54 gallon perc tank

[dunl]

I want to do up 54 gallon bowfront tank as a percula tank, with a 15 gllon sump.

Just looking for suggestion, as this will be my first saltwater tank.

[Joe Reefer]

Read and do as much research as possible before any purchases are made.

[dunl]

Not a beginner here, just in saltwater. Guess I should have mentioned that. :redface:


I've been reading for months, looking for member's suggestions now, as I am all ready to start the tank cycling. Looking to hash out the suggestions over the next month or so while I cycle it... Basically, I'm looking for different types of suggestions for a FOWLR setup.

After experience with that, I might look at corals, but that will probably be at least six months down the road...

Dunl

[Ruth]

My suggestion to you would be to try and imagine where you want to be in a year or two and buy equipment that is suited for that kind of tank. I know that I have more pieces of equipment from skimmers to pumps to lights that I thought would suit my needs and were a "good deal" just laying around. Spend the money up front because it will save you money down the road. The 3 that I would highly recommend that you go for overkill (at least it will seem that way right now) are skimmer, lights and flow.

[dunl]

Done.


Now I'm looking for suggestions on setups for a 54 gallon bowfront percula tank.

Thanks,
Dunl :cool:

[Richer]

When I had my 30g half cube (24"x24"x12") running, I always wanted to convert it into a clown tank... a big anemone, and a small group of 3-4 percs.

Of course, with your tank, you'd probably want to have your LR and fish in there for a few months just to have things stabilized before you can even think of putting an anemone in there.

-Rich

[dunl]

Yeah, I was thinking that I could wait a while on an anemone.

I'm looking for ideas on landscaping (high, low, spread out???), tankmates, cleaner crew, etc. Just interested in what others have done.....

[vertex]

I'd aquascape things how you want for now and don't intend to keep it that way. Once you add the anenome(s) it will find a place it likes and your best bet is to re-aquascape around its general position. Mine seems to always go to the sot I didn't want it to, so I let it settle, then rearrange everything how I liked it. It stays in the same spot now. Every now and then it might take a cruise around the tank (every couple of months) but always goes back to the same spot.

If you don't have a lot of rock, the anenome is probably more like to stay on ajoining rock, so if you have a place you want it, you may not want other rocks nearlyby for it to move to. It will circle the one you put it on and hopefully settle in. (hopefully I said).

hope that helps.

[dunl]

Thanks. That helps for getting the anemone settled. I do plan to have pretty heavy rockwork in there.

Any other suggestions out there?

[OCDP]

What exactly do you mean by perc tank? I am not sure if it has been covered (becuase I am too lazy to read the thread :razz: ) But just so you know, you can only house two percula clownfish in one tank. That being one male, one female.

If you have more questions, shoot... if you already knew this then you're good to go !

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

I would get a mix of LR. I especially like a little bit of Tonga branching LR to help make arches & bridges within the rockwork. When I aquascape my reef tank, I set a few larger pieces on the bottom to act as a solid foundation & then I wedge in the other smaller/longer pieces to help form caves & caverns for my fish to swim through. I also try to add some flatter pieces to give me shelves for putting my corals on.

Aquascaping is really in the eye of the beholder & what one person likes may not be what looks nice to you. By having an "open" structure like described above, it also gives the anemone many choices as to where it wants to plant its foot & stick its "head" out. It also allows you to get higher up towards the light without overloading the tank with too much LR.

Is the tank 3' or 4" long? Keeping an anemone happy will usually require MH lighting & trying to save money by buying cheaper lighting will end up costing you in the future when you almost inevitably upgrade (speaking frim experience here :redface: ) Like the others mentioned, plan ahead & try to do it right the first time, because constant upgrading will lead to a closet full of unused equipment & a big hole in the wallet. On the other hand, if you already have a simple fluorescent fixture, that will work in the Fowlr until you are ready for an anemone or corals.

Having a sump is good because it gives you more choices when it comes to skimmers. Others can give you more recommendations about skimmers but I'm happy with my (HOB) Remora Pro & (non-HOB) Tunze.
Remember that most manufacturers waaay over exaggerate the capacity of their skimmers, especially Prisms/Prism Pros & SeaClones.

A pair of Cleaner/Peppermint/Fire shrimp & some snails are almost always good tankmates for clowns. For hermits, I find blue-legged & neon blue-legged are the best.

Yellow watchman gobies, clown gobies, lawn mower blennies, and other small hardy bottom-dwellers add some extra life & interest to a tank.

A pair of Bangaii cardinals (males have longer dorsal fins) or a trio of Chromis can help add movement & colour to the mid-water region.

BTW, clowns do not need anemones to survive. It is great to witness the symbiotic relationship, but anemones are not the easiest to keep alive in captivity, I have found clowns hosting in colts, rhodactis mushrooms, finger leathers & toadstool corals, all of which are hardier & require less light. If you go this route, 96w PCs or VHO lighting would be fine. However, if you like high light requiring corals/clams, then definitely invest in the MH system.

Hope you had fun reading this essay :biggrin:

Anthony

[dunl]

No, Anthony, the essay was just fine. Good suggestions, and basically what I was looking for. By a "perc tank", I mean that the main focus is to have a tank that houses a pair of percs, but I am looking to "fill" it (as it were) with a good variety of other lifeforms to give the most appealing tank I can.

I'm well-versed in cichlids, so I have also gone the cheapie to expensive route before. I wasn't originally thinking of an anemone, and I think I will pass on the lighting as well for now. It's my first saltwater, so if I decide to jump into corals and such later on, I will make the expense then. I still have a heavy FW habit to keep going.

Here's a picture of the tank....
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid187/pfe2dd8694d582141bc1a68f1f1cd3cc7/f24c3152.jpg

[OCDP]

Wow.. nice tank. I need a bowfront :razz:

It's going to look real nice all setup... I like the stand a lot as well :wink:

[dunl]

One of Rob's stands....seems to be a popular piece of work, judging from the responses here...

http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=4097&st=0&hl=

[danny zubot]

Wow, another awsome stand by Rob at Majestic. I'm kind of wondering why I sold the tank now. :biggrin:

I had about 60-70 lbs of LR in the tank when I had it and it filled up pretty good with that much. I kind of stacked it up high in the back corner and along the sides and left the middle open. Do you have the spray bar thing I used for the return? It will help with the flow in the back of the tank. What kind of lights did you have in mind for it?

[dunl]

I do have the spray bar and will be using it. As for lights, I'm not sure right now. I'm just planning to do FOWLR right now.

What did you have in it for lights? I assume they are still the same, an Aqua-Glo and a Marine Glow I think?

[danny zubot]

Yes, those are the bulbs I used originally, but not while I had the reef going. I stuffed a dual 65watt PC and a 250 watt MH over it when the reef was going.

[dunl]

If I decide to do corals, I'll invest in the money then. For now, I'm just going to stick with the original lighting. :)

[Joe Reefer]

If I decide to do corals, I'll invest in the money then.

I've heard that before.

[dunl]

I've heard that before.

And your point?

[Joe Reefer]

All I am saying is once that certain coral or anemone catches your eye you'll be hooked.
Strong light is also healthy to the fish. IMO

[dunl]

Hooked doesn't mean I'm going to go about it stupid, though. :biggrin:

[reeferaddict]

Intense light is the key to keeping an anemone... they also like good flow... and clean water... so I second what Ruth says... (go overkill on those three and take it from a guy with a shed full of junk),but they'll move to where they like the best.... Perc's like groups... I have 4 in my 135 and at night they all huddle into my ever expanding rittieri ... It appears that they've even split into two mated pairs, as two have grown a fair bit larger than the other two and they always seem to be paired up with one of the smaller ones... but they all get along fine... Maroons and most other clowns DO however need to be kept singly or in mated pairs... regardless of what you may see at the LFS. With NO lighting I predict your anemone will wither away and die within a month... just my two bits.

[dunl]

I'm not planning to get an anemone. If I do in the future, I would get proper lighting at the time, before I purchased the anemone.


Does anyone have any other suggestions for a 54 gallon bowfront with a pair of percs, the original lighting, and no anemones or corals.

I believe that's what we call a FOWLR setup, as previously mentioned? :biggrin:

[Renegade]

I would highly recommend lights, regardless ifs its a FOWLR tank. One of the things that IMO makes a reef is the bright crisp light. I started with a 44 gal corner tank with a 20" coralite fixture. Of course now i want brighter but am not sinking anymore money into this tank. I am now setting up a 120 going all out on it but thats not my point. With my corner i have two anemones, a bubble tip, and a long tentacle anemone. They are both doing very well. My tank stocks 2 paired percs. currently guarding there 3 batch of eggs, a yellow tang, a 6 line wrasse, a sunrise dottyback and a mandarin dragonet.

How ever if i were in your shoe's I would take that chance to do things "right" from the beginning. You will want a coral or an anemone at some point because you may find something your really like or simply because can’t have one. But fine You’re doing a FOWLR tank, don’t forget your LR wants light too. For me anyways the whole point of the LR (besides filtration) is looks. I want a reef in my bedroom. I want it to be covered in coralline algae and feather busters little bits of coral that grows on the rock. That’s why you pay so much for it. You don’t have to go out and buy coral to get it in your tank a lot of your LR will be covered in things.

I’d just really take the advice of some of these guys (and girls) seriously. some of them have been doing this along time and know what there talking about and don't be a smartass with comments like:

"does anyone have any other suggestions for a 54 gallon bowfront with a pair of percs, the original lighting, and no anemones or corals.

I believe that's what we call a FOWLR setup, as previously mentioned? "

I’m not trying to start a fight I just thought that was a little rude. You asked for peoples 2 cents and they gave it to you. To be honest i think your missing the point of a FOWLR tank.

But thats JMO

If you want advice on how to set up your tank well then. As mentioned above get an asortment of rock. I bought 10 ponds here and there finding the right pieces for my aquascaping. i let it cycle and started to slowly add fish. I gave my tank a fairly deep sandbed which is a debate that will go one forever. Bare bottom or sand bed. I made fiends with guys from J&L's got advice and help when needed. I almost never shop anywhere else. They have been great and will probly always have me my main fish store. The main thing i can say is go slow, read your gonna make mistakes but IMO thats how you learn. Well keep us posted with your tank.

Kyle

[Majestic_Aquariums]

Good luck with the new tank Darcy!

We have had a few discussions in regards to what his lighting needs are; now, and into the future when he decides to get into corals/anemonies, and Darcy is well aware of what will be needed down the road for MH should he go this route.

[dunl]

As Rob mentioned, we have discussed lighting for this tank for the now, and in the future. I'm well aware of what is needed for the lighting.

I’m not trying to start a fight I just thought that was a little rude.You asked for peoples 2 cents and they gave it to you.

I'm not trying to start a fight, or be rude (that's why I toss in the smilies :biggrin: ), but this thread is turning into a "lighting" or equipment thread. I've never asked about equipment, specifically lighting. Rather....

I'm looking for ideas on landscaping (high, low, spread out???), tankmates, cleaner crew, etc.

I'm well aware that there is a wealth of experience on here. However, being a cichlid guy, to me it's like asking for specific advice on breeding a species of cichlid, only to get 10 responses on how and why you should cycle your tank first, and not bring the fish home from the store and dump them in an unfiltered tank. :eek:

It's kind of hard not to shake my head when most of the suggestions here (although really very useful ones) focus on something completely different that I haven't asked about. I'm simply looking for ideas on how people have or would set up the interior of a 54 bowfront housed with at the least, pair of perculas, no anemone. Tankmates, landscaping, cleaner crew, etc. What would you put in it.

Maybe it's my fault for not being specific enough in the beginning, so perhaps I should just start a new thread? :cry:

I take each and every response I get for full thought, but if we could stick to the information I'm actually seeking, that would be great. :)

[Richer]

Looking for a bit more info on your part... do you plan on putting in a sandbed? If so, how deep? How much LR are you planning on putting into this tank?

I've always wanted to put a goby of some sort and pistol shrimp into my tank... but never was able to, seeing how I've always needed to keep BB tanks due to the amount and direction of flow that I've had in my tanks. I find watching a pistol shrimp and goby interact to be very interesting. Another fish that I've always liked were algae blennies. Just make sure you try to train it onto nori asap, or there's a chance it may not find enough food on your rocks and slowly starve to death. A sixline wrasse would be a nice choice... they're tough, colourful, and IME easy to train onto prepared foods. Just make sure to add those fish last to your tank. I've read quite a few stories of sixlines beating on newcomers.

-Rich

[muck]

Darcy,

If it were my tank I would..

As far as aquascaping goes...
stack the rock along the outside of the tank making sure there is an abundance of nooks and crannys that fish could swim through. Then in the middle I would place a rock or two to create a small island surrounded by sand.

As for a livestock list..
I really like my Yellow Coris Wrasse. Great splash of color and always cruising the tank in the open.
I would also suggest a dwarf angel. They won't grow so big as to outgrow your tank but are really attractive and really add to the tank.
I will also second Richer's suggestion of a Lawnmower Blenny. Very neat little fish and will help keep your tank clean.

Cleaning crew..
Cleaner Shrimp! They have to be the coolest critters. Mine will jump onto my hand almost as soon as I put it in the tank and start cleaning away. Mine also seem to be quite active as well.
I would also get an assortment of snails. Trochus, Turbo, Astrea. I would stay away from the Margarita snails though as they are really a cooler water snail and don't seem to adapt as well to our tanks.
Hermits.. Well thats a personal choice. Many people with reefs don't like them as they can be some what of a PITA. Moving corals around, knocking stuff over, attacking their snails. I personally have had no problems with mine and quite enjoy watching them scurry around. If you decide you would like them. I would stick with the blue-leg, scarlet or the left-handed(zebra legged) hermits.

There you have it..
Hope my suggestions might help you design your little slice of ocean to your liking.. :biggrin: :cool:

[dunl]

Richer:

Looking for a bit more info on your part... do you plan on putting in a sandbed? If so, how deep? How much LR are you planning on putting into this tank?

I wasn't planning on putting in a sand bed, but I think I might now - just for looks. For me, coming from Prince Edward Island, it just doesn't look right with a glass bottom. :lol: I have no interest in using it as a live sand bed, as I really don't see the need for one with proper filtration and live rock.

I currently have about 60-70lb of rock in the tank (live and tufa), and I also have a huge base stone of limestone (must weigh about 40lb itself, and not sure if I'm keeping it or not....)

Muck:

Thanks, that's the type of ideas I was looking for. :biggrin:

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Putting in aragonite sand in the tank will turn it eventually into a live sand bed anyways :biggrin: This is good because if you get sand sifters, like some gobies, sand stars, etc., they'll need a good live sand bed to stay healthy & well-fed. I have a yellow watchman & twin spot gobies & I love watching them sift the sand for me. You'll also want to keep it at only 1 or 2" deep (at least that seems to be the recommended depth nowadays). I too don't like the look of a bare bottom, but I know many other reefers (especially SPS lovers) swear by bb.

Anthony

[dunl]

Wouldn't any type of sand eventually become a live sand bed? I've read the pros and cons before, but I just can't see a sand bed not becoming "live" eventually.

Is the controversy just for it to become "live enough" to support these sifters?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Live mostly refers to the bacteria from your LR colonizing the sand, turning it into LS. Ideally, if you can get some old LS from an established tank that has pods, mysis shrimp & other creatures living in it already, these will help populate the tank & feed your fish. Aragonite sand is usually used because it keeps your calcium & pH levels higher, which makes life easier for you & will especially help if/when you decide to add corals. The vast majority of sw fish are coming into the LFS within a week or so of being captured from the tropical seas & so many will be a bit finicky about eating flake or frzn foods, so it is useful to have some live food (like pods & mysis) running around in the tank.

Anthony

[Richer]

If you like the look of a sandbed, but don't want the chance that it can become a detritus trap, you can always just have sand in areas that will be seen, then lightly vacuum it regularly and replace the sand as it slowly gets removed over time. Thats what this guy (http://www.oregonreef.com/) did and it seems to work... then again, not many of us have a tank as large as his :eek: . Still... something to consider.

-Rich

[dunl]

I have a fairly deep bed in my cichlid tank, but they dig it up a lot, sometimes burrowing right to the bottom. Becoming a dirt trap is a concern, so I would probably just go with a low level one on the bottom.

As for the calcium, the 40lb piece of limestone I have in there should help with that as much as it usually helps to buffer my cichlid tanks, I would think?

[Skimmerking]

nice tank love the look of the stand you will do good just take your time man.
FOr lighting i would go with maybe a set of T-5's and their ballast or if ya want to you can buy the Hagen glo MAT the 20-30-40 w its a cheap way to run the lighting you to have ..

Trust me i have tried losts of ligting and like the glo mats. and they take just the NO lighting bulbs.

pm your number ok we can talk ok


mike

[dunl]

Here's an updated pic...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid191/p5da87a377290f0c2e3bc259511c3c2e8/f1d3b5a7.jpg

[reeferaddict]

Limestone would help buffer your FW tank because it will actually dissolve rapidly in FW at a more neutral PH... in SW we want our PH high enough to support calcification... conditions not condusive to dissolving limestone. The only reason you will get dissolving with aragonite sand is because the PH is lower in the deeper layers.

[dunl]

What PH level should it be at?

[reeferaddict]

Natural sea water has a pH of 8.2. Anywhere between 8.1 - 8.4 is fine, though some minor fluctuations out of this range can also be acceptable.

Keeping alkalinity at 8 - 11 dKH will keep your pH in check. If you need info on alkalinity/chemistry, read up on Beverly's links, it's stuff you'll want to know.

[danny zubot]

Hey that pic brings back memories. Nice rockwork, my was similar. :biggrin:

[dunl]

Guess that lighting is sufficient, eh?

[Joe Reefer]

Rock work looks good.

What kind of lights are you using?

[dunl]

Thanks. It's just a 250W MH.

[danny zubot]

1 250 watt is what I used, in combination with a 24 inch dual 65 watt pc. I hope you aren't resting thelight right on the glass top, thats how my lights went swimming. :mad:

[dunl]

Yike - swimming lights. Not good.

No, they're resting on the canopy, so there are about 4-5 inches between them.....