Ok I need your Ideas

[StirCrazy]

Ok I have the opertunity to buy a tank for about the same price as getting one cusyome made but instead of holes on the back like I was wanting it has holes in the bottom. the bonus is it is a 24" tall tank instead of a 18" tall. the problem is I am not sure how to plum this tank so I need ideas. here is a drawing of the bottom of the tank so you can see what I am talking about.
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/tankbottom.jpg

thanks
Steve

[Troy F]

Hey Steve.

If those holes for the return are dead center and you are going to have a DSB then plug them and plumb your return over the back of the tank.

[StirCrazy]

Ok I have come up with one possability. have pipes come throught the bulkheads and go to the back corners under the sand bed and then have risers with nozzles on them.

I would hate to plug them up Troy as now this opens up the possability to have no external pluming. and I could maby put a small end against the wall.. who know though....
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/oneway.jpg

Steve

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[canadawest]

I think that your idea looks great Steve.

Also consider one of those mechanized 180degree flow valves. (I forget what they are called)

You could put it where the 'Y' is on your return diagram. It would cause oscillating return to the two sides of your tank, thereby simulating more random water currents and tidal flow.

If my tank was drilled and plumbed, that's the route I would take.

[Gordoe]

What if you built a rack for your rock out of PVC pipe and plumbed the rack into your return. This would give you the flow from the bottom of your rock up to the top of the tank.. Similar to a reverse flow UGF.
Just a quick suggestion, good luck.

Gord

[StirCrazy]

Ya I thought about that spining port valve that I was wanting tomake but I think there might be a easyer way to do it.. I just haven't found it yet hehe..
beside that I something that I could always add later as long as I use a couple ball valves.

Steve

[ldzielak]

Well I see 1 problem, when you return pump fails or turns off, you drain your entire tank to the lowest hole in the return line. What I did is have the return line come all the way up above the surface of the water and then go back down. I also have a small bleed above the surface to break the vaccum when the pump shuts down. Also I have been told that you should have lots of surface movement toward you overflow(s) to get the best protein skiming action.

Return lines from tank level:
http://oberon.ark.com/~ldzielak/fish/return_lines2.jpg

Return Lines from top:
http://oberon.ark.com/~ldzielak/fish/return_lines.jpg

Over flow towers:
http://oberon.ark.com/~ldzielak/fish/over_flows.jpg

Tank on the adjustable stand during construction:
http://oberon.ark.com/~ldzielak/fish/tank_on_stand.jpg

My sump and refugium:
http://oberon.ark.com/~ldzielak/fish/sump_explained.jpg

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: Lee ]

[StirCrazy]

Cool good catch.. that was a desaster waiting to happen.. so I guess i should run the pipes to the surface and back down andhave the nozzles on the down leg with one right at the top just under the surface.

Steve

[Reefmaster]

why not just use a flapper check valve? van-isle has em and we've had one in service for over two years and still works fine -- had a power outage last week and still works great. shane

[StirCrazy]

ya that would be a idea also.. thanks

Steve

[DJ88]

Also remember that with each 90 bend in your plumbing you will add on about the equal of one foot of head pressure. So you will lose a massive amount of pressure out of the holes by the time you go up and then back down. Not to mention the bends just coming out of the glass and running along the tank bottom.. A quick calculation is like 15 feet of head pressure on each. If you guesstimate two feet down to the sump. You will need a MASSIVE pump or have one pump for each return line instead of splitting it. Even tehn it will need to be big.

Too much work IMO and too many things can go wrong. Keep it simple... Saves a lot of headaches down the road.

[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[StirCrazy]

ok ok hehe I just found out we are getting a back pay make up from the goverment so I guess I will order the tank I want images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

them center holes scared me the more I thought about them.. sooooo...

Steve

[DJ88]

Steve!!!!!!!!!!!

How much back pay??????????

EMAIL ME!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me tell me tell me tell me.

MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[ldzielak]

Hey I'll take the tank if you don't want it. I need to setup a fish only in my office. I would of course build a stand that supports the bottom.

The check valve idea with the spring, you can get them in Stainless, but those types have a good size pressure drop. So again I would not use them.

[Delphinus]

Lee wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quoteHey I'll take the tank if you don't want it. I need to setup a fish only in my office. I would of course build a stand that supports the bottom.

Well I guess it's not like I haven't seen it done, and done well too.... I'm just not crazy over the idea is all.

To each their own though.....

[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: delphinus ]

[ldzielak]

I think check valves are a mechanical items just waiting to fail. I agree that the head loss is substantial, but in my case w/ 4MDQX-SC is still to much flow, so I had to install a recirc line back to the left side of the sump.

Also a note if you are wet testing your setup like I did for 2 weeks in the garage. Fresh water and salt water do not have the same viscosity, so you can get a way with more flow when using salt water. I guess if it works with fresh water your on the safe side. My tank level droped 1/4" - 1/8" after the salt was in. My 2 overflows are not enough for 4MDQX, with the screens and the 90 at the top. I'm thinking of installing boxes on the towers. But I can still play with the restrictor on the recirc line.

[Delphinus]

Lee wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quoteI think check valves are a mechanical items just waiting to fail.

I'm glad someone pointed this out. I was going to say this, I'm glad all I have to do is "second the opinion."

It doesn't take much for the seal to fail on a check valve. Also some check valves are not flappers they are some kind of spring loaded type, and guess what, what is the spring made of? If we can't be sure then don't expose it to your saltwater. Last but not least they do also add a bit of head pressure but probably more so with the springloaded types over the flapper types.

Also ... I'm sorry to rain on the parade, but I gotta say, I'm not real thrilled about seeing holes drilled in the CENTER of the bottom plane. This is the weakest point of the bottom and it endures the most stresses as well. Is this glass or acrylic?

[Reefmaster]

pvc flapper valves are designed so that the flap swings clear so as to not restrict flow. i agree that generally mechanical check valves are a bad idea, but these little flappers kick ass. i wouldn't however use a spring style check valve. shane