salinity

[deep6er]

For some reason i am having trouble getting my salinity up. Its a new tank (33g) it has been runing for about 2 months. i just put 3 green chromis in the tank about a week ago. i did a 25% water change on monday. Filled it back up with water at the right salinity. But for some reason the salinity is low ( it's at 26ppt) 1 chromis has died today. I keep adding disolved salt but it goes up just a bit. I don't want to add to much.
What am i doing wrong? Does temp have a big part in this?
Sorry for the long post, but i just do not know what i am doing wrong.

[martym]

What are you using to test the water with? Sometime the plastic types aren't very reliable. If it is the plastic type, test it with ro water, it should read 1.0. If not give it a good cleaning and test it again. I use vinager and hot water to clean mine. just give it a good rinse before using it again.

[Ruth]

I would take a water sample to a LFS and have them test it to see where you are at. A refractor has been a good investment for me and they are not that much.

[DanG]

Second on the refractometer. I thought I was at 1.024 and was really at 1.028.

[deep6er]

Im kinda new at marine tanks but maybe i should know this. What is a refractometer?

[muck]

Im kinda new at marine tanks but maybe i should know this. What is a refractometer?

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/details/testkits.php?product_ID=t-cprefact

[deep6er]

OK cool i see what it is. I just have a cheap plastic one. I will pick up the good kind soon.
Thanks everyone!!

[reeferaddict]

How are you mixing your water? Most salt mixes come with directions - 1/2 cup of salt to a gallon of any fresh water will yield a salinity of around 31 ppt... right smack dab in the centre of the acceptable parameters. Don't ever put concentrated salt directly into the aquarium... only fully dissolved prepared water... the dissolving action can burn a fish's gills, and inverts won't tolerate it at all. I know this may be a simple basic thing, but I cannot believe how many people think it's OK to dissolve a cup of salt in a quart of water and dump it in, or worse shovel salt directly out of a bucket into an inhabited tank!

When I want to bump my salinity I typically just use salt water for a few days as my evaporation make up water instead of fresh... this makes it happen steadily and slowly so as to not stress anyone. If you wish to accelerate it a bit maybe just use hypersaline water at >40ppt as long as it's dripped... again, dissolving is all about ion exchange with positive and negative charges flying around everywhere and your creatures being bombarded and burned... once everything is dissolved it then exists as the delicate ionically balanced environment in which they live...

[StirCrazy]

Don't ever put concentrated salt directly into the aquarium... only fully dissolved prepared water... the dissolving action can burn a fish's gills, and inverts won't tolerate it at all. I know this may be a simple basic thing, but I cannot believe how many people think it's OK to dissolve a cup of salt in a quart of water and dump it in, or worse shovel salt directly out of a bucket into an inhabited tank!



now you tell me, I do it all the time. ad a cup to the sump and it mixes in over an hour.

Steve

[deep6er]

The way i have been doing it is by adding 1 cup of salt to 4 cups of warm water , let it desolve then adding it slowlly to the tank. And i figure i will keep doing this till the salinity is at 30ppt.
But i am also wondering if the temp has a role in the salinity level?

[Ruth]

Temperature does play a role in getting an accurate reading on your salinity. I know that when I open a new bag or bucket of salt I always do a full specturm of tests on the change water to see where I am at as far as ph, calcium, alk., mag., phosphates, etc. By just dissolving salt in warm water I don't know how you would control how much you are raising your salinity. If mine were low I would use salt water as make up water for evaporation but still want to know what the salinity is and keep testing my display to see where I am at.

[deep6er]

Well thanks for all the tips. Its always good to learn new things, so i am going to take what i learned today and try it out.

[Johnny Reefer]

Yes, temperature is a factor on your SG readings.
If you are using a basic hydrometer there is a conversion to apply.
I looked online for a conversion table but could not find anything, within my patience tolerance.
If you can gain access to the book "Natural Reef Aquariums" by John H. Tullock (Revised Ed. January 2001), there is a hydrometer readings conversion table, as it relates to temperature, on page 121.

I suppose the refractometer is doing this conversion for you, but then can the refractometer detect the temperature of only a few drops of water?

At any rate, try to get your hands on, and check out, that book.

Cheers,

[Johnny Reefer]

I suppose the refractometer is doing this conversion for you, but then can the refractometer detect the temperature of only a few drops of water?

More accurately, what I mean to say is...you'd think that the temperature of a few drops of water would change, dramatically, as they are removed from the aquarium and I wonder how a refractometer could possibly take that into account.

But then, I have never used a refractometer and am not sure how they are employed. Do you just dip a probe into the tank water itself?

Cheers,

[reeferaddict]

Refractometers are temperature compensated by their nature.... you put 3 drops of your aquarium water on the plate... wait 15 - 30 seconds... then look through they eye piece at a bright light... there you will see a scale of numbers where your salinity can be read... After comparing an AP and Coralife hydrometer to my Refractometer, I found the Coralife one to be out by <3ppt and the AP one to be out >1ppt... I STILL use these for daily visual checks as they are too easy to use... and just use the Refractometer for calibrations and precise readings.

Steve! I woulda thought YOU of all people would never do that! Right now I have an elegance that has been cranky for over a week now... why? Because I scraped my %$#@&&!! centre brace, and some salt creep broke off and snowed into the tank... so I AM speaking from experience on this one too... but just MY experience... I guess some people get away with some things... :mrgreen:

[reeferaddict]

Oh ya... one more for Steve...

"The aforementioned posts are strictly the opinion of the author and in no way are representative of broadly accepted or expert opinions on the subject matter. The author does not assume responsibility nor liability for improper use of said information as he may or may not have been on drugs at the time of writing"

PRACTICE SAFE SEX EVERYONE! :mrgreen:

[Johnny Reefer]

I STILL use these for daily visual checks as they are too easy to use... and just use the Refractometer for calibrations and precise readings.

So, a refractometer isn't as easy to use as a hydrometer is?:question:
(Can't be too difficult, is it?)
(I'm thinkin' of gettin' one.)

Cheers,

[reeferaddict]

That would just be an indication of my laziness.... While you can take a hydrometer, dip it and get an instant albeit somewhat inaccurate reading,... the refractometer requires removal from the case, dripping the water, reading, then cleaning off with RO/DI water before putting away... a process that all told takes 2 mintes instead of 10 seconds.... lol

[Johnny Reefer]

I think that with the huge :wink: task of rinsing my hydrometer, both before and after, and looking up and applying the correction, they both sound equally as labour intensive. :rolleyes:
For the sake of the accurate readings they (refractometers) give, I'm gonna get one.
Do you use a pipette for the water drops with yours? I suppose that would have to be rinsed too! :rolleyes:

Cheers,

[reeferaddict]

Oh ya! Ya gotta clean that too! What a chore I'm tellin' ya! I actually keep a gallon of pure water right beside the tanks just for rinsing various acoutrements necessary to the hobby....

[Johnny Reefer]

Oh ya! Ya gotta clean that too! What a chore I'm tellin' ya!
:rofl:

[reeferaddict]

I'll tell ya too... laziness also has its pitfalls... you have any idea how many HOURS I have spent automating this thing??? :mrgreen:

[StirCrazy]

Refractometers are temperature compensated by their nature....


Not all you can buy temp compensated and non temp compensated refractometers.


Steve! I woulda thought YOU of all people would never do that! Right now I have an elegance that has been cranky for over a week now... why? Because I scraped my %$#@&&!! centre brace, and some salt creep broke off and snowed into the tank... so I AM speaking from experience on this one too... but just MY experience... I guess some people get away with some things... :mrgreen:

how long have you had the elegance? they are cranky by nature are they not :mrgreen: I used to have the center brace and when I scraped it things got ****ed for a few minutes then were fine. I mostly will dissolve the amount of salt I need to add in 1 gal of water weather it be two or 3 cups. then I will slowly pour it into the beginning of my sump. at this point I have a flow rate of over 150X/hour flowing through my sump and only about 25% of that is to the tank directly. so it ends up being a gradual mix over about 2 or 3 hours I would guess if I did the math but I am to lazy today and in to much pain to make the calculations (waiting to find out if I have to go for surgery or not at this moment).

I have also dumped a couple cups directly into that chamber of my sump also with mo ill effects but I would not recommend this unless you are sure it is not going to be dumped to the main tank to fast and I would never recommend putting "to strong" of a mix directly into the tank to fast.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Oh ya... one more for Steve...

"The aforementioned posts are strictly the opinion of the author and in no way are representative of broadly accepted or expert opinions on the subject matter. The author does not assume responsibility nor liability for improper use of said information as he may or may not have been on drugs at the time of writing"

PRACTICE SAFE SEX EVERYONE! :mrgreen:

:mrgreen: don't make me laugh it hurts to much :eek:

Steve

[reeferaddict]

Good to see ya got the humour on that one Steve.... didn't want it to seem like I was busting your ba#@s... this is a great place for everyone to share their experiences...

Everybody remember.... we are all running separate CLOSED systems.... what may or may not work for one... may or may not work for someone else... but I don't care WHAT Steve says.... never add bleach! :mrgreen:

[martym]

here is a temp conversion
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/rhf/index.htm

[Johnny Reefer]

Of note in Holmes-Farley's article is that a swing arm type hydrometer doesn't require a temperature correction to be applied.

I stand corrected. Partially.

Cheers, :smile: ,