Overdriving lights.

[StirCrazy]

Well I did a pre wire on my 03/actinic NO bulbs and ballast to check its operation, and against better judgment I decided to use my expensive bulbs for a over drive comparasen.. I am glad i did as the blues show the difference in intensity better.

first the data, I am using a GE Electronic
B340R120HP PC#80156 3 lamp rapid start ballast and 2 philips 03/actinic 36" bulbs.

the first picture is the two light beiong drivin normaly (this was just a functional test)
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/bothNO1xEa.jpg
the next 3 are the pics of the one bulb over driven and the other bulb normal so you get a side by side comparasen

far shot
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/01top2xbottom1x.jpg

a closeup
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/02top2xbottom1x.jpg

and a end view
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/03top2xbottom1x.jpg

and finaly the end cap arangement used to over drive compared to the normal one
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/endcapoverdriven.jpg

I only ran it for about 30 min and the over driven was a bit hoter than the other but it was hardly noticable.

Steve

[ 19 May 2002, 15:41: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[StirCrazy]

Ok I bought a new multimeter (my old one was a joke and wouldent do curent.) and I found a light meter for 30.00 it measures foot-candles but there should be a conversion to lumin somewhare I just have to find it. we tested a 96watt PC quad light (smart light) and it put out 1300 foot-candles at a distance of 12" on a ice cap lit 4X 110 watt bulbs the result was 750 to 800 foot-candles at a distance of 12" so it will be interesting to see what my over driving project does in both power and light output . this I will do tomorrow morning

Steve

[DJ88]

Wow.. looks good. we may have to get together on this thing I want to do Steve.. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[StirCrazy]

I found it 1 lumens/squar foot = 1 foot candle

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

10.76 lux = 1 footcandle

Pretty cool...

As a reference...my lighting is (OVRNO @ 80W X 2)

At the surface, 16000 to 20000 lux. (5" away)
At middle of tank, 7000 lux. (17" away)
At bottom of the tank. 4500 lux. (24" away)

And...the commonly accepted lighting for reef is 3000 lux for general purpose and 7000 lux for SPS.

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

cool thanks Victor, oh did I mention.. I love radio shack LOL, oh by the way.. how did you get the measurments for under water? is your meter water proof?
oh a other qustion comes up from reading the package on a bulb I have.. it is a 20 watt 2' T8 power glow. well the box says 1100 lumens, 80 lux, 18000K so from what I have seen on normal packages lumens is always higher than lux, so if 1 foot candle = 1 lumens how can 1 foot candle = 10.something Lux ?

Steve

[ 05 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Well. I sort of cheated...I assumed the water would block off 10% of the light and measured it in air.

if
1 Candlefoot = 1 lumen per foot^2.
1 lux = 1 lumen per meter ^2.

and
1 meter = 3.28 feet
1 meter^2 = 10.76 feet^2

So
1 Candlefoot = 10.76 lux.

QED

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

ok your making me get out a pen and paper LOL sorry it just doesent look right to me.

Never mind you were right.. sorry .. had to working it out.. I hate it when conversions don't look right hehe images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Steve

[ 05 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Very nice...glad it worked out for you !

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

Ok now that I am complete my testing for this balast and lights here are the results. First to mention the equipment I am using again 1, GE Electronic
B340R120HP PC#80156 3 lamp rapid start ballast and 1 philips 03/actinic 36" bulb.

to record this info I am using a new radioshack digital auto range multimeter, and a GE light meter.

first, the test setup looks like this
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/testSetup.jpg
I took initial reading and then again took readings after 25 minuits of the set up running and having a chance to settle out.
here is the first test runing the bulb at normal power.
the inital current was 0.330 amps (39.6 watts)and it climbed to 0.332, (39.84 watts)not a significant change so I only recorded the start curent, the ballast was cold after this test and the bulb was warm.
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/current1x.jpg
the light output remained constant at 13 foot candles @ 12" and 190 foot candles at the bulb surface
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/lightoutput1x.jpg

for the second set I used 2 sets of leads to the power side of the bulb.
the inital current was 0.460 amps (55.2 watts) and the final curent droped to 0.455 amps (54.6 watts), the balast was 84 degrees F and the bulb was warm (about the same as test 1).
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/current2x.jpg
the light output remained constant at 19 foot candles @ 12" and 320 foot candles at the bulb surface
http://members.home.shaw.ca/stircrazy/lightoutput2x.jpg

Steve

[ 19 May 2002, 15:46: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[StirCrazy]

for the 3x test I wired up the power endcap like this
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/wiringFor3xTest.jpg
The curent rose from ainital 0.524 amps (62.88 watts) to a final of 0.549 amps (65.88 watts), the ballast rose to a tempature of 89 degrees F, and the bulb was still only warm ( I could have held my hand on it all day)
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/current3x.jpg
the light output also increased over the 25 minuits from a start of 23 foot candles @ 12" and 400 foot candles at the bulb surface, to 25 foot candles @ 12" and 420 foot candles at the bulb surface.
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/lightoutput3x.jpg

ok now the best for last.. I took a overview picture for each test and I will put them in order of the tests one on top of each other so you can see the difference.
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/test1xoverview.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/test2xoverview.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/stircrazy/test3xoverview.jpg

well there is that test, I will be doing it on my 96 watt PC bulbs also to compare there out put and I am thinking I will get a 5900K daylight bulb and try it also (actinic light shows up as a lower output on normal light meters so that is why the numbers for the foot candles look low for a 30 watt bulb. I ment the nubers as a comparason factor not the actual out put of the bulb)

Steve

[ 19 May 2002, 15:47: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[Reefmaster]

victor
is 10% loss through the water column reaonable? what i remember from physics is an inverse exponential relationship with depth...just curius.

[StirCrazy]

do you know whare there are 2 400's running
Shane? I am not doing anything tomorrow I could go measure them..

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Reefmaster,

10% loss is due to particulate matter in the water and diffraction loss at the interface between water and air. The 1/distance relation is already taken account with the light meter (the measurements were done in air).

Steve,

Looks really good. I don't know how accurate your light meter is...but it seems that you can generate more light as you overdrive (lumens/watt or lux/watt). But...it sort of makes sense....

Have fun with your new lights images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Hmm...maybe I should get one of those meters.

- Victor.

[Acro]

I'm sitting here looking at these light threads about diy overdrives and can't help but wonder if you guys are at all concerned about burning down your house? Water and electricity is already a concurn now you start messing with it. Go ahead but I have a hard enough time going away on weekends and worry about stuff never mind playing around with electricity.Murphy's Law is alive and well in this hobby. I have spent plenty money in this hobby and made many diy projects and at the end of the day 9 times out of 10 ended up buying something professionally made with warranties and all that wasted diy money ends up in a rubbermaid box You end up spending more money tring to save money Just my thought Jamie

[StirCrazy]

hehe ya I thought about it for a second or two images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif , but seriously I was drawing just over 1/2 a amp through that ballast.. it is designed for almost 1 amp.. so I was in no danger of overloading the ballast. as for the light... the worst that would happen at that power is it would burn out. I could see if I was talking about hooking up 440v to it.. hmmm what do you think Victor? 440v 3 phase? images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

You mean 220V 3 phase ? I don't think they have 440V...they have 347V, 600V and 3KV...but I haven't heard of a 440V 3 phase. Must be a new electrical format on the island (just kidding !)

DIY...are we crazy ?

Well, I could buy several Icecaps...and I would not have any problems doing that. But I definitely would not have as much fun as I am having now images/smiles/icon_smile.gif As Steve said, we are really running 50% to 60% of the ballast's maximum output. Fulham (workhorse) makes ballasts that are specifically design to run in this fashion...I get 5 years warranty and save money (and overdrive at the same time).

To be honest, I am more comformable with running a reef with fluorescent tubes than with HID (MV, MH, HQI and etc). HID dissipates a large amount of heat (so much that some may require fans), draws tremendous amount of power (250W MH draw 3A each), and they are extremely dangerous if you splash water on them or have them fail due to fractures in protective quartz. HIDs weren't quite design to operate in enclosed spaces like a reefs. That's just my personal opinion images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Jamie, 9 times out of 10 ... I have seen your tank and your DIY stand/hood - it looks really good. How about that DIY second stage for your calcium reactor ? All those look pretty good DIY to me.

DIY is not for everybody....we just want to tell people it is possible to get a nice reef running for less.

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

hehe 440 3 phase is what our generators produce on the ship. from there we split it 440 and 220, then the 220 we split down for our 120.. some of the bigger electric motors on the ship have starting curents of 600 amps on 440 volt 3 phase images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Steve

[Acro]

enjoy your projects images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Oh...I didn't know that.... I am more familiar with the 120/240/347/600 stuff. I guess there are lots of other different ones too...thanks.

- Victor.

[Reefmaster]

steve our tank has dual 400 MH and a few 4' NO's. i'd be really interested in seeing the output. email me if you have a chance to check it out cuz i'm really curiuos how these suckers stack up against your guys black magic lighting projects here. shane

[StirCrazy]

Ok out of curosity I flashed up my 36" 96 watt PC's and measured the light only on them
my 10000K was putting out 410 foot candles @ 12"(4413 lux) and 5100 foot candles at the surface (54896 lux).

the 6500K was putting out 375 footcandles @ 12" (4036 lux)and 4600 at the surface (49514 lux).

with both bulbs running I took a measurment at 12" and I got 630 foot candle @ 12" or (6781 lux)

I am going to be taking my light meter out with me so when i stop by stores and such I willl try to get a reading off there lights.

Steve

[Reefmaster]

if you're out and about with your magic light reader i'd be interested in our numbers from two 400w MH. just a thought... shane

[DJ88]

mmmm.. 440 3 phase.. miss it.. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Watched my smart a$$ boss try and show us youngins how it is done and change a fuse(120v) on one part of an equipment rack without isolating BOTH power sources. The 440 threw him 8 feet images/smiles/icon_eek.gif images/smiles/icon_eek.gif. We figure all the grease and slime from not showering for a week saved him.

He also tried to re-write the laws of physics and electricity one day.. images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

moron.. He left all the fuse changing to us youngins after that. images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

We could take a light meter and wrap it with a clear water proof bag. What do you think of that ?

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

hehe then how much does the bag reduce the light. images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
ok I had the opertunity to test a VHO actinic bulb run by a ice cap 660 ballast today. at the bulb the output was 650 footcandles @ the surface on a fairly new 110 watt bulb, by comparason a 96 watt PC at the same place was almost 6000 footcandles @ the surface.

Steve

[ 07 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

We can measure the difference between with and without a bag in air. Future measurements with bag can be calibrated out.


BTW, were those URI Actinic VHOs ?


- Victor.

[ 07 December 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[StirCrazy]

true.. to simple actualy just compare them at the distancethat you will be using in the tank...

Steve

[ldzielak]

Can't wait to overdive my 2 NO lights on my Refugium. They are not giving me the growth I need. And this is much better than taking my nice PC box apart and using those lights.

So has anyone been thinking of doing a test to compensate for the water. Take an empty tank, no DSB and measure from the bottom glass with lights on the top of the tank. Yes you loose some from the bottom glass, but how much? Maybe this would be more representative, at minimum this give a worst case number. What do you all think?

Lee

[titus]

Hello All,

Interesting thread. Nice to see the work/results of us trying to get ever more factful on the equipment we purchase. I wonder when we could do the same on protein skimmers and calcium reactor. um......

Anyway. I do have one major concern. While all these numbers are possibly useful when comparing the same bulb driven by the same ballast with different overdrive level, I don't know how well the test data can be used to compare different bulbs with different ballast.

Just like measuring radio signal's energy, we need to have available a receiver with a wide enough band to capture all of the signal's energy. Best thing is to be able to hook up a spectrum analyzer and have the machine show us the power response and total power. However, even at a low 300nm wavelength for blue light, the frequency is at 1tHz. To my knowledge, no spectrum analyzer operate at that high of a frequency.

Unless we have access to a light spectrometer somehow, we still are a step behind from being truly factful.

Just a thought.

Titus

[StirCrazy]

Titus, that I have talked about by use of a PAR meter.. it measurs light waves from 350nm to 700 nm (photosynthic light range. which is the real importance in a reef) so with this you can compare any bulb to any ballast. if you look at the Post I made last night to Darren I have found instructions on making your own, and also a company in edmonton who sells then .. as I will be in edmonton over the christmas season I will check that out to see how much they are.

Steve

[titus]

Hello Steve,

Maybe you can post a price on the board to let us know how much it is when you are in Edmonton.

Are you going to check out the fellow reefers in Edmonton? I have no idea of what's the story over there but the LFS don't keep too much stock over there.

Titus

[StirCrazy]

hmm well I think Edmonton is going to be a whirl wind tour, I am leaving here on the 19th getting there on the 20th.. I have to be in a different town for the 22nd (my grammas) then back to leduc for christmas.. hmm maby I should just stay home LOL. but ya I was thinking of checking out a few fish stores while I was there.. any one know of good ones in Edmonton?

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Titus,

What would the spectrum of the lighting system tell us ? I thought what matters most is the intensity that a coral receives or lux.

Isn't PAR calibrated for green leafy plants...but not for corals ?

- Victor.

[titus]

Hello Steve,

There aren't many LFS in Edmonton. There is one in West Ed Mall but it's pretty lame. They are mostly into dog stuff. Then there is one very close to the old garrison (Griesebach, I call it greese ball lol) and they have the most saltwater fish. It's in a guy's basement but it's much bigger than J&L. And then there's this one called Aquarium Illusion (the best one I found) and make sure you check their custom tank photo catalogue. But even with these people, they have pretty basic system for salt water customers as well unfortunately.

Victor,

The spectrum analysis tells us a number of things. First we can tell if spectrum shifts occurs over time, or with overdrive, electronic vs tar ballast, etc. Second, we can tell what type of light the bulb is producing. This is good for running a correlation of spectrum response vs corals' health and build a good database. Third, it's a good way to integrate for power.

Titus

[StirCrazy]

the Algae in the corals use the same wave length as plants (and a bit lower) plants the usefull is about 420 to 680nm the PAR meter I am interested in is from 350nm to 700nm, but from what I have been reading, the PAR used by corals mostly is the 350 to 450 range, but that is only deep water coarls.. shallow water coarls will probably still use the full PAR range as they get full light at the shallow depths not filtered to the degree that most people simulate in there tanks. but it does look cooler images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif . So far everthing I read say PAR is the most important measurment of light on a reef and it is also a measurment that holds true no mater which bulb or ballast or how much power you are trying to put through the light.

Steve

[titus]

Hello Steve,

I know what you mean. But the PAR meter only tells you the total energy of all light within the 300 - 700nm range. It doesn't give any clue to the spectral shape/distribution of energy "within" this band.

It is important for corals and the most meaningful, as compared to simple lux measurement, due to the meter's sensitivity to the range of light that algae responds to.

But as we know, different corals require different spectral shapes. It is best if we can somehow qualitatively log down the correlation between coral growth vs type of light (ie spectral shape).

And I'd have to disagree with the constant spectral shape for different driving intensity part. Everything in this world is non-linear. I have a gut feeling that spectral shape changes as the bulb is subjected to different driving method/intensity.

Titus

[StirCrazy]

Yes I agree with you Titus on different power shifts the spectral band, but to my knolage (and I may be wrong)from 6 years of planted fresh tanks and everything ihave read in the last year on reef tanks (ya a year is how long I have been planning things so far, call me obsessive) but the spectrum only shows you the peeks in each light color so you can tell if you are getting a output in the 350 to 450nm range. now what you say about as the bulbs burn out the spectrum shifts but this gos to exactly what I was saying as it shifts it shift higher (fro a actinic as the coating that breaks down is what makes the lower wave lengths) so now instead of a large 350 to 450nm (PAR) it is reduces as the majority of the light has switched to a 400 to 700nm range. this is why the corals will not do as good as they are adapted to the lower end of the PAR range. but if you take your old bulbs the house plants would love them images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Also there is a difference between diferent corals and there requirments, deep watter coarls need the lower end of the par whare shallow water coarls will probably need the higher end of the par range, but take for example people that are running 10000K MH and that is it.. they have no Actinic addition but the PAR from the MH is so intence it supplies everything the need.

as for the linerarity I total agree.. but with one exception.. out put will be liner up to a point then it will go not linier (thins happens for lots of stuff in nature but while we are on this if the color changes when overdriving then in the same token it should change when underdriving so using VHO bulbs on IceCap might not be the corect spectrum the bulb was designed for either.. and when running them with NO bulbs you are over driving so the spectrum couls be changed again.. unless it is liner to a point then it starts to drift. so who knows.. I can get a PAR sensor for under 200.00 and a light meter for 30.00 but a spectrum analizer is big bucks so I can't aford that.. but I will talk toa few people who are in university and see if they have one and can rund a coupld tests for me.. who knows maby they do and will..

Steve

[titus]

Hello Steve,

Yeah it would be most interesting to see how the spectrum change as the bulbs are subjected to different driving means. So it'd be awesome if we can have the bulbs tested by someone.... somehow.

Titus

[DJ88]

Hey, Don't look at me. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif I have enough to do.. lol

kidding

It would be neat to see tho.. It seems we have opened a huge can o worms on this board with this lighting topic..

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Sounds cool...too bad I am too busy to help.

Just wanted to tell you guys....umm...I was readjusting my reflectors and I noticed something unusual...I am getting shimmers from my fluroescent tubes ! images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Not quite as dramatic as MH...put there is a shimmering effect. Oh my...what have I started now....

- Victor.

[canadawest]

I was thinking last night, and came up with a question.

I am planning on upgrading to 2x250W MH lamps sometime in the new year. I will be keeping my Icecap 660, but reducing the number of lamps from 4 to 2 to make room for the MH lamps.

With that in mind, would it be possible to overdrive 2x48" Actinic VHO lamps using all the leads from the Icecap 660?

That way I could reduce the number of lamps to make room for the MH, without reducing (as much) the amount of light from the remaining VHO lamps.

Ideas???

[DJ88]

Ok,

I asked a few questions abotu a spectum analyzer at BCIT and they have a few. I am going to go ask the the physics technicians if I can use one to make some measurements.

I'll keep ya posted..

[titus]

Hello Darren,

If there are anyone who knows about breaking light up for spectral analysis, it'll be the physics and astronomy people. I don't think the typical spectrum analyzer will do though. But the physicist may have something special.
Let us know what you find.

Titus

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

I think Titus is referring to a light spectrometer -- that's the one you want images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

VHO overdrive.................

Hmmm...I am not sure if you would get much benefit from that. The problem is that VHOs are already hot. Overdriving them further would make them hotter -- hence less efficient and more fragile (not to mention, not lasting as long). What were your plans with the "Super VHOs" and what type of MH (or MV) are you planning to get ?

- Victor.

[DJ88]

I was going to ask my physics lab instructor today but we had a test so he wasn't to receptive to answering questions..

I'll ask mor in the next day or so.. He said they have waht I wanted. I described what I am looking for.

Breaking down individual wavelengths and showing intensities of each peak etc.. Told hime it was for the visible spectum only. ~400 to 700

[Gordoe]

Would it not be the chemical composition of a lamp that makes up its spectrum?

The difference between a new lamps spectrum, and and old lamp is dramatic. We see this with the growth of algae when a lamp gets too old. The power does increase over the life of the lamp, but it's an increase in current. The variable is the lamp, more specifically what the electrical charge has done to the gases in the tube.

I don't forsee any change in the spectrum, only a change in amplitude.

just my humble theory,
Gord images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[StirCrazy]

Gord, there are several things going on here.. as a floresent gets old the color shifts as the gasses inside are being broken down to a cirtian degree.. also when you over drive it there is a chance the extra current will affect the gasses slightly different shifting the spectrum a tiny bit.

Steve

[canadawest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reefburnaby:
Hi,

VHO overdrive.................

Hmmm...I am not sure if you would get much benefit from that. The problem is that VHOs are already hot. Overdriving them further would make them hotter -- hence less efficient and more fragile (not to mention, not lasting as long). What were your plans with the "Super VHOs" and what type of MH (or MV) are you planning to get ?

- Victor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was just thinking that I would only be using 2 VHO Super-Actinics, but have an Icecap660 that is currently running 4 lamps. If I am only going to keep 2, why not overdrive them with the leads not being used? Just wondering, as it sounds much like the NO overdrive thing.

As for MH, I am probably going to go with dual 250W MH using Iwasaki 6500K lamps. I hear they have one of the highest PAR output and good overall spectrum (comparable to the sun). I'll supplement with two of my existing 48" VHO Super-Actinics.

Figure that will allow me to keep more SPS corals, as well as improve the health of my existing inhabitants. A jump from 440W to 720W and a much different (better) intensity light. I'll also be able to then utilize a dusk/dawn effect by staggering the photo-period of the MH with the actinics.

(And gain that cool shimmering effect!)

[StirCrazy]

Andrew, are you wondering if you can get close to the rated output by doing this on your VHO's sence they are a little under powered now? hmm that would be interesting to see how maby watts you would get by doing that. if you have a multi meter measure it and let me know.. I am betting it will be about 230ish watts images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Shimmer effect in MH...what's that ? (just kidding)

Any who...you want a MV setup for the Iwasaki (makes Iwasaki bluer, they are design to run off of a MV and MV are cheaper).

Super VHO...you can be the pioneer and try it out images/smiles/icon_smile.gif Get some old VHOs from reefers and give it whirl. OR...we can get Steve to try it out...Steve ?

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

hehe if I had a ice cap I would..I think I have a little radiation burn on the left side of my face from my last exparament still images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif but now what were you sayign about cheeper MH? I would be interested in that.. how much would it be to get a one bulb 175 or 250 watt set up going?

Steve

[ 11 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Depends how DIY you want to get...but $200 to $300 is the price range for a 250W Iwasaki single fixture. $100 for the lamp...so the fixture can range between $100 to $200. MV are $10 to $30 cheaper than MH.

- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

and do they look better on a MV ballast than they would on a MH ballast? all I would be looking for is a bulb , ballast and socket.. I woulf do all the wiring myself

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Iwasaki 250w used by reefers are known as MV conversion lamps. They are MH lamps, but they are design to operate on a MV fixture. MV are cheaper because they don't need a capacitor to start.
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/aquarium/public_html/DIY_MH.html

Iwasaki is more blue when MV ballast is used.

- Victor.

[canadawest]

Excellent link Victor! That is exactly what I need. Looks like I'll be working on that project in the new year sometime.

Is it possible to get MV ballasts from Albrite or similar local supplier?

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

Yupe. The part numbers are in the link. Note that some ballasts are more efficient than others (for example, one ballast could require ~5A to run a 250W lamp, while another one would require 3A).

- Victor.

[reefburnaby]

Steve,

Ummm...do you think you can do some of your PC measurements with a 3 feet distance from the lamp. Andy, from Icecap, did some measurements @ 3 feet.

From Andy :


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
From IceCap:
The readings are in LUX.

Latest installment.
1)Two MagneTek Universal 446L electronic ballasts (2 lamps per ballast).
Wattage used by lamps and ballast = 173
Light meter reading from three feet away = 182
L/W = 1.052
2)One Model 660 electronic ballast.
Wattage used by lamps and ballast = 269
Light meter reading from three feet away = 333
L/W = 1.238
or 83% more light, 17% more lumens per watt.

All tests this time were on brand new G.E. AquaRay Fresh & Saltwater 4-foot, NO T-12 lamps. I ran the Conventional ballasts 1st just in case the break-in caused them to drop off output quickly.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
- Victor.

[StirCrazy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reefburnaby:
Hi,

Iwasaki 250w used by reefers are known as MV conversion lamps. They are MH lamps, but they are design to operate on a MV fixture. MV are cheaper because they don't need a capacitor to start.
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/aquarium/public_html/DIY_MH.html

Iwasaki is more blue when MV ballast is used.

- Victor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok I just got back from Albrite and they have a Iwasaki for me but there is no R designation like they mention in that article and they have no listing for another bulb, and now that I look at the pictures the bulb they have is not the "R" that we need. also they tell me it wont run on a MV ballast is this true or do they just think this.. they have no listing for the advance balast mentioned in the article also. anyone have anyother ideas whare to look?

Steve

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Hi,
http://www.eyelighting.com/mhconversioncleanace.html

R version has the UV shield. I believe there is an Iwasaki distributor in BC. So, you can contact them to make sure that they have it. Then call Albrite to call them to get that bulb....I don't think the distributor can sell directly to you (but you can try). Or...you can buy a UV shield.

As for your ballast, I'll get back to you on that one...I'll find you a more common ballast (the one they recommend works with 4 different line voltages...which we don't need and they tend to be rare). Say...what does Albrite say that they recommend for a MV ballast ?
-------

opps...type R is not the UV shield version. Its the version with a resistor in the bulb. I'll try to find out what's the story, but supposedly this is a newer bulb. The old ones don't have the R designation.

- Victor.

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[StirCrazy]

they said that you have to use a MH balast.. that a MH bulb will run in a MH balast only.. but I was on the Iwaska page and they even say there NOT to use a MH ballast... so I will have to not tell them what I want .. so the only difference between the two bulbs is a UV shield? do we need that? I found a better drawing of the two different bulbs.. looks like a lot of difference besides a uv shield.. the "R" one has a carbon resistor and the other doesent..
http://www.carlosreef.com/iwasaki_comparison.htm

hey I found a company in BC that is a distrubitor for thease bulbs..
Standard Products Inc.
103A-81 Golden Drive
Coquitlam, BC V3K 6R2
CANADA
Phone: 604-945-4550
Fax: 604-945-9019

mabe some one over there can call them or stop buy and get the real info on thease bulbs and a price.. and what the diff is between the r and the non-r besids the carbon resistor.

Steve

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Steve,
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35608&highlight=iwasaki+resistor

That should explain it images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Yah...just tell them you want a Metal Vapour ballast and capacitor (if required for that ballast). Iwasaki is a MV conversion lamp -- a MH lamp design to run in a MV ballast.

- Victor.

[ldzielak]

What would happen if you use a standard ballast for a 48" on a 24" would this over drive the lights too? Or is there something I'm missing?

Lee

[StirCrazy]

If you mean doinging what I did but using a balast made to run 4 foot tubes and running 4 foot tubes ya it will be ther same idea..

Steve

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

I am assuming the 1.5" diameter tubes right ?

The problem is that 40W and 20W usually uses approximately 430mA of lamp current -- that is the current flowing through the fluorescent tube. In order to overdrive either lamp, you would need to bump up the lamp current -- that is why we attach multiple ballasts in parallel. When we attach the ballasts in parallel, we are driving more current in to the lamp. So the main different between the 40W and 20W tube is the voltage across the tube -- the 40W has double the voltage.

What I am trying to say is that you will need the same amount of equipment to overdrive a 40W as you would a 20W.

- Victor.

[ldzielak]

I get the parallel part this makes more sense, but is the operating voltage different for different length bulbs? I have found some ballast that say 18"-24" and other that say 36"-48"

Was thinking if I got a ballast for a 48" x 1.5" and only installed a 24"x1.5" if this would explode, or be in overdrive.

I think it would be best to get the right ballast and put the outputs together. Just haven't found ballasts up here that handle more than 2 bulbs. Will try HD in Nanaimo on Friday.

Lee

[reefburnaby]

Hi,

The 18" to 24" thing...I think that is true for electromagnetic ballast. Since the operating voltage and current for those lamps are approximately the same (within 15%), the 18" will be overdriven slightly and 24" is underdriven slightly -- but the same ballast is used for both.

As for lamps exploding...unlikely. The worst it will do is burn out like a light bulb or not start at all.

If you want to overdrive a 20W, you can buy a F32T8 ballast and drive 4 outputs in to one lamp (or even two in series may be possible)....that should overdrive it by 2x.

- Victor.