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Delphinus
08-31-2005, 05:08 PM
Does anyone have any experience with mounting chillers outside?

I'm curious what people have done for protecting the chiller unit itself (casing, etc.) and what challenges were there for plumbing the tank water to the outside and so on (particularly those in the prairie provinces, where presumably the plumbing has to be shutdown for the winter season and so on).

It can't be much different overall though, than household AC (i.e., making sure the unit is protected from the elements, and reasonably secure so that someone walking by can't walk away with it, and so on) and from a heat dissipation issue probably makes more sense than keeping the chiller in the same room as the tank itself.

christyf5
08-31-2005, 05:25 PM
I think I would be more apt to just vent the hot air outside rather than mount the chiller outside. I would also think this would be an easier thing to do. Sort of like a dryer vent idea. Besides, after paying that much for a chiller it ain't sittin outside where some yahoo could walk off with it (I live in a great neighborhood :razz: :rolleyes: )

golden69_ca
08-31-2005, 09:14 PM
will u need to run it all year or just in the summer . email me a pic and i can help u with it .

thanx aaron

Delphinus
08-31-2005, 09:22 PM
Don't have a chiller yet, just wondering about it and how to plan for it. I assume that a chiller's ability is related to how well it can shed heat itself. To have the unit outside is probably the easiest way to release that heat into the ambient air, much like how an A/C would do it. But I wonder if they need a special casing? I mean, you woudn't want rain and stuff to get on it. But then how does an A/C unit handle that?

I'm assuming you could probably get some honkin' L-brackets that attach to the foundation of the house, and somehow bolt the unit down to that.

Or is it better just to have the unit in the tank room, and just ventilate the unit really well?

mark
08-31-2005, 09:50 PM
Isn't a chiller basically the same as a fridge and can they be run outside safely below freezing? Back home the old man would always shut down the beer fridge in the carport over winter.

For my new place, have been thinking about running some tubing loops outside through the basement wall buried a few feet deep (ideally deeper). They would be hooked to the sump on a separate loop. Sort of a heat pump idea.

golden69_ca
08-31-2005, 10:44 PM
you can mount it out side but when you get under -5c you will have a lot of problems and the unit will more than likely shut down or crap out at about -10c. if you whant to run a unit out side i could build one but it would not be cheep . the best way is to build it to exhast out side via ductwork so you dont push the heat into the room becouse as the room warms up you will lose the cooling capasity of the chiller .
pm me tony if you want some help with the chiller .

thanx aaron

StirCrazy
09-01-2005, 12:29 AM
you can mount it out side but when you get under -5c you will have a lot of problems and the unit will more than likely shut down or crap out at about -10c.

thanx aaron

why do you say this? at any rate when it approaches zero it will most likely be shut down.. Tony if you have to mount it outsize you have to pick a good spot, ie. shady in the summer but protected in the winter. you will also need to put it in some type of enclosure that will let air flow freely but prevent rain or flood waters from getting in. I personally don't see a problem as you could insulate it a bit in the winter to help but all in all it is the same things as an air conditioner for your house that sites outside, but I will reserve that opinion until I see what Aaron is concerned about at lower temps.

. my one concern would be the water in the lines freezing so if you shut it down during the winter you will need to blow the heat exchange clear and lines clear so they don't get damaged.

another idea might be to build a second insulated cover for it with ventilation flaps that only open when it is running and then put a small light bulb in there to maintain the internal temp above zero.


the other option is to ventalate it outside. for this I would just build a unit that will seal onto the back of it and get one fo thoes inline fans to draw the air through it, this will also increase the preformance of the chiller as aposed to just sitting in the front room.

Steve

golden69_ca
09-01-2005, 12:44 AM
thats right im not a journeyman refrigeration and hvac teck . if any one needs help in this area i will help just pm me as for outher people who are "experts" of all thing and want my help i have a charge out rate .



thanx aaron

LostMind
09-01-2005, 03:16 AM
I've seen a bunch of threads on RC of people who put them outside. Some people put them in a rubbermaid container with some venting to allow the heat to dissappate yet protected the chiller from the elements...

Willow
09-01-2005, 03:34 AM
mine has a nice powder coated case with no electronics in it so you could just chuck it outside with little hassle i assume, just a little roof over it to keep the rain off would be good.

Nemo
09-01-2005, 09:00 AM
Tony, how about I give you the same advice that was given to me. I was going to spend the big bucks and buy a chiller this summer, but after a few discussions I bought an airconditioner instead.

AC is cheaper to buy, you get the benifit of a cool room, amd no extra pump for your tank.

I bought a 10,000 BTU unit from Home Depot for about $350.00 and it cools my entire down stairs area, versus over $1000.00 for a chiller and pump, and only my tank benifits

Just a thought

StirCrazy
09-01-2005, 12:43 PM
thats right im not a journeyman refrigeration and hvac teck . if any one needs help in this area i will help just pm me as for outher people who are "experts" of all thing and want my help i have a charge out rate .



thanx aaron

why you getting all ****y :rolleyes: , I simply asked why you think that???

Steve

mark
09-01-2005, 02:06 PM
Again not sure sure how fridges are similiar to chillers, but from the manual that came with our new fridge:

Note: It is recommended that you do not install the refrigerator near an oven, radiator or other heat source. Do not install in a location where the temperature will fall below 55F (13C).

Doesn't say why, but if you are installing the chiller outside, might be a idea to contact the manufacturer for clarification on suitable locations.

Delphinus
09-01-2005, 03:54 PM
Well, thanks all for the thoughts. Interesting.

Aaron, when the time comes closer to put something in place, I'll drop you a line. It won't be soon, the summer's over and it will be September maybe even October before I begin work on the basement, and there's usually no need for a chiller on the tank(s) in the winter over here. But don't worry I will remember your offer - thanks.

The reason that got me to asking this question is that it's just something I've been wondering about. If you put a chiller next to a tank that it's chilling, the net heat transfer in the room is zero. If you put the chiller somewhere else then there's a heat transfer away from the tank, and it seems to me that this is a good idea. A/C units work by pumping the heat right outside so that's what got me to wonder about it. Plus, I saw an AdvancedAquarist.com featured tank recently where the guy had the chiller outdoors (looked like a standard A/C type unit though, not a tank chiller -- may have been a custom job - I don't recall, I'll have to look for that article again and re-read it).

A room air conditioner would have been an awesome idea but the problem is I have no window or ventilation in the tank room (this is a basement tank room, concrete walls). I looked into getting a window installed so I could just use a small room A/C unit but I was looking at almost $1000 for the concrete coring and window installation, AND the only place it would fit is right under my deck, so it doesn't really work anyhow.

One of those portable room air conditioners might work but they're $800. At that price you might just consider a chiller anyhow.

I would prefer something that doesn't involve venting air using fans because after 8 years of listening to fan noise for my tanks, I'm simply tired of the constant howling/whining of fans. When I build this tank, I want to see it, and maybe the only noise I hear is a little gurgling of water. Might be a pipe dream but it's something of a goal for this next tank.

Anyhow I appreciate all the thoughts, thanks everyone.

snaggle
09-01-2005, 06:27 PM
I don’t see any thing wrong with putting the chiller outside. I would just put a shut off valve on either side of the chiller inside the house on one side have an air spigot that would let you hook up an air compressor on one side, and on the other side have a drain to let the water out. As long as you do it before freeze up you should be ok

Brad

KarlK
11-30-2005, 02:04 PM
The reason you can't run the chiller outside is that the lower temperatures cause the pressure in the high temperature part of the system to drop. This will not allow the system to maintain the proper pressure difference between the high and low temperature sides of the system to allow the expansion device to operate correctly.

I other words, as the temperature drops, the performance of your chiller will drop.

Chillers have certain design paramaters. These include the assumtion that you will be removing heat from 80-90 degree water and that it will be exhausting heat into a 70 to 90 degree room. When this engineered unit in now put outside when it is 55 degrees (or lower), it is now operating outside of it's design parameters and will no longer function effectively.

One could probably be modified with slightly different controls in order to have it operate reasonably well.

$0.02

Karl