Tang fight

[Ruth]

Well not really, but am just wondering if a Naso Tang and an Achilles Tang are likely to get along. I have a 10" Naso tang already and really, really want an Achilles Tang for my 190. I know they have similar body shapes but the Achilles will be a lot smaller (I am sure) if I can even find one. I have a tank that I do set up as a quarentine - before anyone says anything - as I know that the Achilles is just about sure to get ich from the stress and shipping.
Has anyone kept both these fish together before?

[Psyire]

Are there many other fish in there?

The reason I ask is I noticed my tangs got along better when there are more fish in the tank before adding the second or third. I think this is because they are already 'sharing' the tank. If the Naso is the only fish in there it might be very hard for them to get along.

Your biggest problem is the Naso is 10". When I added my tangs I made sure I always added one that was the same size as the others so he could hold is ground somewhat.

I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it'll definately be a challenge. Has the Naso ever been with another tang in any tank before?

[Ruth]

There is a Moorish Idol, 2 Helfrichi firefish and a Maroon Clown. No aggression at all shown toward other fish in fact I have seen the MI and him tugging at the same piece of Nori and the MI will actually go and try and take Nori out of his mouth.
No other tangs that I have ever had in with him although if I could ever catch my yellow tang in my 230 I would be tempted to throw that aggressive little SOB in with him and hope it gets a licking (not really I just get PO'd at the yellow sometimes)

[Skimmerking]

Ruth the Achillies and the Naso are from the same background and would probably duel it out. I have had the pleasure of having a Achilles and they are a timid fish if a chance to get ICK they are the ones like the REGAL.

With the naso he is the boss of the tank and would probably go after the other Fish.....


Good Luck.

For what its worth. When i added my Lavender tang i had no problems with the other tangs the Yellow SCopas, Kole , didnt even look twice at him because of his size....

[Chin_Lee]

Ruth
the naso is probably enjoying being the king of the tank right now. They are also quite territorial and considering his size, hes not going to have much tolerance for other fishes that may challenge his authority. If you had several other medium/large fish in there with the naso already, i would consider but with your situation, any new tangs are going to get some whoop-ass.
if you are going to add one, i would take the following precautions and steps:
1) put your new achilles into a QT tank and take real good care of him for 2-4 months. Its almost a guarantee that they will go through a long phase of ICK that you will need to help it get through until his immune system kicks in to "captive mode" level. Feed religiously of mysis, nori, with selcon and garlic. When you see the new tang free from ick and gaining weight, let it get plump to store up energy reserves.
2) transfer the fish to a sump of your display tank. This will get the fish used to the conditions of your display tank. And if it gets stressed and ick out again, then you can try to pull him through while in the sump or if it gets really bad, at least you can catch it again and QT tank phase again.
2) get eggcrate and create an area in your display tank that you can introduce your new fish. don't make it too small or the confined space may trigger stress and another ick attack. so you will have to basically create a barrier in your tank and will look rather ugly for a while. I would recommend at least a 2x2 area. then when your tang is healthy again, put him into the isloated chamber of your tank. This will ensure the naso and achilles can see each other but not allow any direct attacks from the naso.
then you will just have to play it by ear. if the naso sees the achilles and does not give a hoot, it may mean that the naso is not threatened at all by the size difference (although unlikely unfortunately). if aggresssion is observed (which is the more likely scenario), monitor and assess. After a few weeks, the naso may eventually "believe" that the achilles is immune to his aggression and there is no longer a need to be as aggressive. After a week or so, continue to feed but make sure your food gets squited into the same area of the egg crate where both fish will have to eat with the other one close by. when they can both eat while being close to each other, you may be on the path of acceptance. But the presence of the naso and its intimidating size may trigger the achilles yet into another ick outbreak.
in general, i would consider the risk pretty high of losing the achilles to diseases by itself. The naso tang factor will make its survival probablity even worse and may be the last factor that deals the final blow.
I have an achilles that I've been babying for the past 3-4 months in my sump and i put him there so I can monitor his ick outbreaks and feed him directly (tang police - please note that the sump area that it is in is a 3x2 of free swimming space).i bought him from another reefer who had it in captivity for 4-6 months prior so hes coming up to a year in captivity and i have a real good feeling about his survival rate at this point. hes pretty much ready for a display tank but i'm in the process of planning some major overhauls on my system so he will stay in there until i can sort things out. But i won't introduce him into my display with the purple and yellow just because I don't want him stressed. If he goes into the display, the achilles will be the only tang in there.
PS - did i mention how susceptible achilles are to ick???

[Ruth]

Ohhhh........big sigh..............I guess I will just wait until I set up my new tank and have the achilles be the first tang in the tank. They are my all time favorite tang and I would really like one but don't want to have to go through all the hassle of trying to put him in my 190 and chance infecting all other fish with ich. If I had a backup tank I would give it a try but there is no way he could go in my 230 with the Regal and Yellow because I just know that those 2 would seriously kick it's butt. My only option is probably to put the Naso in the 230 but again I think it would be a war with the other 2 tangs in there already. Maybe some motivation to set up the 300!!!!

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Chin,

that is very awesome advice. Very thorough.

Anthony

[Ryan7]

If the Naso is the only tang in the tank, and you buy a heathly achilles that is smaller than the Naso, with your size tank I believe you will be fine (assuming the tank is 6ft +). The Naso will probally chase him for a day or so, but I do not think the Naso will feel too threatened.

I have a Naso with a Powder Brown except I added the Naso after the Powder Brown, and the Naso was smaller. But they get along fine.

Over the years hanging out with the Tang Police I've learned the size of the tank is the biggest factor when it comes to tangs aggression. I dont think a much smaller achilles will challenge a bigger Naso, as long as there is space for the both of them.

Chin Lees procedure in adding the tang is excellant

[Ruth]

It is a 6 foot tank with lots of live rock and hiding places and the Naso is the only tang in there - I would not think of putting a big tang like a Naso in anything smaller. I still think I am going to wait until I have my 300 set up.
One question that I have for you Tang Police is that I want to get a Powder Blue, Achilles and Sailfin for my new tank. It is a 300 cube - dimensions are 4' X 4' X 30". My question is about the 4' length and width - is this going to be enough swimming room? I know that the total water volume will handle those larger fish but am now starting to question the swimming room as I know how much these guys like to race from end to end.

[Chin_Lee]

I'll probably get double tapped by the TP but I say if you can put all three at the same time, they will be fine. thats about 16 sq ft of swimming space or 40 cubic feet which will be a lote more than most people can provide. my 180g is only about 12 sq ft/24 cubic feet whereas most people with 90g can provide 9sq feet/12 cubic feet,

It is a 6 foot tank with lots of live rock and hiding places and the Naso is the only tang in there - I would not think of putting a big tang like a Naso in anything smaller. I still think I am going to wait until I have my 300 set up.
One question that I have for you Tang Police is that I want to get a Powder Blue, Achilles and Sailfin for my new tank. It is a 300 cube - dimensions are 4' X 4' X 30". My question is about the 4' length and width - is this going to be enough swimming room? I know that the total water volume will handle those larger fish but am now starting to question the swimming room as I know how much these guys like to race from end to end.

[Psyire]

Does your cube have an island style overflow so they can swim laps around and around?

[Ruth]

It does so they can do laps if they want to. Overflow is right in the center and is 18" X 12".

[Chin_Lee]

that is a sweet sounding setup. something that I will definitely consider in the future when I get to build my own place one day.
It does so they can do laps if they want to. Overflow is right in the center and is 18" X 12".

[Psyire]

That's awesome that they can do laps.

I think that negates any tank length issues.

[naesco]

It is a 6 foot tank with lots of live rock and hiding places and the Naso is the only tang in there - I would not think of putting a big tang like a Naso in anything smaller. I still think I am going to wait until I have my 300 set up.
One question that I have for you Tang Police is that I want to get a Powder Blue, Achilles and Sailfin for my new tank. It is a 300 cube - dimensions are 4' X 4' X 30". My question is about the 4' length and width - is this going to be enough swimming room? I know that the total water volume will handle those larger fish but am now starting to question the swimming room as I know how much these guys like to race from end to end.

No Ruth a 4 foot tank is too small for any tang let alone the Powder Blue and Achilles. There is insufficinet length to meet the needs of these two.

You also need to know that the Powder Blue is a very difficult tang to keep. They are ich magnets, prone to disease and oftern perish after a few months taking there tankmates with them.
The achilles is an almost impossible tang to keep. Those very few who have success have large mature tanks. Pristine, highly oxygenated water is essential.
Ruth, as you know tangs are swimmers. Sorry but a four footer doesn't meet the requirements.

[TheReefGeek]

I think a 4 foot cube would be enough swimming room for any tang.

I look at it as, how much can they swim without having to stop and turn around? In the 4ft cube, is is never, they can swim 16ft before doing one lap. In a 6 ft tank, it is just 6 feet because of rockwork and corals.

Sure they have to turn a bit, but what fish on a reef dont turn all the time? They dont swim perfectly straight. If a 6ft tank is good enough, I would say a 4ft cube is more than large enough.

[Ruth]

Thanks for the replys. I am aware that both Powder Blue and Achilles are challenging to keep and would not even try it in a smaller system. They would definately be the last fish I added and even then only after the system had been set up and stable for at least 6-8 months. I don't think that well oxygenated water will be an issue as I plan on having 4X6200 tunze streams as well as a Bubble King 500 skimmer. I do regular water changes on all my tanks of at least 10-15% a minimum of every 2 weeks and other that the 190g that I am running zeovit on do not add a bunch of "stuff" to my systems.
I am still undecided but just looking to collect as much information as I can so really appreciate when people take the time to pass on their knowledge.

[Skimmerking]

U go Ruth the main thing is that the tangs are cared for at the top quality. I have 4 tangs in my 170 60x27x24 and they are small but they swim around until i get up the nerve to build my 8 footer soon i hope...

mike

[naesco]

Thanks for the replys. I am aware that both Powder Blue and Achilles are challenging to keep and would not even try it in a smaller system. They would definately be the last fish I added and even then only after the system had been set up and stable for at least 6-8 months. I don't think that well oxygenated water will be an issue as I plan on having 4X6200 tunze streams as well as a Bubble King 500 skimmer. I do regular water changes on all my tanks of at least 10-15% a minimum of every 2 weeks and other that the 190g that I am running zeovit on do not add a bunch of "stuff" to my systems.
I am still undecided but just looking to collect as much information as I can so really appreciate when people take the time to pass on their knowledge.

Great Ruth.
You already have a large tank so you are aware of their swimming needs.
There is some great info on tang requirements at www.wetwebmedia.com

[Acro]

Well it appears at least to me that tangs in general are more of a naesco
magnet then ich. :p

[naesco]

Well it appears at least to me that tangs in general are more of a naesco
magnet then ich. :p

Yes, but you can get rid of ich!
p.s. Got my avatar back up.

[Psyire]

Is that an Atlantic Blue Tang in your Avatar? Do you have one?

[naesco]

Is that an Atlantic Blue Tang in your Avatar? Do you have one?

Yes it is. I bought it when it was a yellow juvenile and had it for 8 years. It became the boss of the tangs.
When I was transporting my tangs in buckets when we moved, the car ahead of me stopped suddenly. I slammed on the brakes but the buckets and fish went everywhere. With the exception of the powder brown (japonica)(which I still have), I lost all my tangs.
Wayne

[Psyire]

Sorry to hear about the loss.

The reason I asked is because I have a Juvenile Atlantic Blue. I got him in Sept. and he was about 1.75" and now he's around the 3.5" mark. He's still yellow though and I'm kinda curious as to when he'll change to blue. He's alittle darker now but that's about it. Did it take long for your tang to change from yellow to blue? How fast did yours grow?

Sorry for jackin' your thread Ruth..

[Ruth]

No problem I am curious as well. Also would like to hear about Naesco's system and perhaps see some pictures. He obviously has an affinity for Tangs which I share so would love to hear about his system and what Tangs he has/is keeping.

[naesco]

As I recall it was about six months from the time I had it to when it started turning.
My tank was a nine footer and contained the following tangs.
Powder brown, atlantic blue, vlamingi, yellow, kole and oragne shoulder.

I no longer have the tank (the powder brown is in my son's tank).
I am in the process on setting up a new one but it will be an angel tank this time.
After eeking out all the experience everyone has with angels, reading up on the species and keeping them for a while, beware.