Anemone ID? Another update. Anemone Relocated.

[OCDP]

Okay well , the anemone decided to relocate, so here are some updated pictures.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1233Small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1232Small.jpg

And as of last night before I did a water change.. (top rightish)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/sharpnewSmall.jpg

[OCDP]

Couple more..

Clowns enjoying the new anemone..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1199Medium.jpg

Playing dead? He really did sit like that for a good minute or two.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1198Medium.jpg

:wink:

[Delphinus]

It has a vaguely ritteri-like quality to it. I've found that it's easy to misindentify Entacmaea quadricolor and Heteractis magnifica sometimes based on pics due to that they share many characteristics. Ultimately when seen in person there is very little doubt but pictures can be misleading.

The only sure way to tell would be closeups of the pedal disk, and its habitual choice of subtrate (out in the open, versus foot buried under overhand or crevasse).

What is the overall size? Looks to be fairly small. How long after introduction were these pictures taken (also a factor actually)?

[OCDP]

Tony,

I put the anemone in on a high point in the tank receiving a very moderate flow. I put its foot inbetween a nice little crack that I thought it would suck into. Sure enough.. hasn't moved one inch. I put it in last night around 730. I took the picture at 3 30 today.

Dumb question.. is the pedal disk.. the foot? I know it's a white colour, if that helps at all. I can try to get pictures of it.

[Beverly]

Whatever species it is, it looks robust and healthy :biggrin:

[OCDP]

Thanks Bev.

I will try posting this in the anemone/clownfish forum on RC and see what happens. Sorry I never got a chance to take a picture of it's foot. But like I said, it is white coloured. :biggrin:

[Delphinus]

If ice cream is white would that be enough to know it's flavour? :p

[SJSobczyk]

Ya Scott why dont you give the anemone a taste? That might give it away!

Steve

[OCDP]

lol, good point Tony. I asked over on RC and it's leaning towards a sebae... I just need to get a shot of it under it's disk..



mmmm.......fishy

[Delphinus]

I have to say I do not agree with the assesments over there. "I have completely ruled out BTA" ? What a joke. And I am sorry but the methodologies being used are complete fallacies. Association of clownfish species is a completely irrelevant ID'ing tool when in captivity. Perhaps it can help narrow down choices when ID'ing a specimen in the wild, but not in captivity.

[Delphinus]

Just as a further note. I can tell you right now with a near 100% certainty it is not Heteractis crispa based entirely on your first and second photos. The verrucae on a H. crispa are so prominent that the column looks like raw, unskinned, chicken. Plus, the shape of the pedal disk is wrong, plus the way it's sitting just isn't quite right.

I think I shall pass on involving myself in the RC thread. Sorry.

[Johnny Reefer]

Did you buy it from an LFS?
If so...surely they must know what type it is.

Cheers,:smile:

[OCDP]

No, I am aware.. I am just going by everything I have been told and everything I have read. I guess it's all coming down to a shot under the disk.. ( I don't know the proper name sorry ) .. Only reason I ruled out BTA was because the previous owner had the anemone with a maroon clown. A BTA is a natural host to a Maroon , correct? I guess still not good enough to narrow it down, you're right Tony.

Here is the thread for anyone interested...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=766817

[OCDP]

No one is forcing anyone to check out the RC thread, or help with the ID for that matter. I am just passing along my information. As of right now the anemone is still unidentified until I can provide a picture of the disk, and I will post it back here.

I just asked the person I got the anemone from to let me know where he picked this guy up so I can hopefully phone somewhere to get the ID. Hopefully.

[Beverly]

Did you buy it from an LFS?
If so...surely they must know what type it is.

LFSs are notoriously wrong when IDing animals. For instance, the dwarf angel I recently purchased for our 120g was IDed there as a Fisher's Angel. Not until I posted a video in the Reef Fishes forum did someone ID it as a Rusty Angel. To double check both species, I went to fishbase.org and the fish was indeed a Rusty Angel.

[Delphinus]

Didn't say you were forcing anyone Scott. I just said I choose to pass. I have my reasons but I would prefer not to get into that publicly over here.

In short:
- Entacmaea quadricolor -- possibly, although possibly not. Not enough info.
- Heteractis magnifica -- although unlikely, still possible. Not enough info.
- Heteractis crispa -- very unlikely. I think there's enough info to accept this claim.

The difficulty here is that there are traits that are common to all 3 (and even other species we haven't even mentioned yet). Some traits can be shared between species. I.e., just because it resembles one thing, doesn't automatically make it so. If that were really true, then this species is all 3. Well, we know that can't be the case. So which is it? The bottom line is that there is not enough info at this time to pass a qualified judgment.

Whatever it is, enjoy it, and please be more careful with this one.

[OCDP]

Fair enough. I should have re-phrased my other post, my apologies. Like I have mentioned.. I'll take some better photos of the anemone and its underside this evening and hopefully that will narrow it down. Thanks for your help Tony.

Heh, you make me seem careless with my anemones :razz: I try to be as careful as possible. I have only lost one anemone out of the many I have kept. And it's a little hard to make powerhead guards for Seio's, and also creating one that won't reduce efficiency of the powerhead. I am working on it..

[TheReefGeek]

What would differentiate the quadricolor from the magnifica?

[OCDP]

Tony, you'd be perfectly suited to answer this one heh..

I know of only a couple differences.. I'll let another anemone pro out there have at it.

[Delphinus]

Well, Entacmaea quadricolor has 4 hoofs and a long tail with a bushy end. Long shaggy fur and two black beady eyes placed under some pointy horns. Heteractis magnifica on the other hand tends to have strong muscular back legs, sharp claws, a slightly tapered tail and very strong disposition to seek out heat registers to have a nap.


... Seriously, usually, there's no confusing the two, they're quite different. Yet sometimes you'll see these ones where they defy easy categorization. If it comes down to it, H. magnifica has verrucae arranged in rows along the column. E. quadricolor doesn't show verrucae along the column at all, although I think they might show some right at the top of the column.

http://www.nhm.ku.edu/inverts/ebooks/intro.html

[TheReefGeek]

And verrucae are?

[Delphinus]

Sorry. Think of them as wart like structures that the anemone can use to adhere to substrate. From the link I provided: "Most host actinians have, in the upper part, longitudinal rows of small warts (verrucae; singular is verruca) to which particles of gravel may adhere; commonly these are pigmented differently from the rest of the column."

Here is a picture showing the verrucae of one of my carpets (Stichodactyla gigantea):
http://members.shaw.ca/hobiesailor/aquaria/anemones/20051010/carpet5.jpg

Offhand I do not have pictures of the verrucae of H. magnifica versus E. quadricolor, sorry, although a quick google search should yield plenty of results.

[TheReefGeek]

Great pic, thanks! I cleverly called them "spots" up to now. :mrgreen:

How often and what do you feed your anemones? Have any trouble with your carpet eating small docile fishies like clown gobies or mandarines?

[Delphinus]

I do feed all my anemones. For the most part I just feed them mysis every couple of days. Amounts sort of vary based on the individual.

The two carpets I have right now are both S. gigantea and they have been gentle additions to the reef. In fact I had a mandarin who would routinely sleep under one of them. However S. haddoni is a different story, they can and will eat any fish who blunders into them, so caution is definitely advised.

Here is some more info about verrucae:
Verrucae: more or less ampullaccous, adhesive evaginations of the column (http://web.nhm.ku.edu/tol/glossary/terms.html#Column), simple or more rarely compound, with modified ectoderm, without nematocysts (http://web.nhm.ku.edu/tol/glossary/terms.html#Nematocysts) in their central part. Rarely, as in Sagartia, there is no evagination, but the ectoderm shows same structure as that of the verrucae proper and is adhesive (suckers). Follow this link to find images of verrucae (http://web.nhm.ku.edu/tol/glossary/column.html).
(From http://web.nhm.ku.edu/tol/glossary/intro.html ).

If you can understand any of that, you have my sympathies!!! :crazyeye:

That site does have a great shot of the verrucae of Heteractis magnifica though, that I can't pass up the chance to post here:
http://web.nhm.ku.edu/tol/glossary/whole/whole.JPG

[TheReefGeek]

No, I dont understand any of that, I left my giberish dictionary in my other pants where I store my PhD in biology. :biggrin:

The link to the pictures helped though, thanks.

I have seen that identical pic on a different site, it is a great pic!

[OCDP]

oh man Tony.. that was a chore to read that information you posted :razz:

Great picture... That is such a beautiful anemone... if mine is magnifica I sort of wish it had the typical common riterri colours haha.. oh well.

Have you seen any other colours ilke this before on riterri's Tony? It's such a different colour.. dark brown/dark purple with bright neon green tips! I always thought of riterri's as tan coloured or cream/yellowish.

[OCDP]

Alright. I took some pictures, but they aren't the greatest. This guy didn't want to close up... I turkey basted him.. rubbed it a bit.. and this is all I got. Hopefully it helps.. I'll keep an eye on it after lights out and see if it closes up or not.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1202Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1203Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1208Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1204Medium.jpg

[OCDP]

One last shot..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/IMGP1206Medium.jpg

So going by the information.. I would guess now that this is a GBTA.

Hope those pictures help,

[OCDP]

Update, the person I was dealing with on RC has now said that it is an H. Magnifica. But no one else has responded yet but him.

[Delphinus]

Marina's guess has equal weight though. I'm still on the fence, I think it's more like Entacmaea quadricolor than it is Heteractis magnifica but it still really does have some vague ambiguity about it. That is the freakiest looking rim I've ever seen BTW, it looks like alien teeth. I should add neither my BTA's nor my ritteri have a rim like that (well I guess that goes without saying since I already said "I have never seen..." oops).

Here's the thing ... over time that ambiguity will lessen. So it will be interesting to see in a few month's time what we can learn.

I don't see any verrucae at all on that column. A little hard to tell since it has a slight wrinkled appearance instead of fully inflated smoothness. I was looking at my ritteri last night to see if there's anything I can extrapolate here. What I noticed is that I can't see the verrucae on the column by colour alone, since they are the exact same colour as the rest of the column. But by looking at the texture, you can see they are there still (so it's not as obvious as that picture of the pink base above, they are evident only if you really look closely enough).

The tentacle shape is also something that I'm noticing. In the second set of photos they widen a little, then are blunt ended with a tiny "nipple" at the very tip. This is something I've never seen on my ritteri. But I have seen it on BTA's.

In the end: my guess == BTA. With about a 60-70% certainty. :lol:

But like I said, maybe in a few months time it's possible we can take another stab at this and there will be something new to help with the ID.

[OCDP]

Thanks for your post Tony.

hahaha, Alien teeth.. that's funny. It does have a funky looking rim, doesn't it. Just as one last note, the person I got the anemone from said this was purchased from Ocean, as a GBTA.

Thanks for all of your information and help Tony.. appreciate it. I think what I will do is feed him today, see if he closes up some more, and try and get another shot that way. I rubbed him and he would NOT close last night.

I never seen any verrucae on the column myself Tony.

The tentacle observation is something I had been meaning to point out. They do have a blunt shape with that nipple appearance. I thought riterri's for the most part had stricly that blunt shape.

It will indeed be interesting to see what this turns out to be. But as far as observations I have made.. if it is Riterri, it definately likes the low flow/high light it is in. Because it is not recieving a strong flow. I can see a BTA loving the high light/lower flow area though...

Like I said, I'll try one more time ... feed it and see if it closes up some for an even better picture.

Thanks again all :mrgreen:

[OCDP]

*bump* Check the very first post. New updated shots.. anemone has relocated.

Cheers

[Delphinus]

Looks more and more ritteri-ish .. just with a very bad habit of pretending to be BTA. I.e., the hiding the pedal disk in the crevasse is very typical of BTA and very atypical of ritteri.

[i have crabs]

i dont have a clue what it is but in that first post it looks like its real close to a uncovered intake and if it is, how long untill the "anemone vs. powerhead/intake" post ?

[OCDP]

I am aware it is close to a powerhead intake. But .. in a 20g tank, where is it NOT going to be near a powerhead intake?

Now riddle me this. How on earth do we create intake guards for Seio pumps? I am more than willing to try something out.

It is doing extremely well in my small system if this is a riterri. It hasn't looked bad once yet, and I have had it a week. I am still working on better shots of the column and what not... bare with me. He is not in the best of spots to photograph the foot/column area.

I'll try posting something here and on RC about guarding a Seio intake. I don't know how to do it though.

[Delphinus]

Well, Scott, the only thing is .. and .. well, you'll have to know what my feelings are on this one without me even saying it. If it is ritteri, your 20g is a temporary home at best, as nice as your 20g may be. As nice as this anemone is, I'm actually still hoping for you that it's a BTA. It would be more tolerant, should hopefully stay a more manageable size, and will be far less destructive to your reef inhabitants.

If it is a ritteri, it's bad news. This species has a tremendous energy output and will quickly starve if not fed adequately ... and it will very quickly outgrow the system if it is fed adequately. And it will just pound on your bioload. And, as I discovered through experience, it is very ill advised to try to manage the growth by reducing or eliminating feedings.

I'm sorry to sound like a downer, but I really do hope that we're all mistaken here and it's not a ritteri. If it IS a ritteri ... I suggest you start planning your upgrade now. :p

[Ruth]

Or if it is a Ritteri like Tony said you could just plan to send it on up to me!

[TheReefGeek]

Im closer. :mrgreen:

[OCDP]

hah...

I guess we'll see what happens. Either way, as long as it's happy and healthy RIGHT now.. I'm happy. At LEAST I can keep him happy for now.. and make changes if need be.

I am determined to take a bazillion shots of the foot to get an ID.


not sure if it matters .but as stated , this was sold from Ocean's in Calgary as a GBTA

[OCDP]

Okay.. I can't get clear shots of this thing. My camera sucks! This is the best I could do, sorry.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/newnewnewnew005Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/newnewnewnew004Small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/newnewnewnew006Small.jpg



(continued)

[OCDP]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/newnewnewnew001Small.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/newnewnewnew002Small.jpg

Yet again, another set of pictures :razz:

[christyf5]

Wow, I thought I'd forgotten to put on my glasses there for a sec :wink:

Maybe try the macro function/flash? Or have someone with a better camera over for a photo shoot??

[OCDP]

Blah lol,

I'll go for round 2 here... one last time. That's what happens when I take pictures 10 minutes after waking up.

[OCDP]

Alright.. I'm spent. :razz:

Here's the latest shots... hopefully I got it right this time.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/anemone4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/anemone5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/anemone6.jpg


(continued..)

[OCDP]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/anemone7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/anemone3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/anemone2.jpg

[OCDP]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/OCDP2005/anemone1.jpg

Still not the greatest pics :neutral:

[danny zubot]

My identification would have been BTA originally. Now that I've seen the creature move onto the rocks I'm convinced of it. Take a look at these pics I found of BTA's that resemble your IMO.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/3214dannyzubot/dyoungloveanemone_400.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/3214dannyzubot/engulfed.jpg

[OCDP]

Danny.. it does look similar... I will go over to RC with these pics and see what they say. I'll post back with my information later on.

Thanks guys.