Warning! Potential Problem with Kent Salt.

[Psyire]

Apparently there is a potential problem with Kent Salt.

There has been some reports of problems with 200g bucket salt mix composition.

The problem is an extremly low alkalinity. (below 1 dKH)

Possibly from not adding sodium bicarbonate to the mixture.

Kent apparently switched factories from Instant Ocean to Coralife and this problem has developed. (New buckets have Yellow in the logo/image)

If you are using Kent salt that was purchased recently I would urge you to test your water to avoid any potential catastrophies.

More info: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=760882

***This is not good news for people who were just in on the Group Buy in Edmonton, however I haven't had a chance to test the salt recieved in that specific order. So I am unsure if they have fixed the problem by now or not. If you were in on the order and can test this salt ASAP, that would be good. If not, I should have results in a few days. I'm hoping they fixed the problem a couple weeks ago when it was first noticed.

[Willow]

oh dang, this would explain why my alk has been so ridiculously low. bastages! any idea on if we can get these buckets replaced?

[Chin_Lee]

well thats would seem to explain my corals sliming after the first time I did a water change with the yellow logo Kent salt. I also noticed a significant drop of alk after the water change so my second water change, i used 50% IO and 50% Kent and it went well without any sliming.
Is there any plans for this batch of Kent to be rectified?

[Willow]

reading that rc thread it sure doesnt sound like it. im going to email them tonight.

[untamed]

That is a huge problem for Kent. That is one ugly discussion. I have used nothing but Kent salt for 13 years. I guess I got lucky because I've only been using the 50 gallon bags and it didn't hit me. I've been very careless about measuring the freshly mixed SW.

I think the expensive question I'm asking is..."How could an error that significant happen?...and what does that mean for the less significant (but also important) elements of the salt?" It suggests to me that there is very poor quality control going on in their production, and that is enough to scare me away.

There is a huge level of trust that aquarists place in their salt manufacturer. I had assumed that the salt I was using was subject to testing such that something like this just could not happen. I was incorrect.

[Psyire]

Things aren't getting any better...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=766263

[Matt]

Scary thread, BUT I just tested the dregs from my mix from this recent group salt order. dKH is 9. I don't know if that is good enough, but it is within acceptable range, I think.

Again, KENT, 200g pail, Edmonton Group Salt buy, 9dKH

Matt

[Psyire]

Whew... that takes alittle off my mind. I plan to do some more testing as well, but perhaps they fixed the problem.

Thanks Matt.

[Psyire]

People have different opinions on where dKH should be, but 9 is more than acceptable.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Dang. Like so many other local reefers, we picked up a bucket of Yellow labelled Kent's at the Boxing Day sales. If it is a bad batch, Kent should really step up & replace people's buckets with good ones.

[Ruth]

Holy Cow! I was one of the unfortunate ones a few years ago that got in on the bad batch of Instant Ocean that had way too high of ALK. The reason that to this day I will not use Instant Ocean or Kent (because they were made by the same people) although that does not appear to be the case with this batch. There was such an outcry with the IO that they ended up sending out checks to people that had used this salt. I know that I got a check for around $1800 but it still did not compensate the pain and frustration of completely crashing my system. I actually got out of the hobby for over a year because of this.

[Willow]

Holy Cow! I was one of the unfortunate ones a few years ago that got in on the bad batch of Instant Ocean that had way too high of ALK. The reason that to this day I will not use Instant Ocean or Kent (because they were made by the same people) although that does not appear to be the case with this batch. There was such an outcry with the IO that they ended up sending out checks to people that had used this salt. I know that I got a check for around $1800 but it still did not compensate the pain and frustration of completely crashing my system. I actually got out of the hobby for over a year because of this.

what brand of salt are you using now ruth?

[Ruth]

I use the new Seachem reef salt in my 190g that I am using the zeovit method on and Tropic Marin pro on all my other tanks. I have tested newly mixed batches of both salts and posted the results on other links. So far very happy with both.

[Willow]

do you mind me asking where i can ever buy the seachem reef salt? it looks pretty good.

[Ruth]

Let's see I bought 3 boxes from AI in Edmonton as I was desparate for salt - that is one store I try my best not to support. I got my buckets from BlkHawk (Joshua). I know that Island Aquatics in Duncan was talking about carrying it but not sure if they have gotten it in yet. FWIW I am also very happy with the Tropic Marin pro salt and that I have been getting from reef perfections out of Ontario because he just has his sister bring it out to Abbotsford. He charged me $50 to ship 8 buckets at Christmas and I have just ordered another 8 buckets which I will pick up at Easter.

[Beverly]

Whew!!!!!

Just mixed up 2g of RO/DI water (heated and aerated since Sunday, Feb 12) with the Kent salt from one pail from our recent Edmonton group order. All of our pails have a yellow Kent logo. Salt in pails is in a sealed bag, which I have never seen before with any salt I've used (IO and Kent) since I started reefkeeping back in the mid-90s.

Results:

dKH - 8.5 (using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit)
Temp - 79 F (using Hagen stick on tank temp gauge)
SG - 1.026 (using refractometer)
pH - 8.26 (using a Pinpoint pH probe and Hanna Instrument pH controller digital readout)

Am not going to worry about the rest of the five pails, though I am certainly going to wait awhile before ordering more salt, just in case.

[BMW Rider]

Dang, I just ordered two pails of Kent salt. I will see when they get here what batch they are by testing the mix. I hope they are ok, if not I'll be contacting Kent for a suppliment or replacement pails. Thanks for the heads up on this issue.

[Psyire]

Thanks for the test results Bev.

Do you have anyway of testing Calcium & Magnesium? I'm curious to see what they are at. If not, that's fine. It'll be a few days but I'll be able to test these eventually.

[Beverly]

Did the tests shortly after getting out of bed this morning and didn't have time to test Mg or Ca.

[Ruth]

Bev was the salt mixing in the water for 24hrs heated and aireated? I know that I have gotten different readings after the salt has been in the water for 24 or 48 hours.

[Beverly]

Ruth,

The RO/DI water had been heated and aerated since last Sunday after the water change. The salt was added, fully dissolved, then aerated for about 20-30 minutes before testing.

BTW, we mix the salt into the heated and fully aerated RO/DI water not longer than 24 hours before using. After about 36 hours, we've noticed that something precipitates out of the salted water, which could explain your different readings. Or, if you start out with cool, unaerated RO water when you add the salt, you could also get different readings after it has been aerated and heated with the salt in it.

[Ruth]

That doesn't make sense to me. If it is going to percipitate out in a mixing bucket aireated and heated it is certainly going to continue to percipitate out in your tank aireated and heated.

[Beverly]

Maybe it's the mixing container (rubbermaid trashcan) that causes the problem, though when we used a glass aquarium years back, there was precipitation after a period of time, too. I think in a tank all kinds of chemical reactions happen with various components of the saltwater, and unless one chemical component is seriously out of whack, there won't be any precipitation.

Really, I don't know. I'm only guessing. But these have been my observations.

If we have leftover saltwater after a water change, we just dilute the leftover water more RO/DI water. Precipitation does not occur then.

[Matt]

Beverly,

Last night, I also tested the Kent from the recent group order and got a dKH of 9. I also used an Aquarium Pharm test kit, and it doesn't have the .5 resolution you mention. 1 drop of reagent = 1dKH. Are you interpolating between two drops, or did you use 2ml of water and halve your input drops?

Matthew

[Ruth]

Still doesn't make sense. I know people (myself included at time that keep mixed up salt water, heated and aeriated) in case an emergency water change is needed. I also use a rubbermaid trash can and have never noticed anything percipitating out. I have noticed changed on freshly mixed water in the first 24 hours but not after that. I mean most of the trace elements, calcium and alk. that goes into our tanks comes from our salt water. The only other chemical to cause a reaction are those that we add and I don't think we would want to be adding anything that is going to make calcium, alk/DKH, or mag. percipitate out (those being the most common things we test for and really all I test newly mixed salt water for). What have you noticed that has percipitated out after 24 hours? Just curiious and trying to understand this.

[adidas]

Salt in pails is in a sealed bag, which I have never seen before with any salt I've used (IO and Kent) since I started reefkeeping back in the mid-90s.


I have Coralife salt bucket and the salt is in 3 sealed bags.

[Ruth]

Tropic Marin is in one big bag inside the bucket as well. I haven't opened any of the Seachem buckets yet as I am using the boxes up first and they each contain 3 50g bags.

[Beverly]

Matt,

I don't know what "interpolating" means :razz:

What I did was add one drop at a time, then mix as per directions. At drop #8, the colour changed from blue to green. From experience, I know that the next drop will turn it yellow. So I am guesstimating that the real dKH is 8.5 from the intermediate green colour.

Maybe that's "interpolating"?

Ruth,

I have no idea what is precipitating out of the saltwater mix after 36 hours. I don't test my NSW, and am not really that curious to know what precipitates out. I just know to use it within 24 hours after salting it. Sorry I can't be of more help here.

[Ruth]

[QUOTE=Beverly]

After about 36 hours, we've noticed that something precipitates out of the salted water, which could explain your different readings. QUOTE]

I have never noticed anything precipitating out of mine and just wondered what you had noticed out of yours. Maybe I am missing something here.

[dirtyreefer]

do you mind me asking where i can ever buy the seachem reef salt? it looks pretty good.

I saw it at King Ed's yesterday, both the pail and the 50 gal bags. Didn't look at the price though, but I did remember when I saw it that Ruth mentioned that it was pretty good. Maybe it's time to give it a try, since the outside packaging even mentions that the calcium and magnesium are sufficient

[Beverly]

I have never noticed anything precipitating out of mine and just wondered what you had noticed out of yours. Maybe I am missing something here.

Three things we have noticed that indicate precipitation...

1. white chalky ring around the rubbermaid container at the water line, which is easy to remove with a sponge

2. white chalky residue around the sides below the water line and at the bottom of the rubbermaid container, which is relatively easy to remove with a sponge

3. white chalky stuff adhering to heaters and powerheads, which require vinegar to remove

This is with both IO and Kent salts. Have never used other salts for comparison.

[Ruth]

Aahh now I know what your talking about. I have gotten that as well just never noticed that it only showed up after 24 hours. I have had it after 2 hours or 36 hours and I don't really know what it is either as I have never tried to put it in water and run tests on it.
I guess what I was trying to figure out was how levels of the various things that we test for would change from 24hrs to 36hrs or more (except if there is much evaporation). I wonder though if this may be borine? Don't know. The only time I have observed changes in common tests is during the first 24hrs. after newly mixing. I have tested IO, Seachem, Formula and Tropic Marin.

[kari]

I've been kind of patiently waiting for the Seachem salt to hit the market around here to give it a go. Sort of lost my faith in the IO and Kent over the last few years. Both have been losing thier quality standards apparently.

[Ruth]

You know Kari when this salt first came out I sent Seachem an e-mail about where to purchase it and they referred me to a place in Calgary that does their wholesale ordering. I will have to check back in my e-mails to see if I kept the person's name etc. I did contact her but was not given much help unless I wanted to retail the salt (which I didn't - not much of a market in Fort St. John!)

[Ruth]

Just found the information. This is the information that Seachem gave me:
Cichlid Wholesale can be reached at 403 720 8355 or diana@cichlid.ca
It might be worth a try if you are interested.

[kari]

Thanks Ruth,
Should try purchasing a pallet or two of salt and set a group buy thing for the locals.

[Willow]

king eds in vancouver had a few pails of the seachem reef salt, it was 79 bucks a bucket, thats 30 bucks more a bucket than kent so i need to think about this before i switch.

[IPZ]

Hello all,

For those who are interested, I am working on a pallet price deal with Seachem for their new salt mixes. I should have pricing confirmed this weekend and will post some prices no later than Monday.

Cheers...

Scott
Island Pet Zone

[Denis]

Heads up, I just tested my bucket (what was left of it) and got dKH = 1.
I purchased it from J&L on Dec. 8th.
Does anyone know if J&L is replacing these?

[Beverly]

Don't know. Why not contact J&L and let us know what they say.

[rickjames]

I just tested a new bucket that I bought about 1 month ago at J&L, luckily haven't used it yet. I screwed up a little on the salt mix so these levels should adjust to even lower at 35ppt. I tested salinity with a refractometer and Alk with a salifert test kit:

Old bucket of kent @ 38ppt:
10.9 dkh

New bucket of kent @ 39ppt:
3.6 dkh

:cry: Going to email J&L tommorow and buy a new bucket of Seachem.

[Willow]

I just tested a new bucket that I bought about 1 month ago at J&L, luckily haven't used it yet. I screwed up a little on the salt mix so these levels should adjust to even lower at 35ppt. I tested salinity with a refractometer and Alk with a salifert test kit:

Old bucket of kent @ 38ppt:
10.9 dkh

New bucket of kent @ 39ppt:
3.6 dkh

:cry: Going to email J&L tommorow and buy a new bucket of Seachem.

i dont think they carry seachem.

[Denis]

I just send an email to J&L too.
They carry Crystal Sea Salt Mix. Is this mix any good?

[Johnny Reefer]

Great.
I have a full bucket of the yellow logo Kent.
Man!:rolleyes:

Cheers,:smile:

[Funky_Fish14]

Doesnt mean its bad! Some seems to have turned out alright.

I will test my yellow logo bucket tomorow. I bought it on boxing day from AI. I'll post results tomorow.

Chris

[Snappy]

I have always used "Reef Crystals" and found it to be a very good and reliable product.

[rickjames]

i dont think they carry seachem.

IPZ here does.

[rickjames]

I just tested a new bucket that I bought about 1 month ago at J&L, luckily haven't used it yet. I screwed up a little on the salt mix so these levels should adjust to even lower at 35ppt. I tested salinity with a refractometer and Alk with a salifert test kit:

Old bucket of kent @ 38ppt:
10.9 dkh

New bucket of kent @ 39ppt:
3.6 dkh

:cry: Going to email J&L tommorow and buy a new bucket of Seachem.

I was thinking about this this morning wondering why I got 3.6dkh, higher then everyone else. Then I remembered that I used about 3 cups of salt from the old bucket out of 14 total, which would explain my higher reading. :redface:

[whatever]

Anyone get a response from Kent on what they plan to do about this bad batch of salt? Also what is Kent telling their retailers and, what do the retailers of the kent products plan on doing for their customers, if anything, who bought the bad salt?

[Beverly]

For information on what Kent has been doing regarding their bad batch of salt, refer to the RC link in the first post in this thread.

[Xtasia]

No offense.. but regardless of cost, since when was it ever acceptable for a company NOT to take back their defective product which results in disastrous results to their clients.

It's a facet of business.. and expense.

This behavior of Kent's is unacceptable

[Denis]

Just got responce from J&L:
----------------------------------------------------------
Two options since you are local:

1. Send sample to Kent, and they will replace bucket of salt
2. Bring in bucket and we'll replace.

If anyone orders Kent salt we are informing them before shipping. I was told
by Kent that it was one batch (70 buckets). If that is the case then not all
of ours is bad.

Allen
------------------------------------------------------------------

I love these guys.

[Chin_Lee]

I wonder whats the likelihood that 70 buckets were distributed all over the US and Canada to have this defective batch of salt? I think they are either -
- in a damage control mode,
- have a severe underestimation of the problem
- a typo (700 instead of 70)

But regardless if JL is willing to replace, now THAT is customer service. Kuddos for them



Just got responce from J&L:
----------------------------------------------------------
Two options since you are local:

1. Send sample to Kent, and they will replace bucket of salt
2. Bring in bucket and we'll replace.

If anyone orders Kent salt we are informing them before shipping. I was told
by Kent that it was one batch (70 buckets). If that is the case then not all
of ours is bad.

Allen
------------------------------------------------------------------

I love these guys.

[Beverly]

Just got responce from J&L:
----------------------------------------------------------
If anyone orders Kent salt we are informing them before shipping. I was told
by Kent that it was one batch (70 buckets). If that is the case then not all
of ours is bad.

Allen[/I]
------------------------------------------------------------------

Somehow I don't believe it was just 70 buckets. I mean, think about the assembly line process. If those 70 buckets came off the conveyer belt, they would have been loaded onto pallets of 24 buckets each. That would mean there would have been 3.916666 pallets (used my calculator :biggrin: ) of bad salt. So how did, say, 4 pallets of salt make it so far around Kent's distribution network?

From the RC thread here is a list, so far, of people and their locations that got the bad salt...

doccarbon, Tecumseh, MI
scyphozoa, no location listed
turbodiesel01, Berryville, AR
aquaconnect, Aurora (no state named)
E-A-G-L-E-S, Lehigh Valley, PA
jmicky41, Indiana

And then from this thread (both could be from one source) ....

Denis, Abbotsford,BC
Brennan, Duncan, BC

Methinks me smells a rat :evil:

[Jim Barry]

I just tested my new bucket of Yellow label Kent salt that I received from Ocean Aquatics 2 weeks ago.

the water tested at 1.9 dkh at specific gravity of 1.025 (using a refractometer)

If you received any salt from Ocean Aquatics in the last while.... make sure you test it !!!


Jim

[Psyire]

I read somewhere else that it was around 100 pails. But yeah, I agree with Bev and I think it's probably closer to 25 pallets.

[Willow]

I just tested my new bucket of Yellow label Kent salt that I received from Ocean Aquatics 2 weeks ago.

the water tested at 1.9 dkh at specific gravity of 1.025 (using a refractometer)

If you received any salt from Ocean Aquatics in the last while.... make sure you test it !!!


Jim

oa in vancouver is still working off of the older buckets of kent salt. i have 1 bad pail and i have another so im not sure i want to open it.

[Ruth]

I would be willing to bet that it is a lot more than that if the distribution is that wide. When they had the problem a few years ago with Instant Ocean it was restricted geographically to (for the most part) the West Coast and yet the damage that was done to peoples tanks was devastating.
This certainly does a lot of damage to Kent's reputation and does not say much for their quality control to let events like this happen twice in the last 5-6 years, to say nothing of how much it will cost them at the end of the day both in actual monitary costs as well as a loss of customers. They lost me as a customer for their salt products during their last 'event' and this only confirms my fears.

[BMW Rider]

I just got my two buckets from J&L Frioday. I opened one and mixed a test batch today. Its one of the bad ones too; 1.3 dhk @ 1.026 SG. I will have to get hold of J&L to see about replacement or suppliments. I didn't get any warning when I ordered it, but I think it was before this problem became known.

[beaker020]

after reading this thread I tested my salt yesterday and came up with:
Alk 1.9dKH
pH 8.2
Ca 620ppm
Temp 78F
SG 1.025

I've been wondering why my calcium and alk and PH readings seemed so out of whack. The more I did water changes the worse it got. Now it all makes sense.

I purchased mine from a small local independant LFS. They were unaware of it until I notified them yesterday. They are checking into it and I'm sure they will take care of me.

[JasonJ]

i dont want to read 3 pages.
but does this include the 50gal bags too?
i got a bag of kent salt during boxing day.

[Psyire]

Seems to be specific to buckets, but I'd definately check it out before using.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Just wondering. Anybody bring their's back yet? Probably going in later this week.

[Chad]

This is a response I recieved from Kent

Good morning Chad,
Thank you for contacting us on this matter. We are aware of a batch of salt that was released with sub-par alkalinity; the cause of the problem has been addressed and rectified. This is the first time in the history of Kent Marine that there has ever been an issue with the salt, and we would like to offer our sincerest apologies for the inconvenience it has caused. If you can send us a 1-lb. sample of the salt for verification, we will test it immediately and then, pending the test results, replace the bucket you have on hand with new ones.

Please send the salt sample to the following address:

Kent Marine
c/o John Groff
1100 Northpoint Parkway
Acworth, GA 30102

The buckets were in the process of being lot numbered at the time that the issue occurred, and of course Murphy’s Law dictates that any problems will happen when it’s the least convenient, so a recall on buckets is unfeasible, and also unnecessary due to the small batch size that the issue was limited to. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at the phone number listed below.

[Chin_Lee]

does anybody know what if i've got 4 buckets of this stuff? should I send in 4 x 1 lb sample?

Chad can you provide the email address?

This is a response I recieved from Kent

Good morning Chad,
Thank you for contacting us on this matter. We are aware of a batch of salt that was released with sub-par alkalinity; the cause of the problem has been addressed and rectified. This is the first time in the history of Kent Marine that there has ever been an issue with the salt, and we would like to offer our sincerest apologies for the inconvenience it has caused. If you can send us a 1-lb. sample of the salt for verification, we will test it immediately and then, pending the test results, replace the bucket you have on hand with new ones.

Please send the salt sample to the following address:

Kent Marine
c/o John Groff
1100 Northpoint Parkway
Acworth, GA 30102

The buckets were in the process of being lot numbered at the time that the issue occurred, and of course Murphy’s Law dictates that any problems will happen when it’s the least convenient, so a recall on buckets is unfeasible, and also unnecessary due to the small batch size that the issue was limited to. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at the phone number listed below.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Do they cover shipping because sending that much salt is going to cost a lot.

[Chad]

CR Brightwell <kentmarine@verizon.net>

They did not mention paying the costs of shipping, I assume they do not.

I have not tested my bucket from J&L yet. I got this one on boxing day. Anyone get theirs on boxing day with this issue?

[IslandReefer]

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.
When ever I start a new bucket of salt, I test the Alk,Ca,Mg,pH at 1.025.
Doing this solves 2 common problems :
1) Is my test kit accurate and/or getting old....IO/Kent and many other salt mixes have their parameters published to compare to. If you do this for every bucket/box after a while you can see the variability in the salt QC and your testing....with good records this makes a measured salt mix a good standard for comparing test kits etc.
2) Find out about a bad bucket of salt before killing your reef!.....find out about that mixing screw-up ....before killing your reef.....find out about that bad electrode/test kit/uncalibrated refractometer....before!:mrgreen:

This is a standard lab practice...I didn't realize it wasn't common with reefers.......esp after the IO high alk event! We use about 4 200gal buckets per year...making the extra test costs less than $10 GOOD insurance IMHO. and I highly recomend it.

Cheers John

[Ruth]

Boy I agree with John and is something that I always do as well. The IO event definately taught me the importance of doing this but it is also just good practice because if you have to adjust any of these levels it is far easier to do in your change water than to start mucking (sorry Ryan) with your display and chance getting everything out of whack there.

[zulu_principle]

Kent Salt

If you have purchased Kent Salt from us.

Return the bucket to us for exchange or send the sample back to Kent.

If you send the sample back to kent keep the receipt for the cost of the shipping and i'll give you a store credit for that amount.

Please feel free to call or email me with any questions you might have.

wendell@oceanaquatics.com

604-940-1988 or 1-800-605-0914


Wendell

[IPZ]

Hello All.

Although my company was not affected by the recent Kent salt problems, I would like to offer the following to anyone on Vancouver Island who recived defective Kent salt.

Regardless of where your Kent salt was purchased from , I will exchange your defective bucket with a bucket of the New Seachem Reef Salt.

If you have a bucket or buckets that you wish to exchange, please feel free to PM me or call me at the store to make arrangements.

For those looking to try the new Seachem Reef Salt, please have a look at the vendors forum. I will be posting prices as well as bulk pallet prices for those of you who wish to take advantage of a group buy.

Cheers...

Scott
Island Pet Zone

[rickjames]

Scott,

You rock buddy! :mrgreen:

[midgetwaiter]

Just got responce from J&L:
----------------------------------------------------------
Two options since you are local:

1. Send sample to Kent, and they will replace bucket of salt
2. Bring in bucket and we'll replace.

If anyone orders Kent salt we are informing them before shipping. I was told
by Kent that it was one batch (70 buckets). If that is the case then not all
of ours is bad.

Allen
------------------------------------------------------------------

I love these guys.


I read that as J&L got one bad batch of 70 rather than Kent only shipped 70, which would make more sense.

[BMW Rider]

I read that as J&L got one bad batch of 70 rather than Kent only shipped 70, which would make more sense.

I spoke with J&L yesterday about my two buckets. He said that's what they had - 70 buckets of the bad stuff, none of the good stuff, so they had none to ship to me as replacements. They gave me the contact info for Kent and said that it is best for me to deal directly with them, but if I had any trouble, they would look after things for me. I sent an e-mail to Kent yesterday afternoon, and am waiting for their reply. I will be getting my two 1lb samples ready to ship off as soon as I get the full instructions from them. I expect they'll want to see proof of purchase for the two buckets, so I'll include a copy of my receipt. I don't want them to think I'm sending two samples from one bucket or something and delay the replacement.

I am also going to have to find some salt here in town now since I have only about two weeks supply left. Thats the reason I ordered these two buckets, I didn't want to run short. I don't expect I'll see the new buckets of salt for at least a month with shipping and such. What a PITA :rolleyes: Anyone know who in Calgary currently has Kent salt (50 gallon bags) in stock?

[Chin_Lee]

Ed
can you verify with Kent what to do if you don't have a receipt? I don't know about most people but unlike electronics, its not a common practice for me to keep receipts for salt that I buy from a store.

I spoke with J&L yesterday about my two buckets. He said that's what they had - 70 buckets of the bad stuff, none of the good stuff, so they had none to ship to me as replacements. They gave me the contact info for Kent and said that it is best for me to deal directly with them, but if I had any trouble, they would look after things for me. I sent an e-mail to Kent yesterday afternoon, and am waiting for their reply. I will be getting my two 1lb samples ready to ship off as soon as I get the full instructions from them. I expect they'll want to see proof of purchase for the two buckets, so I'll include a copy of my receipt. I don't want them to think I'm sending two samples from one bucket or something and delay the replacement.

I am also going to have to find some salt here in town now since I have only about two weeks supply left. Thats the reason I ordered these two buckets, I didn't want to run short. I don't expect I'll see the new buckets of salt for at least a month with shipping and such. What a PITA :rolleyes: Anyone know who in Calgary currently has Kent salt (50 gallon bags) in stock?

[Chad]

They never asked for proof of receipt when I talked to Kent. Just that I sent the sample.

[seashells]

Gee!!!

I don't feel so bad missing out on the big salt boxing day sale now! Looks like it saved me from lots of headache.

Doug

[michika]

Scott,

You are awesome!

Thank you!

[Willow]

Gee!!!

I don't feel so bad missing out on the big salt boxing day sale now! Looks like it saved me from lots of headache.

Doug

i don't think it mattered if you bought salt on boxing day or last week, it's all bad.

[Beverly]

i don't think it mattered if you bought salt on boxing day or last week, it's all bad.

Untrue and totally annoying :rolleyes: (Thanks, Harvey, for the use of your amazingly accurate graph for this post!)

http://members.shaw.ca/harvwong/smartchart.jpg



The pallet of 200g Kent salt we ordered from IPZ earlier this month tested at 8.5 - 9 dKH. See my and Matt's previous posts a few pages back for more detailed info on our test results.

[BMW Rider]

Ed
can you verify with Kent what to do if you don't have a receipt? I don't know about most people but unlike electronics, its not a common practice for me to keep receipts for salt that I buy from a store.

The only reason I have my receipt is because I just got the salt last week. This issue came to my attention between the time I order it and when I got it. Talk about poor timing.

They never asked for proof of receipt when I talked to Kent. Just that I sent the sample.

My concern is that I have two buckets and I want to be sure they are aware of that fact when I send them two samples. Good to hear that they are not making it a requirement though.

[Willow]

well woopdeddoo bev all the local shops in vancouver are all working off of the same batches with the yellow labels. they problem is you cant tell if you have a good or bad bucket until you open it up, if its bad you can't return it!

[seashells]

i don't think it mattered if you bought salt on boxing day or last week, it's all bad.


I still have enough salt to last till end May. But at $36 for a bucket I figured a good idea to just stock up. So hopefully by the time I need more salt the problem will be resolved.

Doug

[Beverly]

well woopdeddoo bev all the local shops in vancouver are all working off of the same batches with the yellow labels. they problem is you cant tell if you have a good or bad bucket until you open it up, if its bad you can't return it!

Again, UNTRUE!!!!

Kent Salt

If you have purchased Kent Salt from us.

Return the bucket to us for exchange or send the sample back to Kent.

If you send the sample back to kent keep the receipt for the cost of the shipping and i'll give you a store credit for that amount.

Please feel free to call or email me with any questions you might have.

wendell@oceanaquatics.com

604-940-1988 or 1-800-605-0914


Wendell

AND

Just got responce from J&L:
----------------------------------------------------------
Two options since you are local:

1. Send sample to Kent, and they will replace bucket of salt
2. Bring in bucket and we'll replace.

If anyone orders Kent salt we are informing them before shipping. I was told
by Kent that it was one batch (70 buckets). If that is the case then not all
of ours is bad.

Allen
------------------------------------------------------------------

I love these guys.



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[marie]

sigh, if anyone is keeping count, the bucket of salt my husband picked up for me is one of the low dkh ones :cry: . It's not like i can just run to the closest lfs to pick up some more either and I'm in the process of filling my 175g bowfront:twised:

[Johnny Reefer]

I spoke with J&L yesterday about my two buckets. He said that's what they had - 70 buckets of the bad stuff, none of the good stuff, so they had none to ship to me as replacements. Surely they'll be getting some good stuff in soon. Does it have to be replaced today? Just buy some good salt from somewhere local to tide you over, IMO.

This business of sending a pound of the stuff to Kent sounds ridiculous to me. A whole pound! I don't think so. They must have sophisticated labs where all they would need is a teaspoon of the stuff, at the most, to determine the alk. I don't know...I'm no chemist by any stretch....but I think there just hoping that most people will balk at shipping a whole pound and that reduces their loss, but still look good by makin' the offer. JMHO.

Cheers,:smile:

[Xtasia]

Earth to Bev... at the risk of sounding like I'm explaining the obvious to someone "extra special" he's trying to say that the dmg is so obviously wide spread that people who bought the salt on boxing day (me) are having the same poor salt problems as people who bought their salt a few days ago. In this, he is agreeing with you.

Untrue and totally annoying :rolleyes: (Thanks, Harvey, for the use of your amazingly accurate graph for this post!)

The pallet of 200g Kent salt we ordered from IPZ earlier this month tested at 8.5 - 9 dKH. See my and Matt's previous posts a few pages back for more detailed info on our test results.

[Funky_Fish14]

This business of sending a pound of the stuff to Kent sounds ridiculous to me. A whole pound! I don't think so. They must have sophisticated labs where all they would need is a teaspoon of the stuff, at the most, to determine the alk. I don't know...I'm no chemist by any stretch....but I think there just hoping that most people will balk at shipping a whole pound and that reduces their loss, but still look good by makin' the offer. JMHO.

Cheers,:smile:

Ditto that. I was thinking that myself, but had no idea of why they might do it, definetly sounds like a feasable suggestion!

Chris

[untamed]

Its possible that Kent is trying to protect itself from being ripped off by clever aquarists who work in groups. One bad bucket...divided up among several hundred people one teaspoon each translates into a great big scam! By making people send in a substantial amount, it might reduce the scamming.

Not that I agree with their decision...I merely offer another explanation for what seems like an odd policy.

[Psyire]

Or they are dumping all the 'pounds' together and adding the missing ingredient, then selling it back to us. lol

[BMW Rider]

I recieved a call from John Groff at Kent yesterday and got the same request for a 1lb sample from each pail. He said that for their US customers they were prepaying the shipping through UPS, but that was not possible with international shippments. He said he "would look after me later", but did not provide any detail on that. I sent the two one pound samples off yesterday with UPS; total shipping cost was $21.54 for standard service plus a $1.80 for a packing box from Staples (great timing to have just taken all my cardboard boxes to recycling :rolleyes: ). I did check Canada post for shipping rates too. It would have been approximatly $12 to send it with them, but the delivery time would have been longer.

To be fair to Kent, John seemed genuinly concerned about this issue and was very quick at responding to my e-mail. He phoned me while I happened to be out, I called back and left a voicemail for him and he called again within 20 minutes. For a big company that is a very good response to a customers problem. I won't make any judgment on Kent until I get the final resolution on this, so far I am satisfied with the way they are dealing with it.

As for why they need a full pound of salt to test, I can only make assumptions. Probably they want to ensure that it is a large enough sample to allow for multiple tests. Also a very small sample may not accuratly represent the chemical mix in the salt.

[Matt]

sigh, if anyone is keeping count, the bucket of salt my husband picked up for me is one of the low dkh ones :cry: . It's not like i can just run to the closest lfs to pick up some more either and I'm in the process of filling my 175g bowfront:twised:I'm told that you can adjust the alk pretty easily with baking soda (sodium bicarb). It beats the heck out of a long drive and expensive shipping...

From advanced aquarist (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm) To raise 50 gallons of tank water by 1 meq/L will require about 16 grams of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate; sodium hydrogencarbonate). Since a level teaspoon of baking soda weighs just under 6 grams, then 1 teaspoon will raise the alkalinity in that 50 gallons by ~0.4 meq/L (~1 dKH).

[Chowder]

I too have gotten a bad bach of salt . I emailed Kent Tuesday and John Groff called me yesturday. He did try to set up UPS to pick up my salt sample from me at there cost but was unfortunatly unable to do it across the border. I was also contacted by a Chris (didn't get his last name) . I sent the email to a couple of there contact emails. I was impressed by the quick response. I too like BMW Rider was told that they would give me something extra for my hassle. he also came across genuily concerned about this matter. I am waiting to find out what happens with this to make my judgement. I would urge anyone who has questions or is unhappy about this to email Kent and let them now at kentmarine@verizon.net

[Psyire]

I'm told that you can adjust the alk pretty easily with baking soda (sodium bicarb). It beats the heck out of a long drive and expensive shipping...

From advanced aquarist (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm) To raise 50 gallons of tank water by 1 meq/L will require about 16 grams of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate; sodium hydrogencarbonate). Since a level teaspoon of baking soda weighs just under 6 grams, then 1 teaspoon will raise the alkalinity in that 50 gallons by ~0.4 meq/L (~1 dKH).


I wouldn't recommend this as Kent has never said exactly what was wrong with that shipment. For all we know some mystery ingredient was added that dropped the ALK and is deadly to our aquatic friends. Be safe and replace the salt.

[BMW Rider]

I wouldn't recommend this as Kent has never said exactly what was wrong with that shipment. For all we know some mystery ingredient was added that dropped the ALK and is deadly to our aquatic friends. Be safe and replace the salt.

My thoughts exactly. I know the alkalinity is off, but what else is too? I will not use it at all until I here from them what the situation is.

[Chad]

Well I tested my bucket last night and unfortunately, my bucket is screweed as well.

I fired off another letter to Kent, I was thinking this morning, if they send us a new bucket through UPS, we would have to pay a 30 - 50$ brokrage fee. I wonder if they could just send a pallet of replacement buckets to one place so we can all just pick it up from there. Of course I am talking about all the local LOWER mainlanders that are affected by this.

[whatever]

FYI I took my bad bucket into J&L and was given full credit for the bucket with no hassles what-so-ever. They simply subtracted the cost of one bucket of Kent salt from my total purchases.

Thanks Allen.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Allen told me that as long as we bring in our receipt, we will get the credit.

[Chad]

Allen told me that as long as we bring in our receipt, we will get the credit.

I don't usualy keep a receipt from that long ago.. I may be lucky and find it but I doubt it.

[Chin_Lee]

Have anybody got replacement buckets from KENT? Any updates? I sent an email a week ago and i haven't received a reply so I'm wondering if something else is going on......

[Willow]

i was at j&l the other day, all their kent salt was bad. they said it's all going back and they have no replacments yet. i also noticed that all the king eds salt was from the bad batch.

[Chad]

Have anybody got replacement buckets from KENT? Any updates? I sent an email a week ago and i haven't received a reply so I'm wondering if something else is going on......

I got a call from John at Kent Marine, they confirmed I had a bad batch, he is sending me an email on my options. Apparently I might even be able to get some lighting products? who knows. Anyways.. he told me the old salt is still good, just needs to be buffered.

He told me my Alk was 0.913 and my Cal was 600 something.

[DanG]

You can buffer alk up, but how do you get calcium down to 400 from 600?

[Chad]

You can buffer alk up, but how do you get calcium down to 400 from 600?

Hmm, well if your doing change water, it shouldn't be an issue, your replacing some calcium is all.

[BMW Rider]

Perhaps what happened was they added extra calcium instead of the alkalinity. I have not had a reply yet from them, but that is good to find out that the salt is at least usable. I'll have to wait for a reply to see if they are offering to supply the needed buffer.

[Johnny Reefer]

Finally got around to testing my bucket today. 2.3 dKH @ 1.022.
Dang! Well I'm gonna use it anyway. Can't be bother with goin' through the return process. I'm gonna mix 2 cups of the Kent with 8 to 9 cups of Instant Ocean until the Kent is all gone. My tank is low on Ca right now so the high Ca is a good thing. I'm interested in checking out SeaChem salt also.

He told me my Alk was 0.913 and my Cal was 600 something.

That 0.913 measurement...is that meq?

Cheers:smile:,

[Willow]

use it for your fowlr, fish dont need alk.

[BMW Rider]

I heard from Kent yesterday. They are going to send me some new salt to replace the two pails I have. He told me they reccomend to just toss the bad stuff and not use it. I think I'll heed that advice. Perhaps I'll use it to melt the ice in my alley so I can get my motorcycle out :mrgreen:

[Chad]

Finally got around to testing my bucket today. 2.3 dKH @ 1.022.
Dang! Well I'm gonna use it anyway. Can't be bother with goin' through the return process. I'm gonna mix 2 cups of the Kent with 8 to 9 cups of Instant Ocean until the Kent is all gone. My tank is low on Ca right now so the high Ca is a good thing. I'm interested in checking out SeaChem salt also.



That 0.913 measurement...is that meq?

Cheers:smile:,

I believe is was dkh. But I might be wrong.

[Johnny Reefer]

use it for your fowlr, fish dont need alk.
Good idea. Just watch that the pH doesn't drop, right?

Thanx much and cheers:smile:,

[EmilyB]

I dunno know about that, low alk in my trigger tank has always caused problems, usually "dust ball gross algae rock breakdown detritus syndrome"...

[Swags]

Hi Mark,
Check this out:
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23514
I am going to see him on Saturday if you want me to trade for you.
Cheers,
Phil

[Johnny Reefer]

Hi Mark,
Check this out:
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23514
I am going to see him on Saturday if you want me to trade for you.
Cheers,
Phil
PM sent....9, 10.

[Beverly]

The RC thread on the low alk Kent salt has been interesting, to say the least.

For anyone who hasn't been following it to its sixth page, here it is from the beginning...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=760882&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

[Matt]

It has been a while since this has been brought up. I'll admit, I've been a lazy reefer lately. For the past few while, our CA and Alk/KH kits have been out of commission, and I"ve been lazy about replacing them. I still tested PH and SG regularly.

Our reefs have been doing poorly lately. Low SPS growth, nuisance algae, general malaise. Nothing drastic, just not thriving. I attributed some of this to an aging MH bulb, and some to the temperature fluctuations through the summer (it got HOT sometimes this summer). I ordered a replacement bulb last week, and some new kits at the same time.

When I went through the whole test regimen, I got some surprising values for CA and Alk! CA over 500 and Alk below 5dKh. That was suprising, but consistent across both tanks, so I tested the water we had mixed this week for the weekend water change. Also low - even lower - dKh around 3.

I had tested this bucket when we opened it, and it was fine. There must have been stratification in the bucket. I hope we caught everything in time. I'm slowly increasing the Alk in the tanks, and will pitch the remaining 1/3 bucket of Kent.

A reminder to myself (and perhaps others) to maintain vigilance!

[Chad]

I am still using Kent, I have not noticed anything recently. It does have a higher Calcium then is used to. But Alk is still on the money at 8dkh.

As for the bad salt, I actualy kept mine and use it when cooking rock or QT.. I simply adjust the Alk.

[Beverly]

Have been keeping an eye on our salt as well. Alk seems to be about 8 dKH here for the pails I've used so far. But I've got 4 more pails go. Thanks for the additional heads up :)