wrong

[asherah]

ok apparently It was too dark to see my card last night because today the ammonia is STILL at 0.25. It hasn't budged from this in weeks. Is there anything i can do to move this along ? Why is it not changing?

amanda

[christyf5]

Basically you're just waiting for the bacterial populations that convert ammonia to nitrite to reach the levels needed to reduce the ammonia to zero. Same for the other parameters. It takes as long as it takes. Sometimes a few weeks, sometimes a few months. How long has it been since your tank started cycling?

[asherah]

ok because it's been going for about 6 weeks now.........=/
I put some established rock from my 44 into it to help it along but doesnt' seem to be making a difference.... yet anyway.

amanda
actually i'm probably wrong on that one because I put the rock in before christmas =p So it's been longer than 6 weeks.

[Ruth]

Sometimes it is difficult to read the colors properly on the test kit or if it is old it may not be working right. If you are in doubt try taking a sample in to your LFS and have them test it.

[asherah]

ok thanks alot =)

amanda

[AndyL]

And if you use a water treatment like prime - you may get a false positive reading.

Andy

[asherah]

No I don't use prime or anything... I added some cycle awhile ago ...last week.
Anyway I just did some more tests and it says
Ammonia - 0.25
Nitrite - 0.5
Nitrate - 10

amanda

[prospero31]

My Aquarium Systems nitrate and nitrite tests never ever detected anything. The fish and inverts don't seem to mind atm.

[Ruth]

With those readings your tank is still cycling. It's just one of those things. I have actually never had it take that long but then again I usually start out with new live rock which has quite a bit of die off as I have to ship everything. So I get a huge ammonia spike and then the usual nitrite and nitrate. I would not add anything else like cycle as I think you might have just started it all over again. Not sure though as I have never used it.

[asherah]

I started with base rock and reef bones. The cycle was taking forever so I added some live rock from my 44. Thought it would help it along but I guess not...
Anything I can do to speed it up?
amanda

[Psyire]

Maybe if you walked us through your exact process we could help you out better.

Did you start with only baserock and reef bones? Anything else? How long was it before you added any LR? Etc.

[Quagmire]

Its possible your going through a second smaller cycle.You get all this bacteria from the cycle,lots of Amonia being turned into Nitrites by one type of bacteria,then Nitites being turned into Nitrates by another type of bacteria.So then you have all these Nitates,and all those bacteria,but they are starving because to them, Nitrates are just waste.They starve and die,causeing Amonia,and starting a smaller cycle.Give it a bit more time,shouldn't take too much longer,there will still be some bacteria of each type so your not starting from square one.

[asherah]

Ok
1: Added thin layer of sand.
2: added base rock + reef bones
3: left for christmas (9 days gone)
4:drained 1/2 the water and arranged the rocks
5:filled and added salt again (right after arranging the rocks)
6:left it for weeks
7:decided to test and see what it was doing - this was a couple weeks ago
8:decided last week to add some of my live rock to help it along

So that's what I did.... it's also at 75 degrees, ph is 8.2 and just has NO flourescent for now until everything gets moved over.

amanda

[Myanth]

To me, and I know a minimal amount, it sounds like you had no bio load on the system during that first period, until you added the live rock. The base rock was not live right? Until you have something to create ammonia, you have not begun the nitrogen cycle. The popluations of nitrosomas bacteria will adjust for the load on the system. Even the addition of a new fish can cause a cycling as the new amount of ammonia does not immediately have the bacterial population available to convert to NO3 - NO2. This is such a small amount and for such a short time period that it would not be measured, but it happens. Do you have any fish or waste producers in the tank now? If not.... get a damsel, or two. They will handle that ammonia without a problem and start loading the system. Which is why I'm stuck with three of them now..... need one?


Of course, I've been drinking and I think I know everything, except for that which I don't know, which soon I will learn, forget, and not know again.

Good luck
Mike

[mr_alberta]

Since you already have an ammonia producer in the tank (i.e. liverock), you do not need to add anything else to start the cycle. Also, it is no longer reccommended to cycle using fish as it is very stressful on them. The preferred method of cycling a tank is using liverock and a raw shrimp from the store. Chuck the raw shrimp in the tank for a day or two until it starts to decompose and kick off the cycle. Then take out the shrimp and discard it far far away as it is not a pleasant smell.

[Quagmire]

Ahh,so the liverock wasn't added when you first set up the tank.Did you have the live rock in a differant tank curing,or did you get it from the store and put it directly into your tank?If it came from the LFS,they may have told you its fully cured,but thats often not the case.Most LFS wont test the water and wouldn't know for sure if its cured or not.Plus even fully cured rock,may have some die off on the trip home.Depending on how long a trip,and how much the water cools off.Some times when you add fully cured rock,you can still get some die off.Organizms living happily on the surface of the rock suddenly find themselves buried in the sand.

With live rock in the tank,you wont need any other livestock or chemicals for the cycle.When the cycle is finnished,you can add livestock slowly (not 5 fish at a time).If you add slowly,there will be a small amonia spike at first,but it will be small and will quickly be talken care of by the liverock.

[asherah]

The live rock is from my 44r that was set up for a year. The reef bones I got said that you can't put them in a established tank and that it had to be cured.
So I figured it would be enough.


There are 4 fish in my 44 and a few snails. So should I not add those all together then ? One at a time maybe ?

amanda

ps. would it be ok to add hermits and snails after the cycle ? I dont have much of a clean up crew in the 44 =p

[TheReefGeek]

I always recommend 10% live rock if you use dry rock, to kick off the cycle. I know it is hard to be patient, but that is all you can do.

If it were my tank, I would toss a raw shrimp in and let the tank cycle more, I would rater "overdue" a cycle than not build up enough bacteria.

How porous is your base rock and reef bones? If it is really dense it might not support much bacteria.

[asherah]

seems pretty porus.. lots of holes in it. Some of the rocks look like they used to be corals, with ridges and etc in them.
I could post a picture.. maybe that would help ?

amanda

[TheReefGeek]

If it is porous and has holes and whatnot, it will be just fine, all you have to do is wait. Just make sure you add livestock slowly to your tank (1 fish at a time preferably) to build up the necessary bacteria levels for your bioload, and not cause a re-cycle.

If you cycle another tank in the future, make sure there is sufficient die off for a good cycle. (ie, a piece of raw shrimp)

[Psyire]

I would count off the cycling period from the day you added the LR.

It almost sounds like there was no bacteria available to the tank (to multiply) before that time.

It's definately a good thing you are taking your time. Keep going slow and your chance of long term success will be much higher.

[Reefhawk1]

I have always cycled my tanks by adding live sand from another established tank. I slowly add it and it usually only takes maximum of two weeks for the cycle to be complete. I also add live rock into the mix to get things rolling.

[richtg]

A lot of test kits have shelf lives. I suspect that yours is expired. How much do you feed?

[asherah]

well it's brand new with no livestock so =p But usually 2 pinches of food...
I usually sit there and watch them eat it and when they it all I give them a litlte more.
Do you think maybe I should not do that in this take when everything is switched out....hrmmm

well i'm going to picking up more of a clean crew as well this week. I don't have much of one in my 44 right now...

how on earth am i going to get all my snails out of there???
amanda