Live Rock

[Jaws]

I'm on my way to pick up 100lbs of Live Rock I've recently purchased for my 180G tank. The tank won't be ready to add live rock for about a week or two so I'll be putting it in a garbage can until it's ready. My question for everyone is do you see any harm in using the water from my 70G tank I have set up now for the live rock in the garbage can. Normally I wouldn't see a problem with this but the tank I have set up has a slowly fading hair algae problem as well as an aptaisa problem. Both of these I tend to get rid of over the next couple weeks but can either of these be a problem for the new live rock? Keep in mind that there will be no light in the garbage can so any algae would virtually die anyways.

[Johnny Reefer]

IMO, you'll be fine, but just a side observation....
you will be heating the LR holding vat, won't you :question:

Good luck with your new 180, Jason! :biggrin:

Cheers,

[untamed]

Maybe too late for this advice..but I would avoid getting the LR until you are actually ready for it. If you keep it in a garbage can for two weeks, you're going to have what I call "bio filtration rock"...because you will have killed any real life that was on it.

Bio-filtration rock has an important purpose and all...just don't overpay for live rock if all you want is filtration.

[Tarolisol]

As long as the water is kept moving, with a pump, and the waters heated it will stay ALIVE. It will only loose some corraline algea with has nothing to do with the use of live rock anyways.

[Van down by the river]

I'd agree with Johnny Reefer and untamed. Keeping the rock in a garbage can for a week or two is a complete waste. you will get huge die off and will end up with bare rock. You will kill all the coralline and it will eventually turn white. The rock would be better off in a system with lights, filtration, and strong water movement. Leave it at the store until you are ready for it. If you are just looking for base rock, post a request for old live rock. You can pick it up from other reefers and then put some fresh stuff on the top layers.

As long as the water is kept moving, with a pump, and the waters heated it will stay ALIVE. It will only loose some coralline algae with has nothing to do with the use of live rock anyways.


Fresh rock will start to crash if it only has heated moving water.Water changes and filtration are also required to remove excess nutrients. Coralline algae is a big part of Good live rock. It's part of the reason we pay so much for rock. Otherwise you could buy Dead dry rocks for 1/4 the price and just seed them with bacteria from an existing tank.
The problem with this method (bare rock/mostly dead) is that it encourages hair algae growth. Coralline algae and the many other organisms are an important part of a healthy and attractive reef. They make your rock attractive as well as providing a settlement site for corals. They also compete with algae for nutrient. The bucket is likely to get Sulfur dioxide buildup in the bottom half and this kills all the beneficial organisms that are so important to our reef. Most of the Copepods,worms,brittlestars and various inverts will die in this low oxygen,no light, poor water quality environment.

Unfortunately, many stores pitch this as "curing" live rock. This is just their way of convincing you to buy their crappy dead rock.
The reason it's called LIVE ROCK is because of the expense and trouble we go through to collect it and transport it as quickly as possible from the other side of the world. Good live rock should be cared for and treated like corals. The end result is clearly worth the effort.

If you have to store the rock, I would suggest a Rubbermaid tub. It will have more surface area and be less prone to sulfur dioxide buildup. water changes will also go a long way to keeping the rock healthy and preventing unnecessary die off.

[reeferaddict]

Jason, I would mix up some new water to store your rock in. Why risk contaminating that gorgeous new setup with past problems? I'm assuming you're getting cured rock, in which case sitting a week or two in circulated water will be just fine. DO change some of the water every few days, skim it if possible, and give it some light.

Before I get flamed, let me share a personal observation. Earlier this spring a friend of mine gave me some rock he had stored dry for 3 years.... we're talking pearly white here... not a SNIFF of life... I was going to use it as base rock, but rather decided to "cure" it as I wanted to make sure it had never had copper etc, as he used it in a fish only system... I kept it in a rubbermaid container using a powerhead for circulation, and the change water from my tanks that I changed once a week. Kept this way for two months, receiving nothing but room and a little sunlight, I was AMAZED when I removed it to find patches of coralline algae and at the bottom of the rubbermaid I had pods, mysids... you name it.... the rock was indeed ALIVE.

I showed you some of those pieces when you came over... So if dead rock can be live rock under those conditions in a couple months, I see no reason why you can't keep yours for a couple weeks, with little, if any, adverse effects. If the rock you get has macroalgae or sponges, I would just smell it to make sure it smells fresh before you put it in your tank.

Just my 2 bits from my own experience.

[Jaws]

Thanks guys. I have a powerhead in there but no heater. Should I add a heater ya think?

[Johnny Reefer]

I'd agree with Johnny Reefer and untamed. Keeping the rock in a garbage can for a week or two is a complete waste.

To be clear....I didn't say it'd be a waste. I said I think it'd be fine.

Further to my previous post, Jason....
I think you should use a 50/50 mix of your 70g water and new water.
I think you'd be fine with just ambient room light. (I know of a certain LFS that didn't have lighting over their LR holding tank for quite some time and it was fine).
Also, as others have said, in addition to the heating, definitely circulate the water and do water changes. I'd change 20% daily.

Cheers,

[Van down by the river]

Before I get flamed, let me share a personal observation. Earlier this spring a friend of mine gave me some rock he had stored dry for 3 years.... we're talking pearly white here... not a SNIFF of life... I was going to use it as base rock, but rather decided to "cure" it as I wanted to make sure it had never had copper etc, as he used it in a fish only system... I kept it in a Rubbermaid container using a powerhead for circulation, and the change water from my tanks that I changed once a week. Kept this way for two months, receiving nothing but room and a little sunlight, I was AMAZED when I removed it to find patches of coralline algae and at the bottom of the Rubbermaid I had pods, mysids... you name it.... the rock was indeed ALIVE.


No flaming, just reviewing the facts.
The rock was dry, at the end of the story you deemed it alive.
A quick review of your process quickly explains the "magic" appearance of organisms. I think it's quite obvious. They came from your existing tank. When you changed water you added coralline algae spores, nutrients,mysids, and copepods. Many of these are very easy to miss. With the addition of water and nutrients the algae settled and started to grow. Many species of coralline algae can survive in very low light. Now with nutrients and microscopic algae and nutrients the Copepods have a food source. Without predators even a little food can sustain them.

But we are comparing two different Items. For seeding Dead rock I think this is actually a great method and very similar to what I suggested above.
This is a great example of organisms ability to colonize.

What we are trying to prevent is him paying for good live rock and losing the majority of the life on it. Sure he could eventually get the coralline back, and SOME of the original organisms, but why take two steps back to take one step forward.

[Tarolisol]

I kept my live rock in a garbage bin heated with a mag 18 pump for a month with no problems, rock stayed alive. There is no difference in keeping it in a garbage bin with ambiant room light then there is with a glass tank, the only differnece is you can see into one.

[Jaws]

I bought the rock from a girl in town shutting down her tank for. It only cost $3 a pound and it's really nice rock. I'm not too worried about the coraline algae if it's only going to be in there for a couple weeks. I have a Fluval sitting around doing nothing. Would it be a good idea to add that?

[Johnny Reefer]

I have a Fluval sitting around doing nothing. Would it be a good idea to add that?

I see no reason why not.
You could get the circulation from it, at the least.

Cheers,

[untamed]

Well...we can argue all day about the definition of "live" rock. My definition is different than most...which is why I think we should differentiate between live rock and bio-filtration rock.

In my opinion, the main goal of live rock is introduce a vast amount of life forms into the system. This is best done by the fastest, least damaging method of getting rock from ocean to healthy tank as fast as possible.

Further on that thought, this means that the rock should enter a system that has already cycled and is already capable of supporting a bio-load. Done this way, the rock will reward with an amazing abundance of life beyond algae.

A well outfitted garbage can is just an aquarium that has not yet cycled. Yes, some life can survive the cycling process, but the more interesting stuff cannot.

[Ruth]

I feel like one of my kids - the first thing that popped into my mind was "ya but" I think what you are describing would be the ideal situation - unfortunately the only way to do that in this part of the world would be to get some "live" rock from another reefer that happens to live within an hour or two of you and get that into an already cycled tank. Our problem is that any "new" live rock from a distributor will have to travel some distance and time thereby making a cycle almost inevitable because you are going to have some die off or am I missing something here? I am just starting up another tank. I have the water in with some water from my established tank. I need about 3-400 lbs of live rock. How am I going to get that without any die off ergo no cycle to kill what is there?

[Johnny Reefer]

Further on that thought, this means that the rock should enter a system that has already cycled and is already capable of supporting a bio-load. Done this way, the rock will reward with an amazing abundance of life beyond algae.

When I set up my 135g tank last February I started off with 34 lbs of cured LR. The tank never did cycle because of the LR. In other words, it cycled immediately, if you get me. Sure, I got the usual brown and hair algae but no ammonia spike and no nitrite spike. Just low nitrates right from the get go.
Another way of looking at it is, in my case, it was the LR that made the tank, not the tank making the LR.

FWIW.

Cheers,

[StirCrazy]

I am going to go out on a limb and probably get flammed by any store owners but yes I would put it in a dark (totaly black) container with good cirulation and a heater. then do water changes on it every week or two untill no more junk comes ut of the rock (about 2 months)

I know a lot of stores now promote the algaes on rock as what makes it live but the simple fact is 99% of the algaes are nussence algaes that can cause problems laiter. the thing that makes live rock live is the bacteria and the pods/worms ect. coraline algae is fast growing and easy to start so losing that is no big deal, but the process of "cooking" the rock if you got time can solve a lot of problems befor they happen.

I know people are going to argue that good skimming/waist removal will take care of any algae problems but face it not everyone has the ability to be set up 100% perfect and even then some times you can still have algae problems.

I would much rather buy rock that is bare and full of pods than have any sort of algae on it anyday.

Steve