same issue and need to make something as well.

[Invigor]

you'll need the best reflector you can get for the xm15k ;)

[Bartman]

you'll need the best reflector you can get for the xm15k ;)

I'm also looking at XM bulbs. Why do you say that?

[Invigor]

xm10k
ballast used: M58
input watts: 315
input volts: 123.5
input amps: 2.8
ppfd(or par): 137
cct(color temp): 12083

xm15k
ballast:M58
input watts:295
input volts: 122.8
input amps:2.82
ppfd: 55.7
cct: n/a

sources:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature2/document_view
http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2004/review.htm

need I say more.

[Delphinus]

Odds are it's a probe start ballast for the MH. Without an ANSI # the easiest way to tell is count the # of parts. A probe start ballast is transformer and capacitor ("cap-n-coil"), a pulse start ballast is transformer, capacitor and ignitor (looks a little like a capacitor, but likely smaller and slightly different).

[Willow]

you need a decent reflector in there because the par on the 15k bulbs is so low you need ever bit of light you can get into the tank.

[Delphinus]

xm, hamilton, iwaskai and venture bulbs will all fire in that hood, ushio's will not.
Ushios are supposed to have a pulse start ballast (except for the 250's) but FWIW they will still fire on probe starts. I bought my ballasts several eons ago (175's) well before anyone knew the difference between probe & pulse starts and I've been using Ushios for years. They do have a little trouble firing at first but after a little while (a week or so) they seem to start fine anyhow. The only thing is it sounds like a Harley getting started. A pulse start is a much nicer start for sure, and I'm sure, much better for the lamp overall, of course.

[Willow]

Ushios are supposed to have a pulse start ballast (except for the 250's) but FWIW they will still fire on probe starts. I bought my ballasts several eons ago (175's) well before anyone knew the difference between probe & pulse starts and I've been using Ushios for years. They do have a little trouble firing but after a little while they seem to start anyhow. The only thing is it sounds like a Harley getting started. A pulse start is a much nicer start for sure, and I'm sure, much better for the lamp overall, of course.

ushio has changed the specs on the bulbs a year or so ago and will no longer support probe style ballasts. they will infact fire sometimes but the colour can be quite yellow.

[Delphinus]

They never supported them except for the 250's. And the warning about yellow has been around for years but honestly I've never had a problem.

I'm not saying run out and use Ushio's on probe starts, but just recounting my experiences with them. Theory is one thing but seeing is another.

[midgetwaiter]

I'm playing a game of mystery ballast myself at the moment. Fun isn't it.

Seeing as though they are ESU ballsts your best bet would be to ask them about it.

http://www.esuweb.com/knowledge/modules.php?name=Forums

[Bartman]

xm, hamilton, iwaskai and venture bulbs will all fire in that hood, ushio's will not.

So here's the $million question. I've never had MH lights before and this is a new tank. I plan on mostly softies and maybe some LPS. The fixture has 2x175w MH and 2x40w actinic. I think I would like bright, vibrant light (for myself, visually). There's 5 brands of bulb listed above. Which should I choose? :)

[Willow]

i would go xm 10k. if down the road you want to go with a bluer bulb you could try a 14k or 20k bulb but the 10k is a white bulb with lots of par for a 175. if you could find the iwaski 14k 175 they are claiming it is almost as bright as a 250 and closer to a white bulb that blue if you want more light.

[TheReefGeek]

Any specs on the 20K XM?

[mr_alberta]

I never knew Iwasaki made anything above 6500K :eek:

Venture bulbs are most likely the cheapest ones out of the 4 listed. While I've never seen them personally, those who have them seem to like them. XM bulbs are nice and bright though. You need to be careful as there was supposedly a bad batch that came out a while ago that was prone to cracking :eek:

The XM 20000K is a blue bulb with very little par...that's what I've read so far anyway.

[TheReefGeek]

According to this site, the XM 20K has higher PPFD than the 15K, check near the bottom of the page, there is a comparison chart.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature2/view


I am also surprised that the name brand ballasts seem to get lower PPFD on average, than the "standard" magnetic M59 type ballast (not sure what brand "standard" is though!)

[Delphinus]

I never knew Iwasaki made anything above 6500K :eek:

They've had an insanely blue bulb as a 150W size for a number of years which sounds neat but there seems to have been not enough interest to generate importing other sizes. They call it a "50000K" (although of course it's not really). I've always wanted to give one a try but have never gotten around to it. It's a medium base socket (not mogul or DE) though.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=50K-150W&Category_Code=mh70-150

There is also this new one (14k) which looks pretty neat. Like Willow I want to try some of these soon:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=14K-175IW&Category_Code=mh-175w


So here's the $million question. I've never had MH lights before and this is a new tank. I plan on mostly softies and maybe some LPS. The fixture has 2x175w MH and 2x40w actinic. I think I would like bright, vibrant light (for myself, visually). There's 5 brands of bulb listed above. Which should I choose? :)
I'm with Willow on this one. You might want to start with a 10k and see how you like it. A "good" 10k should fit your description of a "bright vibrant" light (think "crisp white" or "white with a hint of ice blue").

A good 14k bulb isn't too bad either. I did try the venture 14k's though (in the 250W size) and I found them to be overwhelmingly blue (think disco blue). (Just my own preference, others may like it, but it was a bit of a culture shock for me coming off 6500K's). I ended up trading them in for some Venture 10k's and I am happy with the colour of those bulbs (I do have actinics alongside so that did influence the overall blue-ness). But in the past I've had other 14k lamps (in the 175W size) and found them to be a nice colour. I find 14k's are good all by themselves, but the problem is they tend to have a lot lower PAR. I have 10k's over one tank by themselves (Ushio 175) and 10k's over another (Venture) with actinics and I think I like the look of actinic supplementing slightly better. And you can have a cool dawn/dusk effect. But of course, it's all personal preference.

[Willow]

i called pa and asked what they thought of the iwaskai 14k's. jason told me they had one running on a tank and it was *very bright*. he said it was a shade bluer that a xm10k but not by much. if i was growing sps with 175's that what i would want i guess. my disply now is all lps and i was looking for more colour so i tried out the xm 15k. it really pops the colour out but time will tell if anything ever grows again.

[Delphinus]

Dang it Willow, I think you just convinced me to spend some $$$ that I was saving up for other things. I think I'm going to try these Iwasaki's. Oh well, worst case scenario, they won't live up to the hype but at least then we'll know. I'll let you know how they work out (assuming pa has them in stock right now I'm going to go order 2).

[Maverick]

Damn, that hood looks exactly like mine . I was going to order some of those bulbs as well. J&L said they were trying to get some in, but had no time frame.

Brent

[Maverick]

you need a decent reflector in there because the par on the 15k bulbs is so low you need ever bit of light you can get into the tank.


Can a person buy a retrofit reflector for this unit , or do they have to make one ?

Brent

[Willow]

Can a person buy a retrofit reflector for this unit , or do they have to make one ?

Brent

i dunno, i have that hood and need to make some reflectors for it as well. i think i might get some hammertone and try that.

j&l must be changing their minds, i asked them about bringing in iwaskai 14k 175's and they told me to try de xm 250 watt 20k's :rolleyes:

[Invigor]

I am also surprised that the name brand ballasts seem to get lower PPFD on average, than the "standard" magnetic M59 type ballast (not sure what brand "standard" is though!)

electronic ballasts aren't known for high performance, but for economy. Also, XM designs their bulbs to run best on probe start ballasts -- hence the better numbers on the standard magnetic ballasts. It proves that XM did a good job fine tuning the bulb for probe start ballasts.

[Bartman]

In this article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/review/view?searchterm=

they test the Iwasaki 14K. I don't know ballasts but is the last one a probe start?

[Delphinus]

Yes, M57 is probe start.

I know I've typed in the list (of ANSI #'s and their meanings) a few times in the past. Let me do a search .... OK here is one, there is a breakdown of the ANSI numbers in this thread (second post)
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13008&highlight=ANSI+M137

HTH

[Invigor]

In this article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/12/review/view?searchterm=

they test the Iwasaki 14K. I don't know ballasts but is the last one a probe start?

nice.. the 175w has more output than the xm15k 250w ;)

[EmilyB]

Bumpity...

Is anyone running the 14k Iwasaki's now on a probe start ballast ? What do they look like ?

[fkshiu]

The Iwasaki 14K has been making quite a buzz on RC. I haven't seen pics (which are almost always misleading in terms of what you'd see in person) but from all accounts I've read, it's a true 14K colour bulb (white with a very slight blue tint) with enough PAR to give many 250W bulbs a good run.

[Delphinus]

You guys missed this thread. :p I've been running this lamp since June.
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25588

I run XM 10k's 250W on another tank, and the intensity is virtually indistinguishable. Not that XM's are no good, quite the opposite in fact, they're a great lamp and I'm a big fan of them. But as good as they are, the Iwasaki is just hands-down the best 175W lamp I've ever run. I regret selling my other 2 M57 ballasts now. I can't wait to see this lamp in other wattages.

[EmilyB]

Great Tony, I'm glad I ordered them tonite. :biggrin:

[Delphinus]

Cool, I think you'll like it. Where from, premiumaquatics? Is anyone else stocking them nowadays?

[EmilyB]

Yah from PA. And they have limited stock it said. Seems like I have to get all the bulbs I choose from there.

[Ruth]

I have never ordered from PA. Is there a Canadian site or do you order from the American one? Just curious.

[Delphinus]

Hi Ruth, PA is premiumaquatics.com. They're American ... Indiana I think. They have a great selection of stuff, I seem to order something from them at least once a year.

[WWWD]

PA is great, I seem to make all my larger purchases from them, in the long run I end up saving a lot of money.