ph drop

[robzilla]

hi, my tank's ph has dropped in the last few weeks. went from 8.2 to 7.8.
i need some help to understand what has caused this (is this normal?)
and what can i do to help correct the ph. currently ive picked up some
marine buffer from seachem to help raise the ph. ive only done one batch of marine buffer.
:question: thanks

[mr_alberta]

High CO2 levels in your house can cause a pH drop IIRC. Is your tank in a room where not much fresh air comes in?

[robzilla]

Hi CO2 levels in your house can cause a pH drop IIRC. Is your tank in a room where not much fresh air comes in?

yes, the room is downstairs with limited air movement.
would setting up a fan/circulation in the basement help?

[mr_alberta]

That may help. Another thing I've heard that people do is run the air intake from their skimmers outside so it sucks in fresh air.

[Chin_Lee]

Robzilla
1) test your alk reading first and post the result. i suspect your alk is low which in turn has little buffering ability. test alk level in 24 hour periods to determine how much is used up in 24 hours.
2) read this http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2004/chem.htm
to determine how much alk you need to raise it to achieve the level you want then how much to add per day thereafter
3) go to Superstore and buy a 2kg regular Arm&Hammer Baking soda for 5 bucks instead. much cheaper and works great to raise alk (hint hint don't buy the commercial Marine buffers)
4) follow up with your calcium and magnesium anytime after

hth
cwlee

[robzilla]

small problem, as i need to get some test kits.
what are the most needed test kits to start with:
alk
calcium
magnesium
what's the best brand?

thanks
rob

[Beverly]

Salifert is an excellent brand of test kit.

[Johnny Reefer]

Salifert is an excellent brand of test kit.

Totally!

[Chin_Lee]

small problem, as i need to get some test kits.
what are the most needed test kits to start with:
alk
calcium
magnesium
what's the best brand?

thanks
rob

rob
for water quality - Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate

For coral growth quality - alk, calcium, magnesium

Salifert is good (although i find their tests are not always as "simple" and subsequently more time consuming)

[reefandt]

i had the same problem before. colin at the ocean coral on Kingsway told me that the calcium level in my tank might be too low. i did a test, it was about 350. I guess calcium and ph are related.

[Beverly]

Here is some excellent reading for better understanding reef chemistry:

Aquarium System Volume Calculator:

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/volcalc.html

The Reef Chemistry Calculator:

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

What is Alkalinity?

http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2002/chemistry.htm

Calcium:

http://advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2002/chem.htm

Magnesium in Reef Aquaria:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

The Relationship Between Alkalinity and pH:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2002/chem.htm

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

High pH: Causes and Cures:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

Low pH: Causes and Cures:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

[Skimmerking]

ok who told bev about this thread...


:multi: :multi:

[Beverly]

ok who told bev about this thread...

Ah, shucks, I just thought enquiring minds would want to know :biggrin:

Definitely lots of reading and well worth it too. I've read those pages over and over and freaking over again until I was able to get even the slightest grasp on the complexities of what's going on chemically in a reef. I'm still pretty dumb when it comes to reef chemistry compared to many :razz:

[robzilla]

well after 3 days of using the buffer, the ph is back up.
how often should i be checked the ph?
i'll check the other components once i get the test kits in from ocean aquatics.

[Johnny Reefer]

[I'm still pretty dumb when it comes to reef chemistry compared to many :razz:

That makes two of us. :lol:
In High School I dropped out of Chemistry 11 after two days.
Wasn't high on the priority list at the time.
Now I'm older and my brain isn't as spongy. (Sounds like a Rickyism).
That's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it. :rolleyes:

Cheers,

[Samw]

For me, the time of day that I take PH readings make a big difference. My PH is 7.7 or 7.8 in the morning before lights on and 8.4-8.6 in the late afternoon during full lighting.

[Beverly]

well after 3 days of using the buffer, the ph is back up.
how often should i be checked the ph?

I use a pH probe and monitor that is always in one tank or another. Great investment, imo.

[Chin_Lee]

well after 3 days of using the buffer, the ph is back up.
how often should i be checked the ph?
i'll check the other components once i get the test kits in from ocean aquatics.
check daily and you will know how much alk your system uses in a 24 hour period. then just keep dosing the same amount every 24 hours to maintain the desired level.

example
day 1 at 1200 pm = 8 dkh
day 2 at 1200 pm = 7.5 dkh
day 3 at 1200 pm = 7 dkh
your system is losing .5 dkh/24 hours.
calculate how much you need to dose to raise your dkh by .5 and add that amount each day.

and don't forget to add the same amount of calcium too

[robzilla]

finally got in a kh/alk test kit.
assuming i followed the instructions correctly here's the results:
kh 9.0dkh
alk 3.2

do these readings seem correct? too high? too low?

[Johnny Reefer]

Those are fine, IMHO.

Cheers,

[reeferaddict]

That is pretty much a perfect level yep... the pretty much widely accepted range is 7 - 12 dKH... err to the higher side but not too much or you will get precipitation of carbonates and bicarbonates which will actually cause lower alk, and consequently pH... DO read the articles! While they are a lot to wrap your head around ... they will be absolutely invaluable to anyone hoping to have success in this hobby... I too refer to them all the time... (just come here and look for posts by Beverly, she must have posted them no fewer than a dozen times, which IMO is great because NONE of us can understand water chemistry enough!).

Calcium and alk ARE related, and both should be monitored extremely closely until consumption and replacement levels are established, and on a less frequent but regular basis thereafter... (including after adding anything like rock, clams, corals etc... i.e. anything with a calcifying skeleton...) Most importantly, don't come and see your pH at 7.8 and decide you must immediately raise it... everything done here must be done slowly and with patience... these problems do not occur overnight, and cannot therefore be corrected overnight without often negative consequences... the articles will tell what variety of products and/or chemicals will correct specific problems, and how much to correct at once.

As for test kits... IME buy ones that you will actually use... I bought a complicated set of kits and rarely tested ... then I bought cheap fast ones and I'm on top of this... (OK... before you all jump down my throat here - I actually have both kinds - and believe it or not the cheapies stack up... for example I use Aquarium Pharmeceutical Alk & Ca tests... Alk is accurate to +-1 dKH so if I'm at 10 I know I'm within the range - I have confirmed this with a Seachem kit - Ca I have an accuracy of +-20ppm and I shoot for about 420 knowing my range is 400 - 440, acceptable to anyone growing any kind of corals.)

As for the low circulation in the room I truly doubt this will have any real effect on pH ... how is your surface exchange though? Water circulation and surface turbulence is definitely necessary for proper gas exchange, but unless you have some kind of excess C02 effluent leaking into your room, the oxygen saturation levels of water can be acheived with any kind of air suitable for breathing.