Input needed.... read this......

[DJ88]

ok, here is the scoop. I need to know what everyone would prefer in a tank controller system.. within reason of course. I am not gonna make something to clean the glass for you, you lazy twits..

I am looking at designing a controller for my tank and if there is interest will build a few more.

As it stands now this is what I have planned so far;

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>- Temperature controller. Set up so that it heats and COOLS the tank. A small plate will be secured to the glass somewhere which will do both. A temp probe or multiple probes will be used to run this part of the system. This will take the cost up a fair bit but will negate the need for heaters(which break) and chillers(to a degree), which for the most part we don't use here on the lower mainland.

<LI>- up to four powerhead controller. Completely randomizes flow in the tank. As well will work in conjunction with the multiple temp probes in the tank. If the water temp is highly varied within the tnak due to lack of flow powerheads will be turned on to mix the water and keep the temp constant. PH's will turn on and off for random durations completely independantly.

<LI>- DC cooling fan controller. Working in conjunction with the temp controller to keep water temp ideal.

<LI>- Temp gets too high MH's turned off, Even higher, VHO, PC's or NO's turned off.

<LI>- Alarms for out of range temp problems. Audible and visual. ie extreme temps. say 94 deg F.

[/list]I can build this as it stands now. Is there anything else you would be interested in? Or would like to have? Once again.. WITHIN REASON! images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[reefburnaby]

Hello,

Lighting control based on time of day (i.e. dawn and dusk). If you really kean...simulate seasons. If you have an Icecap, you can program the Icecap to dim gradually.

Flood alarm - shutdown main sump pump when overflow dies.

Temperature sensing...did you know that you can get an IC to do that ? Even a resistor will do (special Radio Shack resistor).

PH and Temperature logging and displaying average/min/max. Logging to EEPROM and display it over a period images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Power disruption safe (don't want your controller to be in a dead state, when the power returns).

Remote monitoring/control with webcam via X10/Serial/10Base-T interface (or WWW). WWW user can control the position of the camera....okay maybe that's a little bit hard images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

.....Well...what do you say ? Say...what are you going to use to implement this ?

- Victor

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[smokinreefer]

i think youve covered what the average hobbyist needs, lighting control, heater control and powerhead control. i would definitely be interested in one of these. keep us updated.

[DJ88]

Victor.. the resistor is called a thermistor.. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I shall create a list of these ideas.. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif tho some are a bit beyond my capabilities. I do have a whole school of engineers to help me do this if need be.. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif So who knows.. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I'll keep you posted..

I am designing all of this right now.. the circuitry that is.. Hoping to use PIC's or PLC's for the power stuff.. and a PIC for the power heads as well. depends on what is easier to work with and more cost efficient..

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[DJ88]

Well my main design is for the heat control.. The powerhead stuff is an added bonus.. I am too cheap to buy a better controller than my power bar.. lol..

The temp controller is easy to make.. I'll keep you posted.. wont be ready for a month or more tho..

as well this will be a heater and do chilling if needed.. And is NOT submerged in the tank. All in the one unit. Well there will be the main unit for circuitry and then a panel you attach to the glass somewhere.. not sure of the width yet..

[Troy F]

Darren, how will it provide cooling?

[Sam Samy]

Darren,

Count me in for one, as long as I can afford it.

[DJ88]

Troy.. It basically works as a heater but through the glass. It also does the reverse and cools. Hard to explain.. umm..

It is two electric plates mounted side by side.. when electricity passes through it in one direction it produces heat. When the current is reversed it cools. I am going to use this for heating and cooling the tank.

In essence it pulls the heat from the tank and releases it to the air. And does the reverse for heating. Voila a heater n chiller in one.. images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif I am actually suprised I have never seen one or heard of anyone using one like this.. Great application.

I was thinking about making these and patenting them(the controller) but heck.. I'll share.. Too much work right now to make it quietly.. lol

It is called a Peltier device. It is a Thermoelectric cooler/heater module. A good example of one of these is those car food coolers/heaters you can get from Canadian Tire.

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[StirCrazy]

Hi Darren, hey just out of curosity what did you do when you were in the military? I am a stoker.. anyways for the heating / cooling were you thinking of using a peltia type heat sink? I just got one of them plug in coolers for a poresent and that is what they have.. run the power one direction the fins get cold.. the other they get hot.. I think the temp controler is a good idea.. but how about some sort of temp reading display? maby a led out of a old computer to display the numbers?

Steve

[DJ88]

Hey Steve,

NET(A) was my trade. What ships? Gatineau, Ville de Quebec, Annapolis, Calgary and Regina.

You got it.. By reversing the current flow(very low current drawn) you reverse how the transistor works inside. In one direction it pulls heat from the contacted surface, reverse it it puts heat in.

As well I am looking into putting a LCD display on it. showing temp etc.

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[Bryan]

Excellent, do you plan on posting a schematic.

For ideas on the wasvemaker, you may want to have a look at http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/diy/wavemaker.htm

It is NOT based on the usual 555 circuitry most wavemakers rely on. This design allows dead time between switching powerheads.

-=Bryan=-

[Reefmaster]

hey guys. the first thought i have is how well the glass, especially bigger tanks, will do with the differential expansion/contraction associated with heating or cooling with this sort of system. i wonder if 1. how efficient it would be, 2. if you could crack the glass with it.

as for controllers, i have been searching for people who know lots about data aquasition systems using a pc and interface. they are available out of the states, but very pricey. i read about a guy who wrote the code and used a 486 for the controller through rs232. i've looked at x10 but it seems a bit clunky to me. i'm more interested in rj45 through plc to completely automate the system, everything down to the r.o. coming on to fill the mixing bin, solenoids for dumping waste water and then pumping fresh mixed water into the system. that on top of lights, pumps, temp control including shutting off lamps in overheat, turning on fans, chiller, etc. anyone with this sort of idea in mind as well would kick ass. otherwise i'll keep up the search. shane

[DJ88]

Bryan,

Neat link.. I haven't drwan up the schematics yet. Still figuring it out as there are so many different parts/areas with the controller I am hoping to build.. Working on it tho..

Reefmaster,

I was wondering about that as well but was thinking that with a good heat sink compound and that the glass will be in contact with teh water on the other side the main worry of the glass cracking is during the initial turn on or heating. Once it is keepng the water temp set it should be fine. But that is what I have figured out. due to the fact that the glass is in immediate contact with the peltier device and the water it shouldn't affect eh efficiency too much.. and as it stands now I don't plan on using this on any large tanks. after all my tank is a 33. For larger uses a larger peltier device is needed.. Mod II.. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[reefburnaby]

Hello Darren,

Thanks...

If you need any help, you can give me a call.

Incidently, it is possible to do it on one PIC. Something like a PIC 16F784 should do. BTW, I am building one as we speak.... images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

- Victor.

[ 08 November 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[SuperFudge]

Ill be your first customer Darren!


Marc.

[Troy F]

Darren, I like the plan. I'd like something a little more simple. A temp controller that turned the heater off and fans on would be perfect. The lighting would be an added bonus. I'm looking at getting the Ranco as you know. I still haven't called my neighbour yet. Talk to you soon.

[StirCrazy]

Darren, I have seen peltier's used directly in water (water coolers for computers) could the peltier maby be placed in the tank/sump as a heater replacement? This would elimanate the concerns of cracking the glass and also make it much more eficient as glass does have a small insalation value.

Steve

[titus]

Memorandum

10001-1 (Administrator)

9 Nov 01

Darren

<u>Aquarist Tank Controller</u>

1) Great idea! I'm especially keen on the peltier idea. However, I've never seen one that says it can be submerged (in saltwater) though.

2) If you can, let's route the PCB on the computer and send the design to a fab house. This way, you can pretty much mass produce it and the rest of us can solder on the components ourself.

3) If it is going to involve a PIC (like Victor suggested), or any kind of microcontroller, we can post the routines up here for people to modify/download/etc.

4) I have a friend who supplies robotic parts (ie BASIC stamp, LCDs, etc). Let me know once you finalized your parts/ideas.

T.T.H. Cheung
Administrator
Canreef Aquatics Ltd.

[canadawest]

I would be concerned with stray voltage or even electric shock when one puts metal plates with electricity flowing through them into salt water.

Don't think the fish would be too happy about the buzz either.

And how big would these peltier plate be? Even on a 33gal tank they would have to produce quite a bit of heat to dissapate throughout the entire tank. I suspect this project would be not applicable to my 100gal tank?

Otherwise I also am fond of the idea and would be interested in a finished product.

[StirCrazy]

Hey Darren, ok I did some more checking into it and to make it work thee would have to be two peltier one in the water sending another medium to the other (which is outside the tank) althought this would be fairly simple to do in a sump or something.
The idea I had was using only one plate though.. if you use a baffle in the sump and place it befor a spill over so the water is always in contact with one side of the peltier it would work good. but I have found out that almost all peltier's use copper on one of there sides.. so guess any contact is out unless you can seal it with a conductive material.. if you are having a hard time seeing what I am talking about maby this pic I drew up will help.. no flames on the art work please images/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://members.home.net/s.l.s/peltier.jpg
the Peltier is red and the water level is blue..

but if you want to see more ideas and stuff for them you can check out www.overclockers.com (http://www.overclockers.com) and other sites like that..

Steve

[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

[reefburnaby]

Hello Darren,

I wouldn't worry about at this time. Just concentrate on your schoolwork...its more important images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

- Victor.

[DJ88]

Steve,

It won't be submerged. Part of the reason for chosing this is to use its capabilities with cooling as well as heating. Plus submering it would require some form of encapsulation to ensure no corrosion happens. I dont feel like getting this creative.

Just re-read your post.. I am assuming part of it was touching the water and part in the air right? Or else in a separate loop of water used for circulation.. Can you describe it more?? Curious now....

Shane,

With the device attached to the glass, the water on the other side of the glass will act as a massive heat sink. Ensuring that for the most part the heat energy is transferred through the glass. Some heating will happen but not to a sufficient degree to cause the glass to break. To ensure this doesn't happen as well, a proportional controller will be used to ensure that there isn't sudden treansferrance of heat in the plate touching the glass. To me the glass breaking isn't a problem unless the sump is run dry(which with baffles one side will be always full) or there are drastic changes made to the heating portion of the device.

Andrew,

The plate doesn't produce heat per say.. It moves heat in one direction or another. With current flowing in one direction it pulls heat from right to left(to give it a direction for you to visualize), reverse the current flow and the heat is moved from left to right.

This is another reason it won't be submerged. It won't have a differential in temperatures to move heat from one area to the other.

Titus n Victor,

I wont be getting much doen with it this weekend. Calculus n Physics midterms this week. Mind will be elsewhere..

I'll keep you posted tho..

[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[Silverfish]

Darren, sounds pretty cool! I might be interested if it is not too cost prohibitive. Have to say the idea of less work on the tank sounds very nice and the alarm is a great idea as well. btw you could make your millions after you hook up all us canreef folks and patent it! images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif