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Pan
03-06-2006, 06:20 AM
Anyone know what would cause my water to go extremely cloudy? I had a fish die, rainford goby...i took him out when i found him. Tested ammonia, test revealed a little, like .25 or so...the lowest i can read thats not 0. did 10 gallon water change (20 gallon tank) everything looked okay then abmmo 6 hours later water looked like water that had milk poured into it. Damn i can wait to get the bigger tank.

Invigor
03-06-2006, 11:31 AM
you should check nitrites as well, might just be a passing bloom

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 02:29 PM
I would run some carbon for a few days.

Beverly
03-06-2006, 02:39 PM
Are you using tap or RO water?

oilfield safety
03-06-2006, 02:59 PM
Any chance that you triggered a precipitate snow storm?:question:

Shane

Pan
03-06-2006, 03:00 PM
Are you using tap or RO water?

tapwater....

Pan
03-06-2006, 03:01 PM
Any chance that you triggered a precipitate snow storm?:question:

Shane

I am unsure of what this is...i did notice long white stringy things in the water...looks like thread almost...

Beverly
03-06-2006, 03:20 PM
Okay. The facts so far 50% water change with tapwater. That's a pretty big water change. You probably have a bacteria bloom from the declored tapwater due to the fact that Edmonton's tapwater is treated chloramine. Chloramine is a compound consisting of ammonia and chlorine, with about 1 ppm ammonia.

We had a recent discussion on chloramine in Edmonton's tapwater here....

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22943&highlight=ammonium

Instead of waiting for a bigger tank, you should invest in an RO or RO/Di unit, or else use RO or distilled water from the grocery store for water changes.

Pan
03-06-2006, 06:35 PM
Okay. The facts so far 50% water change with tapwater. That's a pretty big water change. You probably have a bacteria bloom from the declored tapwater due to the fact that Edmonton's tapwater is treated chloramine. Chloramine is a compound consisting of ammonia and chlorine, with about 1 ppm ammonia.

We had a recent discussion on chloramine in Edmonton's tapwater here....

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22943&highlight=ammonium

Instead of waiting for a bigger tank, you should invest in an RO or RO/Di unit, or else use RO or distilled water from the grocery store for water changes.
Since i am not allowed to install a Ro/DI unit in my apartment, is there anywhere in edmonton where i can buy bulk distilled water? i don't want to haul 5 gallon jugs from the damn grocery store :)
Also if there was a problem using tap water wouldn't it have shown up early, not after 4 months?

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 06:40 PM
What do you mean, "not allowed" to install an RODI unit? Is this the landlord trying to say that?

mr_alberta
03-06-2006, 07:17 PM
You can always get a faucet adapter so you don't have to tap any pipes to install a RO unit.

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 07:20 PM
That is how I ran my RODI when I was in an apartment. I used a 50g rubbermaid container to store the water so I didn't have to run the unit too often.

Pan
03-06-2006, 08:36 PM
That is how I ran my RODI when I was in an apartment. I used a 50g rubbermaid container to store the water so I didn't have to run the unit too often.

well i will look into, buty i think it is too late for my current tank....i just did another water change (tested the new water...all seemed ok) when the new water hit my galaxea it turned it white....so i don't know what the hell went wrong...if the system can recover hopefully i will be able to at least save the liverock....but it doesn't look good...clowns are hanging out in the corner gasping for aIR...I'M SCREWED!


Is there a way i can re-do my tank if this explodes on me...which it looks like it has, I AM SO ****ED right now, i just don't know what happened...should i keep the rock in some salt water then make up a new batch and wash the substrate off and re-cycle it...? even if just to keep the liverock going untill new tank....lots of money just went down the drain :(

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 08:45 PM
When the new water hit your galaxea, the water turned white, or the galaxea? How do your other corals look?

What water tests have your run? Can you post your results?

This is serious, but I have no idea what the problem is right now I am afraid.

I would head down to the grocery store for a couple 5g of distilled water, buy a new bag of salt, mix it up, heat it & aerate it in anything (5g bucket, rubbermade, spare tank), and transfer your livestock over right away.

If possible, I would have two temporary containers, one for fish & inverts, the other for corals. Try to save what you can. You can also seperate your live rock into a 3rd container, but remember everything has to be heated, and have a powerhead in it at least.

I would also run carbon right away, and any future water changes use new salt, and non-tap water.

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 08:49 PM
Where are you from?

If you are in Edmonton I can help you out tonight with some supplies, I have spare tanks, heaters, salt, and powerheads you could borrow.

Pan
03-06-2006, 08:56 PM
When the new water hit your galaxea, the water turned white, or the galaxea? How do your other corals look?

What water tests have your run? Can you post your results?

This is serious, but I have no idea what the problem is right now I am afraid.

I would head down to the grocery store for a couple 5g of distilled water, buy a new bag of salt, mix it up, heat it & aerate it in anything (5g bucket, rubbermade, spare tank), and transfer your livestock over right away.

If possible, I would have two temporary containers, one for fish & inverts, the other for corals. Try to save what you can. You can also seperate your live rock into a 3rd container, but remember everything has to be heated, and have a powerhead in it at least.

I would also run carbon right away, and any future water changes use new salt, and non-tap water.

The Galaxea turned white, it looks like a skeleton...mind you some got exposed when i drained the water...but only a tad for about 3 seconds...
Tests for water are as follows

Ph 8.3
Calcium 480 or so
nitrate 10
nitirite 0
ammmonia 0

i am confused as hell....

I wish i could runto get distilled right now, but i am on a fixed income for school....hell i can't buy more salt till next month... :( i have enought for 25-30 more gallons though..but thats it....

Me thinking i am defn going fish only with next tank...at least until i not so limited in funds...
tank was doing so well for 3.5 month xenia was beautiful, mushrooms were huge galaxea...was well galaxeaing...(whetever they do).....

damn damn damn damn damn

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 08:59 PM
Exposing it for that time wouldn't hurt it.

Your calcium is really high, are you dosing calcium? What salt are you using?

Now I can tell you the white cloud is likely precipitated calcium. Water can only hold so much, then it turns into a solid, which would appear white which sounds like what you are describing.

But your Ph is in line, so that is good.

I would go get a different brand of salt right away, mix it heat it aerate it, and transfer your animals right away.

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 09:05 PM
Where do you live? Lets try to keep these animals alive. Maybe a fellow reefer from your city (wherever that is!) can lend you some salt, and/or keep your animals alive for you in their sump/fuge.

I would have expected your Ph to be out of whack if it was precipitated calcium.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Pan
03-06-2006, 09:11 PM
Where do you live? Lets try to keep these animals alive. Maybe a fellow reefer from your city (wherever that is!) can lend you some salt, and/or keep your animals alive for you in their sump/fuge.

I would have expected your Ph to be out of whack if it was precipitated calcium.

Anyone else have any ideas?


I live in edmonton...about 8 blocks from the university....so far the crabs
Electric blue and emerald seem okay....my urchin is doing it's urchin thing...the clowns are gasping like mad....

if anyone could help me out that would be great....umm...i don't have any buckets or anything to trasnfer livestock though...


i just did another alk and ph test alk is way high....ph is way low.....below 7.4 i would guess from the test
i have buffers but i've never needed to use them....only occasionally iodine and occasionally purple up....
so is this a precip..whater storm? water smells wierd...i can't place it. what do i do now?
i've done three alk and ph tests one showed okay...then the other two didn't....bloody hell..er heck....anyone want to come over and see a tank slowly dying and figure out what to do?

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 09:21 PM
When this happened, was it the first use of this batch of salt? Or had you used it before without problems?

If you want to come pickup some stuff to help you out (5g tank, powerhead, heater, 5g pail of RODI water, and salt)

I will be home around 6:15pm tonight, leaving again at 8:30pm.

You could also call the LFS you got most of your stuff from, and see if they will take any of it for you.

I would say the tests saying your alk and Ph are off are correct! Sounds like a salt problem if you are not buffering with anything, what brand of salt are you using? There is a post here about bad Kent salt here, I haven't read it, but check it out.

Pan
03-06-2006, 09:22 PM
When this happened, was it the first use of this batch of salt? Or had you used it before without problems?

If you want to come pickup some stuff to help you out (5g tank, powerhead, heater, 5g pail of RODI water, and salt)

I will be home around 6:15pm tonight, leaving again at 8:30pm.

You could also call the LFS you got most of your stuff from, and see if they will take any of it for you.

It is hard to say without seeing the tank, any chance of some pics?

no it wasn't the first batch of salt used...it was the second time i used it....
i would love to come over and borow those items if it would be okay....hopefully i can salvage somethings....should i put everything in there?
any chance you could come over...i hate to ask but maybe seeing the tank first hand might give you some clues...
yep i'll snap a few pics right away..,..

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 09:29 PM
You said you dont have a bucket, but you have to have something that would work to transfer your animals.

Large bowls, sandwich bags?

I could fit your stuff in my fuge until you can afford to buy new salt and correct this problem.

You could also try your alk and Ph tests a few more times, try to average the results, and then use the buffers you said you have.

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 09:32 PM
You seem to like editing your posts right after I read them! :)

I can't make it over tonight unfortunately. But you can come between 6:15 and 8:30 for those items, no problem.

Take a few more alk and Ph tests and add the buffers accordingly, and your stuff might pull through, but do it quickly.

Pan
03-06-2006, 09:34 PM
here are some pictures...
i hope that worked

Pan
03-06-2006, 09:35 PM
You seem to like editing your posts right after I read them! :)

I can't make it over tonight unfortunately. But you can come between 6:15 and 8:30 for those items, no problem.

Take a few more alk and Ph tests and add the buffers accordingly, and your stuff might pull through, but do it quickly.
can you pm me instructions how to get to you?

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 09:39 PM
I would use the buffers ASAP.

PM sent with directions.

Pan
03-06-2006, 09:44 PM
I would use the buffers ASAP.

PM sent with directions.


what did the pictures look like to you?

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 09:48 PM
Tough to tell what the water looked like, but your coral is definately dieing off quickly, which would be consistant with a rapid change in Ph and/or alkalinity.

Beverly
03-06-2006, 09:52 PM
Pics look bad, I'm afraid :sad:

Dying/bleaching corals are going to release ammonia, which might explain the fish gasping.

Did you remember to use dechlorinator with last water change? Also, a 50% water change is pretty drastic. Was there a reason you did one so large?

I wish there was something I could do to help figure out what happened to cause such a catastrophe :sad:

Pan
03-06-2006, 09:54 PM
Pics look bad, I'm afraid :sad:

Dying/bleaching corals are going to release ammonia, which might explain the fish gasping.

Did you remember to use dechlorinator with last water change? Also, a 50% water change is pretty drastic. Was there a reason you did one so large?

I wish there was something I could do to help figure out what happened to cause such a catastrophe :sad:


I did such a drastic change cause i had a fish die on me and the water went cloudy....so i figured better safe than sorry...that coral bleached when i put the new water on it...as soon as the new mix of water hit it it went white.

It's quite depressing actually to know 4 days ago i had what i thought was a nice little thriving community...cute little gobi...sniff sniff....clowns are hanging on, but they must feel like they are being tortured.

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 10:10 PM
Strange. A fish dieing should not make water cloudy, any idea how long it was dead for before you got it out?

But from the fact that pouring the new water on your coral bleached it, I suspect your salt, or something terrible in the Edmonton water supply. So you need to use RODI water and new salt to put your animals in.

Have you re-tested Ph and Alk and tried any buffers yet?

Did you dechlorinate your water and leave it overnight with a heater and powerhead before use? Otherwise a 50% change will significantly reduce the oxygen and temperature of your water.

howdy20012002
03-06-2006, 10:11 PM
if u want, i can hold everything for you till u get this sorted out
call me..i will pm u the number
if not, I hope everything works out for ya
Neal

Beverly
03-06-2006, 10:12 PM
Sent you a PM.

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 10:17 PM
Ron, if you can get your stuff (fish and corals) to Neal faster than waiting for me to get home (because then you still have to get home and setup the temporary tank) then do it, time is of the essence.

Pan
03-06-2006, 10:37 PM
Ron, if you can get your stuff (fish and corals) to Neal faster than waiting for me to get home (because then you still have to get home and setup the temporary tank) then do it, time is of the essence.

Thanks, yep neal said he would take my fish...and possibly the inverts.
The galaxea, well i threw it wentt it went completely white.
the xenia is shrivelled but hopefully...and the mushrooms who knows....

maybe i could come over tomorrow and borrow the heater pail and ro/di water..put the live rock in...then i can clean the substrate and everything then
well...start over.

TheReefGeek
03-06-2006, 10:40 PM
Yep, no problem.

Best of luck, and if you lose the xenia and want more when you re-start I will frag those, a colt coral, and a kenya tree for you for free.

Pan
03-06-2006, 10:47 PM
Yep, no problem.

Best of luck, and if you lose the xenia and want more when you re-start I will frag those, a colt coral, and a kenya tree for you for free.

My god you have been so helpful, you don't have to do that....

Pan
03-06-2006, 11:05 PM
Okay whoa...i put fresh mixed salwater (over night) into a bucket for the fish, it went white to. I think maybe i have bad salt?

whoa even the worms are dying...

TheReefGeek
03-07-2006, 12:10 AM
Test the Ph and alk of the water when you make a new batch up, before adding it to your tank.

My softies grow quickly, so dont worry about it. My colt would just barely fit into your 20g :)

Pan
03-07-2006, 12:26 AM
Test the Ph and alk of the water when you make a new batch up, before adding it to your tank.

My softies grow quickly, so dont worry about it. My colt would just barely fit into your 20g :)

Wow....
you think i should drain the tank and set the live rock in some water...then clean the substrate?
Going to have to buy some rock from you when i get the new tank...seeing as my car just cost me 2500 bucks i've had to stall the custom tank build...lost my deposit as well. Thats why i was hoping someone would trade the speakers for a tank and stand....

TheReefGeek
03-07-2006, 12:33 AM
I wouldn't worry about the live rock and substrate, as long as you can get some new salt and good water relatively quickly.

Did you try any buffers?

Whatever place sold you the tank and is keeping your deposit, they should apply that money for when you do buy the tank in the future. Mind sharing who that is?

Pan
03-07-2006, 01:32 AM
I wouldn't worry about the live rock and substrate, as long as you can get some new salt and good water relatively quickly.

Did you try any buffers?

Whatever place sold you the tank and is keeping your deposit, they should apply that money for when you do buy the tank in the future. Mind sharing who that is?

I guess i don't lose the dposit, but i ...they will hold it, but because i won't have the money when we agreed there is a penalty fee...It's a acrylic place in the states...my uncle was dealing with them for me.

Beverly
03-07-2006, 01:36 AM
Did you try any buffers?

If he has high alk already, he SHOULD NOT add more buffer.

TheReefGeek
03-07-2006, 01:45 AM
i was thinking for the low Ph.

Pan
03-07-2006, 02:01 AM
If he has high alk already, he SHOULD NOT add more buffer.

yeah i was just going to add ph buffer...but i think what i might do is mix up some saltwater, Thanks again for the salt neal.....mix up some salt put the live rock in the bucket heat it powerhead it...and drain 90 or so percent of the old water and make up some new.....this sound like a good idea?
since all the worms are dying...even my urchin is dying...
whats weird is i made up some fresh saltwater to put the fishes in for neal to take...the water was fresh and went cloudy in like 10 minutes after the fish went in...(i know never put fish in fresh mix salt, but i was worried, figure it was better than the watter they were in....it was cloudy, but their breathing wasn't as labored...but it was so cloudy you could not see the fish looking into the top...
i am still kind of unsure what to do....plus i have to write part of my philosophy paper tonight...sheesh

Pan
03-07-2006, 02:07 AM
also would it be safe to store the liverock in freshly made saltwater...if i put a powerhead and heater in there? since even the worms are dying in the main tank i probably can't hurt. Feather duster is still going strong as well as emerald crab....hermit has slowed and the urchin is lethargic...could be cause he poked me while i was trying to get the clows out and i dropped a rock on him :(

Beverly
03-07-2006, 02:19 AM
i was thinking for the low Ph.


From The Relationship Between Alkalinity and pH:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2002/chem.htm

"A buffer is something that helps minimize pH changes in the presence of added acid or base. No buffer can completely stop the pH from changing when acid or base is added. The change in pH, however, is made smaller when an appropriate buffer is used."

Reading Low pH: Causes and Cures may be helpful in this situation:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

Beverly
03-07-2006, 02:29 AM
also would it be safe to store the liverock in freshly made saltwater...if i put a powerhead and heater in there? since even the worms are dying in the main tank i probably can't hurt. Feather duster is still going strong as well as emerald crab....hermit has slowed and the urchin is lethargic...could be cause he poked me while i was trying to get the clows out and i dropped a rock on him :(

Remove the rock to water that is known to be safe. Make sure the new water is close to the same temp as the tank. Aerate the heck out of the new water and keep it aerated the entire time the rock is in the new water. Yes, also keep a heater in with the rock. You want to keep the water as close to tank temps as possible.

I'm thinking about what may have caused the sad meltdown of your tank:

1. You did not use a dechlorinator and livestock, including LR, are dying because of the chlorine.

2. The new saltwater you used had not been properly aerated (at least for a couple of hours, overnight is better) and heated, and the shock of the vastly different temps, pH, and other gases in the tapwater were enough to begin a cascade of dying organisms.

Whatever happened, it's a terrible shame to lose so much livestock all at once like this :cry:

TheReefGeek
03-07-2006, 02:40 AM
I think it is the salt, he mixed a new batch and it went cloudy in 10 minutes, that is just wrong!

howdy20012002
03-07-2006, 02:41 AM
hey everyone
just thought i would add a good note
the clowns appear to be doing fine in my invert tank
weird though, when i started adding my tank water to the bag of water they came in to acclimatize, the water became less cloudy and material started to solidify
i dunno what this means..
i don't think that salt would start to solidify again..
unless
wait..what is ur salt content? maybe ur Hydrometer is out..
how much salt are u putting in per gallon?
Shoot..should've tested the water with my refractometer before dumping it?
maybe that has something to do with it..
maybe way too salty?
i dunno..
Hopefully my salt will work for ya
way too weird

Pan
03-07-2006, 03:25 AM
Remove the rock to water that is known to be safe. Make sure the new water is close to the same temp as the tank. Aerate the heck out of the new water and keep it aerated the entire time the rock is in the new water. Yes, also keep a heater in with the rock. You want to keep the water as close to tank temps as possible.

I'm thinking about what may have caused the sad meltdown of your tank:

1. You did not use a dechlorinator and livestock, including LR, are dying because of the chlorine.

2. The new saltwater you used had not been properly aerated (at least for a couple of hours, overnight is better) and heated, and the shock of the vastly different temps, pH, and other gases in the tapwater were enough to begin a cascade of dying organisms.

Whatever happened, it's a terrible shame to lose so much livestock all at once like this :cry:

yep basically whole tank is pooft....
i always add dechlorinator...i usually use a little more prime than i should...i'm paranoid...

i dunno....starting over basically....just mixed some new salt put it in tank, hopefully bacteria in the filters is ok, otherwise when i put liverock back in it's going to cycle over again....

hmm...

Pan
03-07-2006, 03:31 AM
hey everyone
just thought i would add a good note
the clowns appear to be doing fine in my invert tank
weird though, when i started adding my tank water to the bag of water they came in to acclimatize, the water became less cloudy and material started to solidify
i dunno what this means..
i don't think that salt would start to solidify again..
unless
wait..what is ur salt content? maybe ur Hydrometer is out..
how much salt are u putting in per gallon?
Shoot..should've tested the water with my refractometer before dumping it?
maybe that has something to do with it..
maybe way too salty?
i dunno..
Hopefully my salt will work for ya
way too weird

i dunno if my hydrometer is out, i assume no...i make the water to beabout 1.024-025, lfs tested with refract a month ago and it was a little off but not much, maybe is the high alk content....or maybe my calcium test is buggered and the purple up i added was too much...i tried best as i could to keep it in the 400-430 range....hopefully those little clowns will be happy for awhile.. :)
Thanks again neal....mucho mucho thanks

On another note my father said he would help me with a new tank purchase later in april so thats some good news...plus i am going to stock up on more essentials before i start....amazing how quick your stock depletes in an emergency...especially that damn prime....
I stirred up the sand bed a HUGE ammount when i did new water....but ammonia only reads just above zero or so....i have all the other water with the liverock in it....best i could do....hopefully this is going to work out...have a feeling those clowns with be with you neal for a good 6 weeks or more :)
hope that is okay...maybe the tank will cycle again/if it has tooo...by the next meet :) I'm buying the pizza for everyone...most assuredly.

Murminator
03-07-2006, 04:28 AM
Don't mean to rude but I gotta ask
You did use reef salt and not table salt right?

Pan
03-07-2006, 04:39 AM
Don't mean to rude but I gotta ask
You did use reef salt and not table salt right?

no i used kosher salt.....

yes i used reef salt....instant ocean..:)

TheReefGeek
03-07-2006, 05:26 AM
Glad to hear some of your stuff will make it, and you are sticking with the hobby! A few months back I lost all my fish but 1, and 3/4 of my corals due to instant ocean's bad batch of salt, but mine was never cloudy. Most LFS took instant ocean off their shelves for a couple months. Apparantly they changed ownership or something and tried to cut costs, I dont know the whole story, just that I lost couple grand of stuff, and my tank is just starting to come back now. So I know what it feels like.

When you are ready, I have a colt, kenya tree, xenia, and by then maybe some zoos and green star polyps for you to restart your tank with, just PM me.

Pan
03-07-2006, 07:39 AM
Glad to hear some of your stuff will make it, and you are sticking with the hobby! A few months back I lost all my fish but 1, and 3/4 of my corals due to instant ocean's bad batch of salt, but mine was never cloudy. Most LFS took instant ocean off their shelves for a couple months. Apparantly they changed ownership or something and tried to cut costs, I dont know the whole story, just that I lost couple grand of stuff, and my tank is just starting to come back now. So I know what it feels like.

When you are ready, I have a colt, kenya tree, xenia, and by then maybe some zoos and green star polyps for you to restart your tank with, just PM me.

Looks like the only thing that will make it now is maybe my electric blue hermit and 1 snail...the other 6 died, the emerald died...mushrooms are toast and i dunno about the xenia....i did about a 95 percent water change, and the water is still cloudy, mind you that could just be from stirring up the aragonite...i put the live rock back in and all...guess we will see...even if it doesn't make it...i have base rock for the bigger tank :) unless it is somehow contamintaed or something.....even with the new water alk tested way way high...so i dunno

hopefully my clows will be ok at neals...they are probably thanking him and cursing me off ... :)

TheReefGeek
03-07-2006, 02:08 PM
Bring some of your water in to the LFS and have them test everything for you, they do it for free.

Pan
03-07-2006, 06:12 PM
Bring some of your water in to the LFS and have them test everything for you, they do it for free.

Have to wait until thursday now, I have class or work until then....damn

Still cloudy though and alkalinity is way high even with new water...so i'm thinking something was in the substrate? I used different salt tested it and the alk of the tap water both were fine, until put into the tank....so i have to fidure out how to lower the alkalinity....

Pan
03-07-2006, 06:53 PM
What is the best way to lower alkalinity? That seems to be the only thing i can think of that is wrong....found another dead bristle worm....so something is killing them ....

seashells
03-07-2006, 07:27 PM
Since i am not allowed to install a Ro/DI unit in my apartment, is there anywhere in edmonton where i can buy bulk distilled water? i don't want to haul 5 gallon jugs from the damn grocery store :)
Also if there was a problem using tap water wouldn't it have shown up early, not after 4 months?

Here is a tapwater filter you can attach to your sink faucet. Works very well. Here is the link http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/rounits.php?product_ID=ro-aptwp

Hope this helps.

Doug

Pan
03-07-2006, 10:14 PM
Well, looks like my system went tits up....the electric blue hermit is still alive but, not much else....and the water smells now like uncured liverock smells, mind you that could be because everything died on it...or at least a lot died...

Should i just keep the liverock and everything in there and see if in the next few weeks it rights itself? Then if it doesn't, clean the liverock (not sure how i would do this) and use it in the new tank? with new substrate etc..?

TheReefGeek
03-07-2006, 10:17 PM
I think you should drain all your water, take everything out, rinse out your sand thoroughly, fill back up with RO water and new salt (not the salt you have been using) and put everything back in. Then watch your levels, tank might cycle again, then when it is all good put your clowns back in, and start again slowly with adding livestock.

Pan
03-07-2006, 10:31 PM
I think you should drain all your water, take everything out, rinse out your sand thoroughly, fill back up with RO water and new salt (not the salt you have been using) and put everything back in. Then watch your levels, tank might cycle again, then when it is all good put your clowns back in, and start again slowly with adding livestock.

I used salt that neal gave me for mixing the new water so, it's not the salt.,..it had to be in the substrate....or in the cannister filter...but i cleaned it...
needles to say i am very confused

I don't have any ro water...i might have salt enough to do it..maybe...
think it will harm it until thursday or so...i have no time until then...have to be at work in half an hour...hmm...

if i can find a place to get 20 gallons or so of ro/distilled in the city i will look into it...i think i'm going to go with seachem salt next time here....i'm just worried i am doing this all for naught...and might be better off just using the liverock(if it's that anymore) in a new tank as Base rock...after it's cleaned...being on a student budget makes things difficult to try and hope things work out as opposed to knowing they will...if that makes sense. And since i am getting a new tank anyways....

the most expensive base rock i'll every buy i suppose :)
whats wierd is all the tests except alk test fine...even ph is about 8.3 but the alk tests so blue it's neon almost....light blue green is normal on my test kit...oh yeah will the liverock hurt anymore than it has just sitting there while i clean the substrate etc? Maybe give the tank a cleaning as well as the filter...can you clean them with bleach? making sure you rinse really well?

howdy20012002
03-07-2006, 11:46 PM
Clowns are doing fine
just thought i would let u know..and spread some good news
Neal

Pan
03-08-2006, 04:09 AM
Clowns are doing fine
just thought i would let u know..and spread some good news
Neal

Yay my little fishes made it :)

thanks once again neal....most grateful.

Now if I can only figure out how i am going to do my next setup....can't decide wether to wait for a tank i can drill or not....can you run a sump without a skimmer for awhile or is this nec? can you get a drilled tank and then run some pipe and cap it off untill you can get a sump? just run it regular? or do you need i would guess you would need to cycle the tank with the sump....hmm...so many questions. I think my liverock is pretty much toast....at least mostly...member that nice fanworm? he is all out of the rock and toast...i'm gonna try one more time tonight and rinse all the substrate and do a water change....hopefully this might help....dunno...

TheReefGeek
03-08-2006, 02:21 PM
You can drill the tank and add the sump later easily, you just cap the bulkheads. Definately go with a drilled tank if you can.

I would also get the tank drilled for a closed loop, do some searches on closed loops.

You don't need the sump to cycle the tank. But yes, you can run the sump without a skimmer for a while.

When planning your sump, dont put too much flow through it, use the closed loop for the majority of your water flow.

Pan
03-09-2006, 03:51 AM
well the water has mostly cleared up...liverock is proably toast though...since i'm sure everything live on it died....so i have a tank full of maybe live most likely base rock....sheesh...fish only for awhile :)? Sure were a lot of dead bristle worms though.....i mean a lot. Plus the emerald crab died stuck in a wierd pose....i feel sorry for the little guys dammit. I'm thinking the water was contaminated from an emperor biowheel...i noticed when i put it on to run in some test water ...white crap came out of it....and the motor got hot...and stopped and started...i wonder if it leaked something....or the bacteria died because the wheel stops moving now and then...stopped for about 15 minutes i'd say....then started then stopped....then started then died....sheesh....

would a bunch of dead bacteria turn the wonder alkaline and white?

bloody thing is less then 3 months old...and i can't find my reciept....wonder if big als has a record of purchases?

TheReefGeek
03-09-2006, 04:31 AM
I can't see how a dieing pump would make white stuff in your water. I would bring it back to Big Als and see what they say.

Have you mixed up new saltwater that is not from your old stock? I would get the rock in there, you will be amazed at what will grow back in a couple months, dont worry!

Pan
03-09-2006, 05:06 AM
I can't see how a dieing pump would make white stuff in your water. I would bring it back to Big Als and see what they say.

Have you mixed up new saltwater that is not from your old stock? I would get the rock in there, you will be amazed at what will grow back in a couple months, dont worry!


yep rock is in there and hopefully cycling...i think there should be sufficient decay on it to cycle the tank without extra ammonia source being added...i guess i could pee in the tank for good luck :)

I don't think it was the salt now...as i cleaned the substrate...as well as you can clean 30 lbs of already wet aragonite....took me about 3 hours...and i did not put the biowheel on this time....water did exactly what it did the first time i ever cycled a tank...tstayed cloudy for about a day...or less then cleared up...not totally yet, but defn a lot better than last time...i just have to check the alkalinity later on tonight...hopefully it is ok...if not...then either the tank or the substrate is contaminated or the canister i guess...because alkalinity tested okay when i mixed the salt up....hmm...

anyone know where i can get a stand for a 75-80 gallon tank? (standard)
I've got a few options and i want to thoroughly think them through before deciding....couple different size options avail to me from 45 - 120
think 120 is way to much for an apartment...although an 80 with a 20 sump...well....55 seems right but there are a couple fish i would like that need a bigger tank. So much to decide...since the company i was having make my tank gave me my deposit back....i'm happier :)


When i get the new tank, gonna have to buy some base rock from ya reefgeek

mr_alberta
03-09-2006, 05:17 AM
Is your apartment wood frame construction or concrete? I have ~130G of water in my wood frame construction apartment as we speak...so far so good *knock on wood*

Pan
03-09-2006, 05:28 AM
Is your apartment wood frame construction or concrete? I have ~130G of water in my wood frame construction apartment as we speak...so far so good *knock on wood*

concrete...landlord said it wwould be ok...i'm just paranoid...3rd floor and all...

Johnny Reefer
03-09-2006, 05:49 AM
You should be okay.
I live on the 4th floor. Wood frame.
180 with 33 sump and 45 top off in the "dining" area.
135 FW and 90 FW Discus tanks in the living area.
135 FOWLR in the bedroom.
Oh ya, and a 10g goldfish/feeder tank, if that counts.
Haven't heard any creaking yet.:wink:
Just make sure your system is resistant to overflowing/flooding as best can be and you shouldn't have anything else (read weight) to worry about, IMO.

Cheers:smile:,

Pan
03-09-2006, 06:01 AM
You should be okay.
I live on the 4th floor. Wood frame.
180 with 33 sump and 45 top off in the "dining" area.
135 FW and 90 FW Discus tanks in the living area.
135 FOWLR in the bedroom.
Oh ya, and a 10g goldfish/feeder tank, if that counts.
Haven't heard any creaking yet.:wink:
Just make sure your system is resistant to overflowing/flooding as best can be and you shouldn't have anything else (read weight) to worry about, IMO.

Cheers:smile:,

do the people below you know whats above their heads :)
thats why i'm not sure about an external overflow....i've heard too many horror stories...

heh...first time i read your post i thought it said 135 FOWLR in bathroom....jeez interesting that would have been :)
whats your fowlr setup like...you use a sump?

Johnny Reefer
03-09-2006, 06:10 AM
The bathroom! Yes! Maybe I could set up a 10g in there.:lol:
There's a thread in the FOWLR forum on the 135 FOWLR. (That reminds me. I need to post an updated pic on that). It doesn't have a sump....yet. No room really and that tank isn't drilled. (I hear ya about the external oveflows. Been down that road and pulled over real fast). Plan on moving within a 1-2 years to ....guess what....a concrete building! I'll put a sump on it then.

BTW....sorry to hear about your ordeal. Kudows for stickin' with it.

Cheers:smile:,

TheReefGeek
03-09-2006, 06:48 PM
Get the tank drilled instead of the overflow box, $20 a hole is well worth it.

I had a 110g and a 50g in an apartment second floor, and it was built in 1950. I just made sure I ran across the beams, not with them, and put the 110 against the wall where it is stronger. The 50 was in the middle of the room with no problems.

mr_alberta
03-09-2006, 07:02 PM
concrete...landlord said it wwould be ok...i'm just paranoid...3rd floor and all...

You're by the University right? Which building?

Also, bacterial blooms can cause cloudy water as well as Calcium percipitating out of the water.

Pan
03-09-2006, 07:05 PM
You're by the University right? Which building?

Also, bacterial blooms can cause cloudy water as well as Calcium percipitating out of the water.

just off gateway boulevard...melrose place...(no jokes)

I dunno what happened...but tank is clear now and on its way to a new cycle...
6 weeks and counting...(well maybe less) (Maybe More)

Anyone know where to get the plastic bracings around the top of aqauriums fixed?

Pan
03-09-2006, 07:06 PM
You should be okay.
I live on the 4th floor. Wood frame.
180 with 33 sump and 45 top off in the "dining" area.
135 FW and 90 FW Discus tanks in the living area.
135 FOWLR in the bedroom.
Oh ya, and a 10g goldfish/feeder tank, if that counts.
Haven't heard any creaking yet.:wink:
Just make sure your system is resistant to overflowing/flooding as best can be and you shouldn't have anything else (read weight) to worry about, IMO.

Cheers:smile:,

you don't eat seafood in front of the tank in the dining area do you?

mr_alberta
03-09-2006, 07:17 PM
just off gateway boulevard...melrose place...(no jokes)

I dunno what happened...but tank is clear now and on its way to a new cycle...
6 weeks and counting...(well maybe less) (Maybe More)

Anyone know where to get the plastic bracings around the top of aqauriums fixed?

Seriously? You live like 3 blocks from me haha.

As for the trim, you usually have to take off the existing one and replace the whole thing (if it is in 1 piece that is).

TheReefGeek
03-09-2006, 07:21 PM
Is the plastic an actual brace, or just for looks? If it is just for looks you dont have to replace it if you dont want.

Pan
03-09-2006, 09:32 PM
Is the plastic an actual brace, or just for looks? If it is just for looks you dont have to replace it if you dont want.

I don't know if it is for looks or a brace....it's on a 55 gallon...i'm thinking of a trade for it, but if it affects the structural integrity..then i'm not sure....can you buy these braces and put them on? How do you take the old one off?

Pan
03-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Seriously? You live like 3 blocks from me haha.

As for the trim, you usually have to take off the existing one and replace the whole thing (if it is in 1 piece that is).


cool...i won't get a new tank i'll just go to your place every 20 minutes :)

gonna have to drive around at night and look for the "porn lights" in the window..least thats what the actinics look like to me...

Pan
03-12-2006, 03:04 AM
Well the little tank is cycling again....all in time now....still havn't decided on the new setup....so many options, have to decide which is the best. A Lot of people have been telling my 55 gallons are too narrow really for reef tanks...is this accurate?

Pan
03-12-2006, 06:25 AM
Okay, nice....I bought two blue devil damsel fish, figuring they would help cycle my tank, then i could put them into the new one...it's coming i'm just not sure on the size yet. So i put them in, acclimating with a little drip line...I tested water yesterday everything read okay. I went and saw a couple movies...and BOTH yes BOTH of them were on the carpet...now i'm not one for signs usually...but someone is trying to tell me something.....

Anyways after scooping them up, and cleaning the carpet i tested the water again...

ammonia 0
ph 7.6 or so
Nitrate 0
nitrite 0.2 or 0.3 or so... (eek)
Alk...Well...off the scale again...well not quite... 3.6 meq/l i would think...at least thats what the test indicates...

SeaHorse_Fanatic
03-12-2006, 06:47 AM
pH should also be in the 8.2-8.4.

50g is too narrow. I don't even like it for my sump because 12" is not wide enough to properly fit my Tunze skimmer box. 18" is good, 24" would be awesome. Unfortunately, very few tanks are made in the 24" wide range so that limits my own options. Ended up going with two 65g 3' by 18" by 2' tall tanks.

Anthony