Floor support??

[Aquattro]

Has anyone ever needed to add support in their floor for a large tank? I'm setting up a 155 and I'm wondering if I need to address this. I figure with a flat bottom on the stand, it will be about 200 lbs/ft^2. The wall it will be against has an outside wall below it. Comments?

[Troy F]

I don't see it being a problem Brad. It definately won't go through the floor but you may get it leaning forward slightly; you could always shim slightly in advance. What is underneath the tank? Would installing bracing support be inconvenient?

[Aquattro]

Troy, the carport is underneath the tank. I would have to tear off stucco and drywall to add bracing. I'd use a support post but the tenant's entrance way is right there.

[Troy F]

Are the joists hung or sitting on the top plate?

Here is a suggestion; set up the tank in the place you want it and check the level with it empty. Then fill it with water and let it sit for a while and check again. You can then estimate what you'll have to shim. {If you come back and the tank has been replaced by a hole in the floor I would advise choosing another spot :D .}

[Aquattro]

Troy, the joists are resting on the top plate as far as I can tell. The part about there being a hole where the tank used to be is the scarey part. I'll investigate further and see if I can get inside the floor.

[Troy F]

Brad, there's no way that is going through the floor unless you have some dry rot or carpenter ants. Another question; how long a span do the joists cover?

Check it out the best you can but seriously with the weight spread out over ten square feet I can't see a problem.

Disclaimer: I may or may not have a clue what I'm talking about. Use above advice at your discretion.

[Aquattro]

Troy, not sure that's a legal disclaimer...you may still be responsible!!! hehe..

The span is about 12ft (garage width). I think it should be fine personally. But if not, I'll have my lawyer contact you :D

[SurfsUp]

hi
couldnt help but over hear your convesation :D

my biggest concern is how far apart,and size of timber used
in the construction of a home there are a few choices a builder has with the timber any where from 2x6 to 2x12, the spacing can go from 12,16,18 to 24,depending on what an engineer felt the maximum load bearing on the floor would be,im guessing he/she didnt count on someone putting a large tank on it .
being in the construction trade if you could fill me in on somemore details i could get a pretty good answer for you,
when i was setting up my 125 in my apartment,(9th floor),the floor was constucted out of what is known as CORE SLAB ,concrete slabs with holes,and steel cable going down the lenght of them.i didnt feel there would problem until i got talking to an engineer who designs and builds them.he told me for that kind of weight a corner with two load walls are ideal,the further i move away from the wall or to the center of the wall the more likely the wall well want to push out,or the slab may fracture ,he also told me to evenly place the stand across two slabs to increase the weight displacement to asure this was done he recommended using two pieces of 3/4 inch ply wood under the stand to help the displacement.
the reason for all that concern was simple, the 9th floor was the top and he was more than sure that the top slabs had a different rating than the bottom one.
but if your in a bit of a push to get going i would suggest that you get the tank in a corner with two walls under it
but like i said i could find ot more if i knew what was in the floor

hope this helps some

[Aquattro]

hmm...I could pour a concrete slab with post tension cabling, but my wife might balk!! The tank will be at a 45 angle from the wall with 2 load bearing walls beneath (corner of the garage. With the age of the house, I would guess the joists are true 2X8s (maybe 10) on 16" centers.I don't know what the floor is (plywood, slats, etc). The floor is finished in hardwood. The ceiling below is drywall covered with stucco. That's about all I can say without removing material.

[FishGeek]

I think I'll be fine! I have a 135gal tank with 200gal total water volume! My tank is supported by two walls! The tank has been set up for a bit over a year and no problems what so ever! The tank does tilt forward ever so slightly though! You have to understand that all stress calculations for buildings are done with saftey factors included into the design! Think of pianos. They weigh quite a bit but they are only supported by 4 small caster wheels and they don't go through the floor boards! Or think of water beds! Most hold in excess of 200gal of water plus the weight of the frame. But nobody seems to worry about the weight when they put it in the middle of their room on the second floor! I think it should be fine!

Simon

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by Reef_Raf:
The tank will be at a 45 angle from the wall with 2 load bearing walls beneath (corner of the garage. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can ya draw us a picture so we can see how the tank will sit in relation to the joists? :D

Steve

[Aquattro]

Originally posted by StirCrazy:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reef_Raf:
[qb]Can ya draw us a picture so we can see how the tank will sit in relation to the joists? :D

Steve<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um, no, I can't. YOU draw the picture!!

Actually, it is farther away from the second wall than I first thought. I still think it'll be fine!

[SurfsUp]

HI!

im pretty sure that engineer was looking at if from a saftey factor point of view.but i have seen floors and ceilings sag from the weight of water beds and the ocassional bathtub(very rare,ussally there was a deeper problem).
just the same i asked a carpenter/framer/general designer, friend of mine and he's telling me that if its next to a load bareing wall perpendicular to the floor joist with the quite common 16in center ,and 2x6 joist.then your golden,if the tank is 6-8 feet long your laughin even harder.but without any hesitation a piece of 3/4 in ply wood under the stand would be benefical in helping to ditribute the weight.
you may still get the tank listing forward but the old rule of thumb is that if it dosent bend it well break applies.you can still expect to get some flex out of the wood.
he also figured that you may here the floor creaking for the first while this may have to do with changes in humidity,temp and so on
other than that have at it!

as others have said before me though, i accept no responsability for personal injury or property damage. :eek:

[Aquattro]

Ya, I think I'll be fine. I measured the thickness of the floor and it is 10 inches including the flooring and ceiling below. This means 2 X 8s to me. All the joists I can see in utility rooms, etc, are 16" centers.
Hopefully it doesn't list right over on my head. If it goes through the floor, it's my tenant's car that gets it! I'm insured :D

[Aquattro]

Ok, so I swung the hammer today and removed the stucco. The joists are old style 2x10 (really 2 x 10 inches). I'm going to add a second 2x10 along side the existing ones. Only problem is wiring runs perpendicular to the joists.
Anyone have suggestions on the "best" way to get around that? Cutting the wires isn't an option. :D

[StirCrazy]

Do this, then nail them togeather..
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/studaddition.jpg

the only other way is to cut the wires..

Steve

[Silverfish]

About the wiring... TOLD YA SO!! tongue.gif :D

JK! I think that notching the joists might be a good plan, if the wiring is in the middle of the span, and the tank is sitting at one end of the span.

[Terrance Wong]

Steve,

I'm an architect so I know a little bit about structures. Cutting the such a deep notch will weaken the joist greatly...if you notch a 2x10 halfway through, you're essentially left with a 2x5.

Every member will undergo two stresses. A bending moment stress (greatest in the middle of the span), and a shear stress (greatest at the ends, close to a support).

In your configuration, the doubling up of the joist would strengthen the ability to resist shear by about 100%, but would only strengthen the moment by 50%, which of course is better than nothing.

That's why plumbers and electricians are suppose to drill holes down the middle of joists. The top section can still resist compression, and the bottom of the joist can resist tension.

If you want to get the most out of doubling up, is to remove the wire, drill a new hole, than reinstall.

People often double up joists to reduce deflection, but really you should also double up the structural stud walls so that the loads are tranferred down to the foundation.

Regards,

Terrance

[StirCrazy]

ya, I know all that but I was told removing the wire and running new wires was not a option in this case, so this was the only way that would work.

Steve

[Terrance Wong]

Steve,

I don't quite understand...is this not your own house? Why wouldn't you be able to loose power on that line for a day while you do this?

Terrance

[Aquattro]

Terrance, it's my house but I have tenants downstairs and don't want to inconvenience them any more than I already have. I think the floor is fine with what I did, although when the tenants move, I'll add a support wall in the carport below the tank.