PDA

View Full Version : KH 170, Ca 260, Can't get it up.


Myanth
02-17-2006, 07:41 AM
I do not have a mg test kit. That will be the first answer I am sure. But here goes.

I have my calcium at 260-280 and cannot get it any higher. I have been using aragamilk and seachem reef calcium. My KH is 170. I should be adding Mg right?

This will lower my KH and allow for more dissolution of Ca.

I think.
Thanks
Mike

seashells
02-17-2006, 07:52 AM
Need to know your Mg readings for a start. Use something like kents dkh superbuffer and turbo calcium to get into range then an ionic combination to maintain. I would read over this link first: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

StirCrazy
02-17-2006, 12:36 PM
I do not have a mg test kit. That will be the first answer I am sure. But here goes.

I have my calcium at 260-280 and cannot get it any higher. I have been using aragamilk and seachem reef calcium. My KH is 170. I should be adding Mg right?

This will lower my KH and allow for more dissolution of Ca.

I think.
Thanks
Mike

Ok, first you need to test your Mg, but you also need to test your ALK and not give us a KH as most probably don't even know what that one is.. I use KH for my fresh water tanks but I don't bother for my salt.

if you can get Alk, Ph, Sg, we could make a pretty good guess of the issue but the only real way to know would be to add Mg in there also.

Steve

Murminator
02-17-2006, 03:46 PM
Mike try the Seachem powder that I use I never have an issue couple teaspoons a week of calcium and Mag.
......as for getting it up I can't help you with that:eek:

Myanth
02-17-2006, 06:18 PM
KH is carbonate hardness, or Alk is it not? And it seems like it is remarkably high. It should be in the 100-120 range and it is 170. I will be double dosing Mg this morning. It has a warning that it can reduce KH, but that's what I want. I will get an Mg test kit soon. I have not dosed Mg at all in this tank but used to have to suppliment weekly in my 10 gallon to keep KH down and Ca up. Hopefully the Ca will come up after that. Has anyone tried the liquid reactor Ca suppliment. The LFS had nothing but good to say about it.

Myanth
02-17-2006, 06:20 PM
It's GH, or general hardness for fresh water, and KH for salt, being the total disolved carbonates, or Alkalinity of the water. It's ability to neutralize acids.

That's how I understood it. I could be wrong.

PH is 8.3,
temp 78-79,
SG 1.025
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <5

Beverly
02-17-2006, 09:06 PM
I have used Aquarium Pharmaceuticals KH test kit for measuring alk in my reefs for years. It's not as refined a test kit as I assume Salifert's would be, but it is still a good test kit.

Myanth, what I don't understand is the number 170. Is that ppm, dKH, meq/L? It's got to be ppm, as dKH and meq/L don't add up to me at all. If you convert the 170 to dKH (should be on your test instructions), what number do you get?

Ruth
02-17-2006, 09:29 PM
IMO you are taking a chance dosing magnesium without testing first to see where it is at and if that is your problem. I would get a mag. test, make sure your calcium and alk/KH tests are not expired and go from there.
If you can't get test kits right away an interim measure may be to do a couple of large water changes as "most" salt mixes are pretty close to being balanced - give or take a little.

Myanth
02-17-2006, 10:25 PM
I am not sure what the 170 is but I'll check when I get home. It says that a normal aquarium should be 100-120 and if you are lower add buffer and higher consult an aquarium store. Using IO salt and have always had this problem. I am using and have always used nano-filtered well water. May have higher disolved solids. Using Nutrifin test kit where you add drops and multiply result by 10. took 17-18 drops to get the lime colour. I will check what the measure is when I get home.

Mike

Ruth
02-17-2006, 10:35 PM
As a good reference point natural sea water has a KH of 8dKH or alkalinity of 2.9 meg/L.

Myanth
02-18-2006, 06:08 AM
okay... so the 170 KH is listed as mg/L. So is the cacium. It is a nutrifin test kit and it says optimal level of Ca is 400-425, I know alot of people are 450-475, and the optimal KH is 105-120 mg/L.

I have added Seachem calcium, powdered, at a rate of 7.5g/40gal. It says that it will raise Ca 18mg/L with each 5g/40gal dose, so I should get a little more increase than that. The maximum daily dose is 10g/40gal. I have mixed up enough top off water to last ten to eleven days at a rate of 7.5g/40gal. I should, after that period be somewhere in the 400 range.

Is this too quick an increase? Should I dilute? And where should the KH really be?

I was going by this test kit and no other knowledge. Since my questioning of it I have seen numbers ranging from 100 - 350. Bev... Ruth? Shine some brilliance on me.

Thanks
Mike

Ruth
02-18-2006, 10:39 AM
You should reveiw Bev's chemistry links that are a sticky in this forum to fully get the whole picture. I like to try to keep my levels at close to NSW (Natural Sea Water) so here is what I try to shoot for - a little more or less is not that big of a deal:
Alk - 2.9 meg/L or KH of 8 dKH
Calcium - 400 - 425 ppm
Magnesium - 1300-1500ppm

I have always used Salifert test kits to test the majority of my levels in my aquariums. They are easy to use and from what I have read fairly accurate. The only one that I am convinced is not very accurate is the Phosphate test kit.

As with everything in this hobby good things happen slowly and bad things happen quickly.

If I was you I would be tempted to either take a sample of your water into a LFS to have it tested or to a friend that has all 3 of the above test kits to double check for accuracy. See where you are at with all 3 and then go from there - slowly adjusting, testing and re-testing. Over the course of a week or two you should be able to adjust.

I can't remember what size of a system you are running but if it is not that big the easiest thing to do may be to just do a few large (50%) water changes.
HTH

Johnny Reefer
02-18-2006, 12:18 PM
.... Using Nutrifin test kit where you add drops and multiply result by 10. took 17-18 drops to get the lime colour. ....
Mike
Hagen kits work the same way. But there is one more step. The kit provides conversion formulas. Multiply that number by 0.056 for dKH. Multiply by 0.02 for meq/l.
170x0.056=9.52dKH.
170x0.02=3.4 meq/l.

I'd say your alk is fine, IMHO.

HTH and cheers,:smile:

Myanth
02-18-2006, 03:57 PM
Found it! Thanks.

The conversion table is in the freshwater section. Didn't see it till this morning.

multiply my 170 reading by 0.056 = dH, 0.07 = Clark H, 0.1 = fH, 0.02 = mEq/L

so I guess I am at 3.4 mEq/L or 9.52 dH in degrees? looks like a degree sign next to it.

Cool. Is this too hard? I'll aim for 2.9 mEq, both the mag and calcium suppliments say that they can lower hardness slightly. I'll get the Ca up and retest.

Thanks all
Mike

Snappy
02-19-2006, 07:10 AM
Mike,
I personally recommend the WM Research products like "Reef Pure". I use the liquid concentrated calcium and their powdered PH and KH buffers. Once you have the desired levels you can use their 2 stage additives to help lock it in and IMO they work well.

medican
02-19-2006, 12:57 PM
ok.....

The drops 17-18

I think you have multiplied that by 10......hence 170 that is mg/l or ppm these 2 are the same thing.

dKH is the German reading I think most saltys use this (could be wrong there...lol)

Lets start at the drops.......

17x10=170
17.85 is a factor
170/17.85=

9.52dKH

now thats not bad at all....IMO

The next one is your Mg I dont think you can move forward untill you know what readings you have.

good luck

P.S. GH is for fresh.......KH is for salt

mr_alberta
02-19-2006, 02:04 PM
:razz: Holy cow! People still do math!? :lol: :mrgreen:

http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/gh_kh_conv_cal.cfm

Beverly
02-19-2006, 02:15 PM
:razz: Holy cow! People still do math!?

Math is good :biggrin: Math is your friend :biggrin: Just keep one of those old fangled calculators on hand. Mine runs when the light is on :wink:

mr_alberta
02-19-2006, 02:28 PM
Just keep one of those old fangled calculators on hand. Mine runs when the light is on :wink:

One of these? http://www.chinavista.com/experience/abacus/suanpan.jpg:razz:

Beverly
02-19-2006, 02:36 PM
Hey, I'm old, but not that freaking old :lol: More like this and it was cheap, too :mrgreen:

http://www.eaiusa.com/images/Casio/Sl-450.gif

Myanth
02-19-2006, 06:30 PM
Thanks huys. I will endeavor to find an Mg test kit. Ca is up to 300 this morning, seeing great white borders to my coraline and my green star has at least 6 new heads this morning. It hasn't grown at all since transplanting to the new tank.

I have been using the top up solution that I made and will keep using it until my readings are in the 425-475 range. Had some precip in the bottom of the top up container. I thought that was pretty normal. Have been monitoring Alk and it has not moved.

Yippee. :biggrin:

Mike.

P.S. in the 21st century they have computers... under the accessories there is a calculator function. It is much smaller than the abacus or the solar powered... if you ignore the tower/monitor/printer/scanner/computer desk/etc. involved with it. On second thought... does anyone have a spare abacus lying around.

StirCrazy
02-19-2006, 07:59 PM
[quote=Myanth]

I have been using the top up solution that I made and will keep using it until my readings are in the 425-475 range. quote]

thats a little high, you might want to shoot for between 380 and 400.

Steve