Need help with wiring on workhorse

[One_Divided]

Tell me if this is possible.. I want to run 2 28w power compacts and 2 75w vho actinics on the same workhorse7.. Darren, I think you had mentioned that you had tried mixing bulbs before and had success.. do you or anyone else have any ideas as to how I might wire this configuration?

[DJ88]

Adam,

As long as you aren't going over the rated wattage of the ballast you can do it.. I am right now. Two PC's and an NO off of one workhorse 5. I can. still run one more lamp if I chose to.

Run one red wire to each lamp as "positive" or feed, then connect all the opposite ends of the VHO's and "negative" or return pins on the PC's.

get it?

This is assuming you have flat pin PC's two are "positive" and two are "negative". It is as easy as that. Much easier than any Icecap by far. IME IMO

*************************************************

My disclaimer.

If you want to use fulham workhorses and wire them up look for wiring diagrams at fulham.com. If you don't know how to, or don't understand electrical wiring as described on that site DON'T DO ANY OF THIS.

Electricity is very dangerous and these ballasts are putting out enough current to kill.

I have provided these numbers to give people more of a base from which to make decisions about how to light their tanks. If you aren't comfortable doing this wiring yourself, I won't do it for you. Sorry but I won't be held responsible for the electrical for your tank if it isn't done correctly and something happens.

[ 09 July 2002, 09:37: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[StirCrazy]

Adam, because of the design of the workhorse ballast it will only run 1 VHO bulb, and it requires 3 of the 4 leads for this. you couls run 2 VHO ballasts at HO levels by putting 2 leads to each bulb. the only way around it would be if you could run 2 75watt VHO bulbs in series then run one other bulb off the left over wire.. but I would sugest running them at HO levels and getting another ballast for the PC's.

hope this helps

Steve

*warning advice is dispensed on a "to the best of my knowledge" basis... always verify information for your self before trying something that could be potentially dangerous*

[DJ88]

Steve,

I have run multiple VHO's on a Workhorse.

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by DJ88:
Steve,

I have run multiple VHO's on a Workhorse.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">oh I don't dissagreee that you can do it Darren, but I am only saying to run them properly you need 3 of the 4 leads.. this is confermed on the fultham page in the wireing diagrams also. otherwise you will be underdriving them the same, or worse than a icecap does depending on if you use one wire or two. :D

Steve

[One_Divided]

thanks for the quick respose guys.. Well hmmmm..

The PCs are not 4 leads in a row type.. they're the 2x2 kind (10Q base).

The VHOs are already running on an icecap 430, but I hoped I could combine the pcs and vhos on the workhorse and free up the icecap.. The vhos are already on my 33 and the 28ws are going on the fuge and mantis tank.

maybe I'll just buy a workhorse specifically for the PCs and run the VHOs alone on the workhorse.

Or I also have 2 NO bulbs I could run with the 28ws.. How would their intensity compare to the vhos on the icecap? any ideas?

[ 04 July 2002, 21:25: Message edited by: One_Divided ]

[Delphinus]

Steve and DJ88, I'm not sure I follow. If a person were to say run 2x110W VHO off a WH7, and the bulbs are "underdrived as bad as an Icecap" (I keep thinking about Tim Hortons when I hear the word "Icecap", BTW :D ) ... but an Icecap runs the lights brighter than say a tar VHO ballast ... are the two 110's brighter on the WH7 same as they are supposedly on the Icecap, or will it be similar to running them on a tar ballast? :confused:

If you take a WH7 which is supposedly rated at 220W, but take 3 of the four leads to one 110W, what does that leave for what else can be run off that same ballast? How much juice comes off one lead?

This is all academic to me ... I don't have a WH ... (yet :D ) just trying to understand the different possibilities.

cheers

[DJ88]

Tony,

I have taken two 75W VHO's and run them off of one Workhorse 5(128W total) no problem.

To verify this I just hooked up a wkhse 5 and an Icecap430 and tested them at 3" distance with my PAR sensor.

First is the 430's output. This is done with two lamps. It's the only measurement I could take as you can't hook up only one lamp or single wires on an Icecap.

330.

Next are the measurements for the Wkhse5 single lamp with 1-4 wires

*note the funny numbers I had earlier were due to a lose connection. My apologies guys. The numbers make more sense now*

1 wire - 130
2 wires - 150
3 wires - 204
4 wires - 230

Wkhse5 two lamp with 2 & 4 wires(one or two into each lamp)

2 wires - 164
4 wires - 220

Take that as you want. To me the fulham drawings are a recommended hook up. By running 4 wires into one lamp all you are doing is over driving it if the ballast is much larger than the lamp. One wire does the same as three. I retested this a couple of times to verify that I wasnt' messed up with this.

HTH

[ 05 July 2002, 13:59: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by DJ88:

Wkhse5 two lamp with 2 & 4 wires(one or two into each lamp)

2 wires - 164
4 wires - 220

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Darren the "2 wires - 164" is that one wire to each bulbs? if so it would appear that the out put of one ballast is identical to the icecap.

Steve

[DJ88]

Yes Steve. One wire to each lamp only.

[ 05 July 2002, 10:44: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[StirCrazy]

Hurry I am going Camping ;) :D

Steve

[Delphinus]

Seems these WH's are a keen little secret weapon then ... smile.gif

Thanks for the info

[DJ88]

Wkhse 6

single lamp

1 wire - 156
2 wires - 213
3 wires - 266
4 wires - 296

Two lamps

2 wires - 200 (one wire to each lamp)
4 wires - 281 (two wires to each lamp)

[ 05 July 2002, 13:56: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[DJ88]

I'll get the Wkhse 7 up a bit later. Need to do some things around here. smile.gif

[DJ88]

For ease of reading here is a breakdown of the PAR put out by each ballast running 75W VHO Aquasuns. Measured at 3" form the lamp.

Workhorse 5 (Two lamps parallel) - 220
Workhorse 5 (Single lamp parallel) - 230
Magnatek (Single lamp) - 243
Workhorse 6 (Two lamp parallel) - 281
Workhorse 6 (Single lamp parallel) - 296
PFO (Single lamp kit) - 296
Icecap 430 (Two lamp) - 330
Workhorse 5 (Two lamps series) - 358
Hellolights (Two lamp) - 371
Icecap 660 (Two lamp) - 380
Workhorse 6 (Two lamps series) - 499

[ 06 July 2002, 16:55: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[DJ88]

As an FYI....

Hellolights 2 lamp retrofit kit.

371

IceCap660 (two lamps)

380

I'll get the Wkhse 6 and 7 data up a bit later..

[ 05 July 2002, 13:47: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[DJ88]

PFO single VHO/PC ballast.

296

[ 05 July 2002, 13:44: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[ldzielak]

Darren,

What about connecting 2 lamps in series. I have a WH7 and I played with various connetions and found that if I connected 2x 36" philips Atinics in series and then 2 wires to these, I got the best overdrive for the buck. I then used the left over 2 wires on a single Philips Daylight bulb, by over driving it, the spectrum "looks" more blue. This was the best setup could over drive 3 36" bulbs. I tried 4 bulbs (overdrivin 2 wires and in series) but the balast would not handle the load captain!!

What do you think is going on here?

Lee

[ 08 July 2002, 02:06: Message edited by: Lee ]

[DJ88]

Ok new data.. Thanks Lee.. I forgot about doing them in series.

workhorse 5 in series with:

1 wire - 180
2 wires - 256
3 wires - 295
4 wires - 358

Workhorse 6 in series with :
1 wire - 256
2 wires - 358
3 wires - 417
4 wires - 499

Man that hurt the eyes.

I am not sure about the wiring and how running them in series gives them that zip Lee. I am assuming that when you start wiring the lamps in series you are taking that extra boost you can see by running a single lamp over two in parallel and driving two lamps in that fashion. All I really know is that the workhorse 6 in series hurt. I have a headache now.

As an aside.. I measured the wkhse 6(two 75W lamps in series) at 18". It is no where near the testing set up Sanjay did for the MH but I took a reading of 65. That is as good as many MH's out there.

*This was a quick approximation and in no way recreates the testing done by Sanjay and is NOT a direct comparison. Just an FYI. Pretty interesting none the less.*

Another FYI.. I measured my 400W Ushio at 18" with a reflector. 384 was what I measured. So keep that in mind for a perspective.

[ 06 July 2002, 16:55: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[ldzielak]

When I did all my testing with my 2 x 36" Atinics, with my buddy, we found the series circuit did kick some ass, can't wait for some numbers from your WH7.

Now I see why walking through the house after, we could see only in yellow like some kickass drugs. (all our testing was done in the garage, at night and turning my normaly garage lights off.)

The voltage must increase huge for the longer firing distance, tricking the ballast to max the power. I was too lazy to even pull out my Fluke and do some simple test. The eye ball test were obvious.

I did this at Christmas and have not run the bulbs long term in this configuration so as always, attempt this at your own risk.

Thanks Darren for the tests..

Lee

[ 06 July 2002, 20:49: Message edited by: Lee ]

[DJ88]

Anytime Lee.

I'll take this time as well to say it myself. Attempt the various setups of these lamps at your own risk. Tho I will say Fulham does show some of these configurations on their web site.

I'll get up the Wkhse 7 numbers soon. Gotta attack this list of things I have been putting off. I keep getting distracted. :D

[DJ88]

Two 4' daylight NO's in parallel gave a PAR of 263.

Single NO tube gave 256.

Both on a workhorse6.

[ 07 July 2002, 17:26: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[DJ88]

Bit of info for those who may be following this. Tho I doubt no one 'cept a few are.. lol ;)

I just put the two 75W VHO's over my tank about 2" off the water.. Running the lamps in series I had glimmer lines. Not as bright as my 400W makes(of course) but they were about the equal of a 175W MH. yeah.. and I am not sh!tting you.

[StirCrazy]

cool, did you get the WH7 tested out yet smile.gif

I wonder if you could do the same thing by running pc's in series..

Steve

[DJ88]

I haven't had the chance to test the 7 yet.. I will tho..

I can't see any reason you can't run some PC's in series as well. You'd probably get more zip out of those than the VHO's. Smaller diameter will mean more efficient running.

[ldzielak]

Shimmer :cool: :cool:

But what are the side affects, still need the Tylenol. Lights are too much fun.....

[DJ88]

My disclaimer.

If you want to use fulham workhorses and wire them up look for wiring diagrams at fulham.com. If you don't know how to, or don't understand electrical wiring as described on that site DON'T DO ANY OF THIS.

Electricity is very dangerous and these ballasts are putting out enough current to kill.

I have provided these numbers to give people more of a base from which to make decisions about how to light their tanks. If you aren't comfortable doing this wiring yourself, I won't do it for you. Sorry but I won't be held responsible for the electrical for your tank if it isn't done correctly and something happens.

[StirCrazy]

Darren, do you have a diagram of a panasonic type square pin PC arangment?

Steve

[Aquattro]

Darren, if you won't do this for me, who will??? I don't mind doing it, but if I die,well, that would suck.
I know, I'll get Steve to do it...he's hardly blown up anything!! :D

[StirCrazy]

oh arn't we a comedian :D :D

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Nice thread...just back from vacation smile.gif Nice work Darren.

BTW, are those series lamp PAR measurements done with two lamps -- in other words, each lamp produces half the PAR that was state ? If so...I can provide an explaination for this phenomenon.

As for series with PCs, you may need a WH6 to make it work well. WH7 and WH6 are a little different.

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by reefburnaby:
Hi,

As for series with PCs, you may need a WH6 to make it work well. WH7 and WH6 are a little different.

- Victor.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">what do you mean by this Victor? are you saying a WH6 will run 2, 55watt pc's in series and a WH7 won't?

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Say..are you using the japanese PCs or the german ones ?

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

they are coralife "german" 4 in a row.
I heard that these are suposed to be harder to light than the panasonic style but I am not sure.

Steve

[SuperFudge]

Two questions if i could,

Are theyre N/O lights such as the philips 03,that will not show a difference being run on a VHO ballast?

In relation to the above topic,has anyone tested ballast draw when running in the different wiring scenario`s ?

Thanks,Marc.

[reefburnaby]

Stircrazy,

You wouldn't have a wiring diagram of what you tried...would you ?

SuperFudge,

No. I haven't tried too many wiring scenarios with this WH (or overdrive). I was more concerned with long term reliabilty and how overdrive could produce more light than how hard I could push the technology.

- Victor.

[DJ88]

Nice work Darren.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Victor.. How was your vacation?

I did measure ments for single and dual lamps in series and in parallel. If it says single lamp parallel it is all four wires into the one lamp. Two lamp series means all four into one lamp. WIring out of hte other end of that lamp into the next lamp which is then connected to the yellow "return" feed wire.

Parallel dual lamp means two wires into each lamp with the yellow connnected to both lamps.

Anything more?

Marc,

I guess I answered your questions on the phone right?

[StirCrazy]

Originally posted by reefburnaby:
Stircrazy,

You wouldn't have a wiring diagram of what you tried...would you ?

- Victor.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ask and ye shal recive :D :D

*** Just for a note this did NOT work so don't try it.***

http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/55wattseries.jpg

Steve

[ 21 July 2002, 16:45: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Hmm...well, I am not sure if that will actually work. No worries...no damage should be done to the tubes or the ballast. To wire this baby,

1) Yellow wires are correct.
2) Let's imagine the red+blue wires between the tubes are orange and green. Short the orange and green together.
3) The red+blue wires should be shorted together.

That's it...give that a try.

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

No Dammage was done.. I am running them with two wires each now and it is brignt enuf so I am not going to play with it due to the nature of my plugs.. but I will try something different in the future as I am swapping my 3 actinic bulbs for 2, 96 watt PC actinic and another 96 watt 10000K PC. so this will be 5 96 watt PC bulbs I have to power some how..

Steve