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View Full Version : do you use a grounding probe?


Invigor
11-10-2005, 02:27 AM
well? :D

mark
11-10-2005, 02:50 AM
just my arm

EmilyB
11-10-2005, 05:01 AM
I'm surprised at the results, but I live with a master electrician. :smile:

Nemo
11-10-2005, 05:36 AM
For the few $$$ it is worth the safety factor, also anyone without a GFIC plug or breaker should re think

Gizmo
11-10-2005, 06:17 PM
Just buy a BIG copper grounding rod and tie to to a pipe.. :biggrin:












j/k Dont do that you will kill everything in your tank.

scuglass
11-10-2005, 06:35 PM
i am just setting up a tank and i am wondering does a gfci recepticle and a gfci breaker do the same thing but the breaker covers all the plugs and a recepticle only covers those after the recepticle? i tried to install the recepticle one but i opened it and there are 3 positive negatives and 3 grounds and it says not to install if this is the case (call electrician ) but can i just change out the breaker with a gfci??

sorry i know nothing about electricity :redface: thanks

mark
11-10-2005, 06:55 PM
Yes, a GFI breaker and receptacle do the same thing, main difference is cost (breaker $80 / recpt $15).

A breaker will protect everything hooked to it, a recptl only itself and what's hooked up down stream.

Not sure what you mean with the positive/negative. If it's a duplex receptacle, there should be a ground, a brass and sliver screw to hook to supply (black-hot, silver-neutral) and a other set of brass/silver screws for loads down stream.

scuglass
11-10-2005, 07:11 PM
in the instructions it says there should be a line and a load but there is another cord in there and it says if there is more than just line and load call an electrician to install it. for 80 bucks i really could care less due to the money invested inb this already lol can i install the breaker my self or is there laws saying i have to get an electrician in

thanks scott

crusty1
11-10-2005, 11:43 PM
For the money and the hassel it could easily cause without it. In my opinion, it is in the need to have it category.

WWWD
11-10-2005, 11:45 PM
the flipside of a gfi is that if it trips and your away from the tank it will stay off.

mark
11-11-2005, 01:54 AM
It's not a big deal to put in a breaker or sort out the third wire but I would suggest if there's any doubt in what you are doing, probably best to call a electrician.

As for laws, as a home owner you are able to do electrical work yourself with a permit. Also my understanding if all you are doing is replacing existing, a permit is not required.

Still again, if you are unsure, get a electrician.

As for tripping when not around, rather I come home and find the tank off than the wife coming home and finding me dead.

Gizmo
11-11-2005, 04:25 PM
the flipside of a gfi is that if it trips and your away from the tank it will stay off.

I keep my Heater, powerhead and actinics on a NON GFI Plug, just for that reason. They are also on a Computer UPS.

but I would suggest if there's any doubt in what you are doing, probably best to call a electrician.

When messin with salt water and power, and your unsure, safest bet for your livestock and YOU is to call a sparky.

Beverly
11-11-2005, 04:51 PM
I voted no. We have GFI receptacles on all our tanks. All powerbars are mounted high up inside the tank stand so water cannot splash on them unless we were trying really freaking hard. We also have drip loops for everything plugged into the powerbars. I think we've got all the bases covered over here :biggrin:

EmilyB
11-11-2005, 05:17 PM
The purpose of a ground probe is to trip the GFCI breaker without something like, say, your arm, tripping it. :biggrin:

fishnchum
11-14-2005, 05:59 AM
Never ...EVER... use a copper rod or wire in your reef tank!!! Not only will the salt and the alkalinity of the water corrode the copper, it will deposit the copper...INTO YOUR TANK!!! Also, if the ...copper... grounding rod is removing ...any... stray current from your tank, it will, by means of electrolysis, diffuse copper into your water!

Use A stainless steel or better yet a Titanium rod in the tank.

If you choose not to ground your tank, you choose to PLAY WITH YOUR LIFE!!! Salt water is an EXCELLENT conductor of electricity!!! What if a glass tube heater breaks??? 110v 15-amp potential MINIMUM right into the tank!!! Now you are standing in your bare feet on a carpet or whatever that I will personally GUARANTEE has a great deal of salt residue on it...

A recent water spill, or just a damp, humid day may be all it takes to pass that current, from the leaky seal in one of your submersible pumps (which is under pressure!), right through your arm, into your heart, and passing through your torso and groin, finally exiting through your toes. As the current sears your flesh, you wonder why you trusted that $15 dollar device (GFI) that your uncle's, friend's, pastor wired in ,for a free meal on Sunday afternoon, (after a night out with Jack!!!). You barely had time to wonder why you ignored the laws of physics and the fact that electricity will travel through the path of least resistance, which ...could... have been that ground stake that you hammered into the ground outside with a run of copper wire attached to a stainless electrode (such as a shish-kebab skewer)., before you dropped lifeless to the carpet for your family member to find.

Gfi is nice, and those 'plug in the third ground only' devices from the lfs are handy, but are they worth your life ? Would put an electric heater on the edge of the bathtub and use a piece of string to keep it from falling in? Electrical devices fail, including GFI/GFCI Breakers. By all means use them, ...with... a proper outdoor or other ground.

YOU MUST GROUND YOUR TANK!!! PLEASE!!!

P.S. EmilyB you are 100% correct on that fact!

StirCrazy
11-14-2005, 12:19 PM
the last time we had this discusion it was determined that a grounding probe will hinder the operation of a GFI, (and yes I would trust a GFI with my life befor a grounding probe) so I do not use Grounding probes as they are for setups with out GFI's.

Steve

Johnny Reefer
11-14-2005, 12:21 PM
Although it's hard to tell, I think the reference to the copper rod was meant to be a joke.

Doug
11-14-2005, 01:47 PM
the last time we had this discusion it was determined that a grounding probe will hinder the operation of a GFI, (and yes I would trust a GFI with my life befor a grounding probe) so I do not use Grounding probes as they are for setups with out GFI's.

Steve

However I can show you threads from RC, by electrical people, that say the exact opposite.

No wonder aquarists are confused. I use one also, but have no freaking idea who is correct anymore about many things. :confused:

Ruth
11-14-2005, 01:57 PM
I just have GFI and no probe. I also am confused???????

mark
11-14-2005, 02:18 PM
A GFI works by comparing the current on each leg, hot and neutral. When there's a ground fault, current in does not equal current out (some is flowing to ground) the device trips.

For a GFI to work when there's a problem, there needs to be a alternate path for current to flow to ground. This can be from a device with it's own ground, a stand alone ground probe, or the human body.

muck
11-14-2005, 02:20 PM
Although it's hard to tell, I think the reference to the copper rod was meant to be a joke.

Not really hard to tell he's joking at all. Unless of course you don't read the whole post.. :razz:

Just buy a BIG copper grounding rod and tie to to a pipe.. :biggrin:












j/k Dont do that you will kill everything in your tank.

StirCrazy
11-14-2005, 06:08 PM
A GFI works by comparing the current on each leg, hot and neutral. When there's a ground fault, current in does not equal current out (some is flowing to ground) the device trips.

For a GFI to work when there's a problem, there needs to be a alternate path for current to flow to ground. This can be from a device with it's own ground, a stand alone ground probe, or the human body.

so if all our equipment is 3 prong grounded we should be fine. and sence you can not get CSA aproval for anything with out grounding that is designed for possable water contact then it should be safe.

I found a good site on GFI's the standard is for them to trip at 5mA.
http://personal.cha.bellsouth.net/j/o/johngd/files/rv/gfi.pdf

seing that most of us have wooden floors and carpets ect.. we are not a good contact to ground and I have experenced this my self by having a leaky pump in the tank, I could put my arms in there all day when standing on the floor but if my elbow touched the metal stand (which I grounded) then I would get a zap and my GFI would trip befor I hardly felt it. Personaly I don't use a grounding probe but would it hurt?? probably not but it would hide any leaky voltage in your tank or make your GFI trip more often from what I have read. I would never use one with out a GFI though as the GFI should be your first line of protection.

I would also hazord to guess that because the GFI protection is required
" by the National Electrical Code to be areas of higher hazard due to the possibility of water contact in the presence of current " that if you didn't have your fish tank on one your Insurance company would have grounds to turn down a claim should and electrical fire originate at your fish tank.

Steve