Do you know about the free ananomies?

[HimSelf]

I got a few Ananomies from the local ocean and slowly raised the temp in the tank and now moved then over to the large tank and they are doing great. Very colorful :lol:

[Aquattro]

Unfortunately their metabolism is designed for cold water, and they won't last long term in a warm tank. I'm also not real sure you're allowed to harvest them from the wild. A really good thing might be to put them back where you got them and hope they recover. JMO.

[Funky_Fish14]

I agree with Brad.

Chris

[muck]

Please dont put them back as who knows what kind of disease or whatnot it could have picked up from your tank. You don't want to introduce some parasite or what have you into local waters. Putting them back now is not an option. :frown:

[Aquattro]

Putting them back now is not an option. :frown:

sigh, I suppose you're right.

[danny zubot]

What if they do survive? Do you have any pics?

Can't they be re-acclimated and maybe given a fresh water dip or something so that they can be put back? Just curious.

[muck]

Can't they be re-acclimated and maybe given a fresh water dip or something so that they can be put back? Just curious.
What if something does survive and flourish in the local waters..?
You could have a scenario similar to the rabbit in australia.. :eek:
Safer to keep them, hope they will survive in your tank, and not take anymore from the local waters when the others do perish.

[danny zubot]

I wonder if thats what happened to the urchins of the Caribean. They all died about 20 years ago, it happened so fast that they never had the chance to figure out why. The reefs are all dying as a result.

[Scavenger]

I agree that putting them back into their natural enviroment could be a very bad idea. You could introduce a nasty into the area and cause alot of trouble.

However, if you were to set up a cold water tank (or even a cool water tank if you don't have chiller) for your cold water species, that might be the best option for you and your new pets.

[adidas]

Please dont put them back as who knows what kind of disease or whatnot it could have picked up from your tank. You don't want to introduce some parasite or what have you into local waters. Putting them back now is not an option. :frown:

i'm pretty sure whatever he can introduce, will not to do any harm to the ocean..

[muck]

Please dont put them back as who knows what kind of disease or whatnot it could have picked up from your tank. You don't want to introduce some parasite or what have you into local waters. Putting them back now is not an option. :frown:

i'm pretty sure whatever he can introduce, will not to do any harm to the ocean..

Its thinking like that that helps cause damage to our ecosystems.. :frown:

[danny zubot]

i'm pretty sure whatever he can introduce, will not to do any harm to the ocean..

You'd be surprised at what can happen when one creature dies off. A cascading effect can occure that causes multiple issues. Like I said before, when the urchins of the Caribean all died suddenly (unknown reason) the reefs ALL started to die. This is because the urchins weren't there to clean off the macro algea and create optimal growing conditions for SPS and LPS corals. In turn, all of the organizms that require these types of corals for their survival died off too, and so on. Only recently have major breeding opperations have begun to try and re-propigate the urchin populations, and on test reefs they have already noticed increased coral growth where urchins have returned. At a mear cost of millions to the American tax payers.

So you see, any small change in Earths delicate ecosystems effects us all.

Cheers!

[adidas]

just don't think anything that could be in our tanks is an issue... i'm more concerned with ships spewing their exhaust,oil... what about sewage etc. etc.

[adidas]

Please dont put them back as who knows what kind of disease or whatnot it could have picked up from your tank. You don't want to introduce some parasite or what have you into local waters. Putting them back now is not an option. :frown:

i'm pretty sure whatever he can introduce, will not to do any harm to the ocean..

Its thinking like that that helps cause damage to our ecosystems.. :frown:

lol we are talking one anemone, getting put back into trillions of gallons of water...... i'm pretty sure there is enough dilution going on....

ever swim in the ocean??

[HimSelf]

Wow never thought 3 ananos from the local waters can cause the sea to die :eek: Well I had them in my big tank for 9 month now and all they do is eat, split, and keep on growing. My tank temp is at 75F and looks like they are loving the warm temp. The local Amanos can be found along the west cost of North America so that mean they also live in the warm waters of CA. That is why I started this test and it just shows that they can live in both warm and cold waters. Also if you walk down to the beach you can see that when the tie goes out these ananos can site with out water and under hot sun for hours and still be alive :eek: They are very hardy!!

I will try to post some pics after the pink one finsh spliting.

[muck]

Please dont put them back as who knows what kind of disease or whatnot it could have picked up from your tank. You don't want to introduce some parasite or what have you into local waters. Putting them back now is not an option. :frown:

i'm pretty sure whatever he can introduce, will not to do any harm to the ocean..

Its thinking like that that helps cause damage to our ecosystems.. :frown:

lol we are talking one anemone, getting put back into trillions of gallons of water...... i'm pretty sure there is enough dilution going on....

ever swim in the ocean??

Ive been in the ocean numerous times. But my point is...
If a non-native species of parasite (or anything really for that matter) gets into the local waters and starts to flourish and outcompetes the native species for food, or even feasting on the native species. Pretty soon you are left with none of the original species. There is a great potential for disaster when you think like that. Oh and btw parasites do not dilute in water.. :rolleyes:

[Johnny Reefer]

I gotta agree with Muck on this. A couple of examples I can think of are the Zebra Mussel on the Great Lakes and, now don't quote me on this, but I believe there has recently been some debate here on the West Coast, lately, about farmed Atlantic Salmon and sea lice associated with that fish and that the lice is perceived to be encroaching on wild indigenous salmon stocks.

I vote to not return the anemones to the ocean. Sure, the chances of any contamination are probably remote, but unless the person is a marine biologist that knows what they are doing, why take the chance? Best to leave well enough alone, IMHO. Oh ya, and not take anymore unless legally allowed.

Cheers,

[danny zubot]

I had no idea that you've had them for 9 months already. They are hardy indead. I guess they must be used to temperature fluctuations and what not. Tell us more about the tank they are in; size, flow, ph, other tankmates etc. And yes, pics would be awsome.

[Delphinus]

There's nothing saying that a person can't have a successful cool or cold water SW tank going, if given the proper care and attention...

However, if you think hobbyists cannot damage the natural environment, read on.

Caulerpa taxifolia has wreaked havoc by becoming endemic in several areas in which it is non-native. Guess how it got into those areas? Look no further than fellow hobbyists carelessly disposing of cuttings. Seems we are far from innocent in this hobby. Several jurisdictions ban the traffic of this species altogether due to the irresponsible methods of disposal in the past.

http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/seagrant/cautax2.html
http://www.ridnis.ucdavis.edu/Caulerpataxifolia.html
http://www.tijuanaestuary.com/exotics.asp
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/southeast/hottopics/caulerpa/caulerpamain.htm
http://www.projectpacific.org/caulerpa_taxifolia.html
http://ozreef.org/content/view/94/2/

Interesting quote from this last site:
Within the state of New South Wales, it was listed as a noxious marine vegetation in October 2000 and cannot be bought, sold or traded with fines of up to $11,000 for breaking these rules. It was allowable to keep it within a fully contained aquarium until December 2004, but it has now been upgraded to a prohibited species.

Can you imagine? Wow, eh? :eek:

[Xtasia]

I assume Amanos/Ananos are Anemones? or are we talking about Amano Shrimp?

Enlighten me please. This is a new critter and I can't seem to wrap my head about what it looks like.

[adidas]

Oh and btw parasites do not dilute in water.. :rolleyes:

No, really? duhhhh.

[Invigor]

lol we are talking one anemone, getting put back into trillions of gallons of water...... i'm pretty sure there is enough dilution going on....


It only takes 1 cell infected with the HIV virus to kill you. How many millions of cells are in your body?

edit: sorry, I see you've been bashed about that already, heh. didn't see the "page 2" part when I was replying.

[adidas]

lol we are talking one anemone, getting put back into trillions of gallons of water...... i'm pretty sure there is enough dilution going on....


It only takes 1 cell infected with the HIV virus to kill you. How many millions of cells are in your body?

edit: sorry, I see you've been bashed about that already, heh. didn't see the "page 2" part when I was replying.

i actually wasnt thinking along the lines of parasites when i typed the dilution thing. i still think it would take a hell of alot more then one parasite on an anemone to do have any serious effects.

might as well just agree to disagree on this matter.

[HimSelf]

Ok every body looks like there are people here that are mad at me taking the local wild life out of the water and then there are some that think is ok. I'm not saying what I did was right but at the same time don't you think we are all guilty of taking these little life out of their homes and put them in some where they don't belong just to satisfy our wants?

What is the difference of me taking a life from my local water compaired to some third world under paid person that is working in dangers enviorment using drugs or nets to catch these little lifes and then sending them on a 24-48hr flight where more then 30% will die then end up at our local fish store? The way I look at it is at least I only have to transport 5 min instead of 24-48hr and I did my home work and took a calculative risk compaired to some people that just walks in to a store and buys corls or fish when they don't have the right setup.

Have you looked in to the local fish store's tank the day after they recived a new shippment? Why don't you try to count the dead fish?

There is no way any one can justfy that they are not leaving an eco foot print with this hubby. So don't try to sound like you care. If you realy do then take down your tank.

[HimSelf]

Hi danny zubot here is a little info on the setup:

I started the Anamos in a 10gal with a ph of 7.9 since my local sea water was at this level. I transported 10gal of the local sea water with the 10gal RO water bottles. This way there won't be any stress on the Ananos.

Rased the temp with in 3 month from 15c to 25c and also increased the ph with in this time as well. Water change was done once every 3 weeks. The filer system was the Eclips hood (filter with bio wheel) so there was not very high flow of water. Lighting was a 10 watt blue light from Walmart and it did very well. One thing about these ananos is that they don't like strong light so they will move in to shad area's if you have strong light.

I feed them clames, fish, squid and shirmp. They seems to eat every thing and if they don't like it they will just spit it out. I have one pink tiped two green with red tip. The pink tiped started about 1inch fully opened and now it has grown to 3inch and split twice. The green colored ones also started around 1inch and now is about 2inch. The green ones didn't grow too much but they started to have white round tips all around the out side wich is very pertty. The green ones split about twice now I think.

So now they are in my temp tank since I'm moving. It's a 20gal reef. There is a clown, dorf yellow angle, cleanner shirp, some hermit crabs and sails and a red star fish. They all get alone. Some times the yellow angle will nib at the ananos but that's realy all.

I just added a new pice of rock in the tank and it is blocking the light from one of the green and red tiped ananos and I have noticed the green color is fadding. I guess there is not enough light but the anano is not moving so I guess he is still liking the spot.

Any more question? Let me know.

[digitalsteve]

pics!!!

[albert_dao]

Obviously, the anemones are not going back into the sea. Chill.

[rickjames]

One point that was missed here is whether it is legal to take anemones off the beach. All marine life is protected by the department of fisheries and oceans so I would check the regulations before picking one of the beach, or dubbing them free anemones.

At the very least you probably need a salt water fishing license to take one.

You missed one point regarding your argument vs. local wildlife/tropical wildlife. The majority of us try to mimic our livestocks natural location to the best of our abilities. Keeping an local anemone used to cold water in a 75 degree tank is hardly doing that.

Just my .02.

[Invigor]

You missed one point regarding your argument vs. local wildlife/tropical wildlife. The majority of us try to mimic our livestocks natural location to the best of our abilities. Keeping an local anemone used to cold water in a 75 degree tank is hardly doing that.

I don't think a glass box is quite replicating their natural habitat. That would be like sticking us in a glass room, and putting a few trees and some grass in it, and calling it a replica of our natural habitat.

We've done so much already to destroy the world we live in, which I believe is inevitable fate anyways, so really, I don't think it matters much to the world if someone nabs an anemone out of the ocean and climatises it to live in warmer water inside a glass box.

There is no way any one can justfy that they are not leaving an eco foot print with this hubby. So don't try to sound like you care. If you realy do then take down your tank.

couldn't have said it better.

[muck]

Ok every body looks like there are people here that are mad at me taking the local wild life out of the water and then there are some that think is ok. I'm not saying what I did was right but at the same time don't you think we are all guilty of taking these little life out of their homes and put them in some where they don't belong just to satisfy our wants?

What is the difference of me taking a life from my local water compaired to some third world under paid person that is working in dangers enviorment using drugs or nets to catch these little lifes and then sending them on a 24-48hr flight where more then 30% will die then end up at our local fish store? The way I look at it is at least I only have to transport 5 min instead of 24-48hr and I did my home work and took a calculative risk compaired to some people that just walks in to a store and buys corls or fish when they don't have the right setup.

Have you looked in to the local fish store's tank the day after they recived a new shippment? Why don't you try to count the dead fish?

There is no way any one can justfy that they are not leaving an eco foot print with this hubby. So don't try to sound like you care. If you realy do then take down your tank.
If this was aimed at me...
I never said I was mad at you for taking local wild anemones for your tank. In fact I don't have a problem with it as long as it is legal to do so. The only point I was really trying to stress was now that you have taken an anemone out of the local ocean (and kept it in your tank along with life from Tropical Oceans) was to please please do not put it back in the wild.
If not I still said my piece...

[danny zubot]

Keeping an local anemone used to cold water in a 75 degree tank is hardly doing that.

IMO, if the anemone is alive and thriving at that temp, then it would be considered a success. I'm not sure how I feel about the ethics of taking local live stock from the coast. Both sides have valid points, and if I lived on the coast I might be tempted to do the same thing.

[rickjames]

I don't think a glass box is quite replicating their natural habitat. That would be like sticking us in a glass room, and putting a few trees and some grass in it, and calling it a replica of our natural habitat.


Emphasis on TRY, never said we WERE replicating their habitat.

My point was that keeping a local anemone in a reef tank is not TRYING to replicate its habitat.
:biggrin:

[Diana]

IMO taking livestock from local waters is the same as livestock being taken from tropical waters. Actually, i think its even better, because so few people collect around here, whereas some areas in the tropics are over-harvested. Its a tough hobby we are in, and the best way is to be sensible about it. When you buy from the store, try to buy tank-raised creatures or ones that are MAC certified. When you collect from local waters, collect only from areas with a strong population of the particular organism, and try to provide the best possible home for it.

Acclimatizing the anenomes to your tropical marine tank probebly worked because they were most likely tidepool creatures, and can withstand much warmer temperatures. However, in nature they also get cold bursts of water when the tide comes in, so one can assume they require this to flourish. I think its a good experiment (as so much of this hobby is!), but please dont release back into the wild if you have mixed temperate and tropical. Just like people have been saying, you could release a real nasty.

-Diana

[OCDP]

Yikes, I think everyone has stressed their points enough!

It has been said once.... it's not going back in . Chill .

and uhhh.. pics? :idea:

[Johnny Reefer]

What species are these local anemones?

Cheers,

[adidas]

they sound like they are doing awesome.. BRING ON THE PICS!!! :biggrin: :cool: :cool:

[HimSelf]

Hi every I'm new so I will try to figur out how to post pics. I don't think it will be too hard. I will take some pic's after the pink one has fished spliting. I just checked today and looks like is retracted in to this cave.

They are from the family called the gaint green ananos. You can look it up on Google for more info.

Cheers

[Reefhawk1]

I have collected snails and crabs from the local shores when I lived on Van Island. The crabs became a food source for my lion fish and the snails thrived in the tank. When I move back to the coast I am going to build a cold water tank with local species and use ocean water for nutrients. Lets see those Pics :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[monza]

If you can't find a hit on gaint green ananos :eek:

This might help, interesting thread for sure.....
http://www.mbayaq.org/efc/living_species/default.asp?hOri=0&hab=4&inhab=157

[StirCrazy]

Only thinks I got are yes you need a permit to collect them from local waters (I actually checked into it) and second, in the long run you are killing them, yes they will live in warmer waters (75 is still cooler than most reef tanks) but they will not have a normal lifespan as they cannot cope with permanently increased temperates and this increases there metabolism dramatically and will cause them to age prematurely.
third as mention you cannot return them to the ocean due to possible pathogen/parasite issues if you have had anything else in the tank that is non native, heck even native display tanks that have been separated from the ocean cannot be returned so basically you have taken a beautifully local species and sentenced it to death.

Steve

[HimSelf]

Oh come on Steve read my last post. "sentenced it to death" don't you think that's a little to harsh? How many fish do you have in your tank that you "sentenced it to death"?

[HimSelf]

Hey Steve since you own or work at Island Aquatics what do you think about all those dead fish in your tank? Why are you so negtive about my little ananos from the local water? Are you scard that you will losse sales in your store?

You should watch what you say. You don't want to get a bad image for Island Aquatics now do you?

[AJ_77]

heh, I don't think that's a real store... :mrgreen:


But seeing these and other examples of (your) local wildlife, including that great pic Adam posted, has caused me to re-evaluate my bias toward tropical species.

Seeing all those vibrant green anemones at the Van Aquarium, I used to go "wow" and then, "but they're only cold-water." Don't hink I can do that anymore...

[Delphinus]

I really don't see a problem with a coldwater tank. Very neat, very challenging, very rewarding.

But that doesn't make the other points wrong. Wildlife collecting does require a permit (I think just a fishing permit may suffice, but it would be better to check), and certainly never collect anything out of a protected area. Releasing anything back that has been exposed to non-native species should also be avoided.

And, unfortunately, yes, if a species is coldwater but manages to survive temporarily at warmer temps, that doesn't mean it is "thriving." I mean, we just don't know. If the species natural range extends into waters where the temperatures are that within your tank, that would be one thing; but if the range doesn't extend that far -- that has to tell you something. I'm not saying it is, I'm not saying it's not; I'm saying that just plunking something into your tank and the fact that it doesn't die right away -- doesn't tell you enough to make an accurate judgment call. More careful research needs to be done. Ultimately, I think forcing an animal to adapt to conditions is less optimal than the artificial environment being adapted to the animal.

All that said, I myself would love to do a coldwater SW set up some day myself, and "more power" to anyone who does so themselves too (as long as it's done "properly").

There ... now I've said my piece. Oh, and yah. "Chill." Isn't that what we're talking about anyhow????? :mrgreen: :lol:

[Johnny Reefer]

I really don't see a problem with a coldwater tank.

If the species natural range extends into waters where the temperatures are that within your tank, that would be one thing; but if the range doesn't extend that far -- that has to tell you something.


Coldwater tanks isn't the issue here. He is keeping what can be regarded as a coldwater species in a warm water tank.

When I asked what species it was a definitive reply was not given, but was rather vague. This leads me to believe that the "homework" that was done isn't so much for any research and experimental purposes, but rather just trying to save a few $. Am I right, Himself? (I get that you are very anti-LFS).

The link that monza provided states that the species, assuming that it is the species in question, ranges all the way to Panama. So the species appears to be capable of living in warm water, but one could argue that the local specimens are acclimatized to coldwater and thus should remain in coldwater.

The link also says never remove this species from their native habitat.

I think a little more "homework" and "calculation" should have been exercised regarding this before the anemones were removed from their habitat. JMO.

Cheers,

PS- I tried bringing up Vancouver Aquariums website to find out any local info on this species but their website appears down now. (Can't bring it up).

[rickjames]

Hey Steve since you own or work at Island Aquatics what do you think about all those dead fish in your tank? Why are you so negtive about my little ananos from the local water? Are you scard that you will losse sales in your store?

You should watch what you say. You don't want to get a bad image for Island Aquatics now do you?

:rolleyes: Listen, if you didn't want to hear people's opinions on your "free" anemone experiment (both pro and con) then why did you post here? Steve stated his opinion and backed it up. This reply was unnecessary.

[Scavenger]

I really don't see a problem with a coldwater tank. Very neat, very challenging, very rewarding.

Wildlife collecting does require a permit (I think just a fishing permit may suffice, but it would be better to check), and certainly never collect anything out of a protected area.

Yes, I've already inquired with the DFO and a fishing licence is all you need to collect native species. However, you must still abide by the regulations ie: bag limit, area and species closures. I'm still planning my coldwater tank. I should have water in it any year now. LOL!

[Delphinus]

Coldwater tanks isn't the issue here. He is keeping what can be regarded as a coldwater species in a warm water tank.


I understand that it is a distinct issue.. I did also make comments regarding the practise of animals inside environments not specifically tailored to the needs of those animals. You don't need to argue with me per se, I think we're on the same page here. :biggrin:

cheers

[OCDP]

ahem,

Chill.

ahem...

[Johnny Reefer]

Coldwater tanks isn't the issue here. He is keeping what can be regarded as a coldwater species in a warm water tank.


I understand that it is a distinct issue.. I did also make comments regarding the practise of animals inside environments not specifically tailored to the needs of those animals. You don't need to argue with me per se, I think we're on the same page here. :biggrin:

cheers

Yes, I agree that we are on the same page. I wasn't trying to argue with you re: coldwater tanks. It's just that I saw you refer to that a couple of times, in this thread, and I see this thread as a discussion on something different than that. I was merely trying to point my view on that out to you. As for including your input on species range, in the "Delphinus Wrote" part, the intent there was for continuity sake for the reader. The intent was not to argue your point. *Edit: Re: my input regarding species being already acclimatized to coldwater... I suppose the phrase "one could argue..." was the wrong phrase to use. What I meant was more along the lines of..."something else to think about..." Edit complete*. No offense was intended. :smile:

Cheers,

[Snappy]

I wonder if thats what happened to the urchins of the Caribean. They all died about 20 years ago, it happened so fast that they never had the chance to figure out why. The reefs are all dying as a result.
????????? :confused:
When scuba diving in the Carribean I see lots of urchins every time I go.

[Invigor]

heck even native display tanks that have been separated from the ocean cannot be returned so basically you have taken a beautifully local species and sentenced it to death.

how's that any different than anyone else in the world?

[OCDP]

err, I don't think he has quite sentenced it to death Stir... I mean , I haven't been paying super close attention to the thread, but didn't he mention he was having success keeping these anemones long-term?

If so.... they haven't been sentenced to death.

And good point Invigor.

[Funky_Fish14]

They are suggesting that the annemonies will die prematurely(which is highly likely), which technically is sentencing it to death.

Chris

[rickjames]

OCDP, Gawd, change your avatar! That thing is frickin huge! :razz:

[Delphinus]

Yes, I agree that we are on the same page. I wasn't trying to argue with you re: coldwater tanks. It's just that I saw you refer to that a couple of times, in this thread, and I see this thread as a discussion on something different than that. I was merely trying to point my view on that out to you. As for including your input on species range, in the "Delphinus Wrote" part, the intent there was for continuity sake for the reader. The intent was not to argue your point. *Edit: Re: my input regarding species being already acclimatized to coldwater... I suppose the phrase "one could argue..." was the wrong phrase to use. What I meant was more along the lines of..."something else to think about..." Edit complete*. No offense was intended. :smile:


And none taken John. It's just that this thread is really quite about a lot of different things. The coldwater tanks, yeah, OK, a little out in left field maybe, but I mentioned it only in passing as a lead-in to the other points I was trying to make, which I thought were more important. 1) Collection process, permit vs. no permit, 2) research of a species environmental tolerances, 3) what to do with the animals if/when they start to decline. Amongst others too, of course. Anyhow, I guess the problem is if you quote me, I feel compelled to respond. If you're the same as me in that regard, maybe we can stretch this out a couple more pages and maybe even we can see how many more times we can get OCDP to say "chill" too. :razz: :lol:

[Johnny Reefer]

Anyhow, I guess the problem is if you quote me, I feel compelled to respond. If you're the same as me in that regard, maybe we can stretch this out a couple more pages and maybe even we can see how many more times we can get OCDP to say "chill" too. :razz: :lol:

:lol:
Page 5 is comin' up soon!
Oh, and no problem, IMO.
:biggrin:

Cheers,

[GobiGurl]

The testosterone certainly is swimming around in this post. I have an extra bag of ice for the winner! :agrue: :lol:

[rickjames]

I wonder if thats what happened to the urchins of the Caribean. They all died about 20 years ago, it happened so fast that they never had the chance to figure out why. The reefs are all dying as a result.
????????? :confused:
When scuba diving in the Carribean I see lots of urchins every time I go.

Here is quote from Dr. Shimek's article on reef keeping this month talking about what Danny is referring to (not included is the picture):

Figure 4. This image, taken in 1981, gives an idea of the abundance of Diadema antillarum in the Caribbean prior to the disease that ravaged their populations in 1983. Diadema are ecologically extinct throughout the Caribbean today.

[StirCrazy]

Hey Steve since you own or work at Island Aquatics what do you think about all those dead fish in your tank? Why are you so negtive about my little ananos from the local water? Are you scard that you will losse sales in your store?

You should watch what you say. You don't want to get a bad image for Island Aquatics now do you?

first I don't have a store, and yes I own Island aquatics which will only deal in custom equipment and acrylic fabrication when it is officially opened. so as for you taking a local species and subjecting it to conditions that are not what it should have (mainly temperature related as I could care less about the size of tank and lighting issue in this case because we can provide the proper things in those areas easy enuf)

In effect you have taken a creature that could possibly live 50+ years left in the wild and reduced its lifespan dramatically, and I am not talking about it happening from lack of care and food ect.. but from a simple excessively high Temp that will raise its metabolism dramatically hence shortening its natural life span.

about 3 years ago I had the same idea as you but instead of running out and doing it I sent e-mails to people who would know if it is a feasible thing to do, Dr Ron Shimek's e-mail was the one that convinced me to not do it as he is the only one who's specialty is the cold water species of invertebrate off of Vancouver Island. his email said yes you can keep it in there but it will have a unusually shore life span as compared to the ones in nature. an increase in temp increases the metabolism shortening the life of the critter. further more when I asked if they could be adapted over generations the answer was "no, well not in our life span anyways"

Steve

[HimSelf]

Can anyone say their tank has the idenical condition as the waters where your fish came from?

If the answer is no then why are we taking these fish and putting them in an inferior condition?

Would that be negligence on us?

We are all on the stand here. So before you go bashing around think twice.

Please don't use excuses that we are trying our best or at least is legal. When was the last time you went to the LFS and ask to see the licence of their supplier, are their workers working unerder a save condition, is there child labour involved or how about human rights?

Even though we are trying our best to match the conditions of their natural habitat but in our heart we know is not even close. Is there a chance that these anaimals will die prematurely in a inferior condition? I belive the answer is YES and for those that does not agree then that is just pure ignorance.

P.S: Since most of the life stook is from 3rd world countries like the Philipens and Indonesia what do you think about the working condition? I have been to these countries (out side of the resort and the tourst area) and I don't know how to say it but some how it makes you understand that is not these people don't care about the ocean but they have no choice.

[rickjames]

Can anyone say their tank has the idenical condition as the waters where your fish came from?

If the answer is no then why are we taking these fish and putting them in an inferior condition?

Would that be negligence on us?

We are all on the stand here. So before you go bashing around think twice.


Even though we are trying our best to match the conditions of their natural habitat but in our heart we know is not even close. Is there a chance that these anaimals will die prematurely in a inferior condition? I belive the answer is YES and for those that does not agree then that is just pure ignorance.


Nobody here will claim that their tank is the same conditions as the ocean, and nobody can. And no one can say for certain whether a specific animal could have lived longer in the ocean. I won't claim that my tank is looking out for the best interest of all the inhabitants, if I wanted to provide them the best I would not be in this hobby at all, and my animals would be in the sea. But what I TRY to do is replicate their environment to the best of my abilities with the tools and information that is available to me, and think that giving my visitors a chance to have a close up look at the occupants will give them a greater appreciation for what many take for granted.


Please don't use excuses that we are trying our best or at least is legal. When was the last time you went to the LFS and ask to see the licence of their supplier, are their workers working unerder a save condition, is there child labour involved or how about human rights?

So where do we draw the line? How about the shoes you wear everyday? Where do you think those were made? Or you mp3 player, digital camera, the computer you are using right now, etc. etc.


The fact is that you're keeping a cold water anemone in a warm water tank, and that you are not even TRYING to replicate its natural environment. But when it comes right down to it, everyone has their own ethics, and if yours allow you to keep anemones in your tank, then go for it.

BTW, we hit page 5! :biggrin:

[Mitch#3]

As a new member I thought I would jump right into the fray



First of all we should all go reread the introduction to Martin A Moe Jr.’s Marine Aquarium Reference (Systems and invertebrates) (Martin is still the King)

The extremes of environmental rights and wrongs are easy to determine. It is very wrong to destroy a coral reef with dynamite to collect a few stunned angelfish and wrong to use cyanide and other methods that kill far more aquarium fish than they capture in good health. It is wrong to kill whales threatened with extinction, wrong to pollute with toxic waste. On the other hand, use of fish, shrimp, and lobsters for food is right if the fishing is so managed that the populations are not destroyed and the ecosystems are not damaged. It is right to use fish and invertebrates for scientific research to learn about the nature of these animals and the effects our activities have on the environment. However, as with birds and mammals, marine organisms are an aesthetic as well as a sustaining source, and this is where some conflict of opinion lies.……..…………………………………………………………………………………………………………… ……………………Life in the sea is short and seldom sweet. Relatively few individual organisms survive to become adults, and most of those that do seldom live more than a year or two. In nature, the survival of the individual is rarely significant. It is the survival of the species that counts. An individual shrimp may be quickly inhaled by a grouper, scooped up in a shrimp net and frozen for market, or carefully collected and maintained in an aquarium for a few months. Whatever the fate of the individual animal and whatever, if any, human use is made of it, the loss of the animal to the environment is one thing, and the meaning of its death in human terms is something else.

To those of you who are ranting I would suggest that you direct your energies towards the fisheries and some if their practices that kill off 1000s of “waste” fish and inverts every day, who knows they might adapt just fine.......

To HimSelf where do you reside,

Shame on you for not running a cold water tank. Some of the fish and inverts are just to cool for words and according to the people I talked to at the Vancouver aquarium easier to keep than the tropical types.

Cheers
Mitch#3

[SeaShell]

I just got back from a visit to Ucluelet on Vancouver Island. They have a mini-aquarium there that is phenomenal! Every spring they dive to collect local oceanic animals and set up this aquarium. Then, every fall they dismantle it and put the animals back in the ocean.

You do need a permit to harvest animals from the ocean! They obviously have one.

My point, however, is that you may get information on keeping or releasing Himself's critters from the biologist at the aquarium. They are huge into education there and very helpful.

The website is http://www.uclueletaquarium.org/

I'm sure if you email them they can help you.

[StirCrazy]

Can anyone say their tank has the idenical condition as the waters where your fish came from?



back the bus up! are you trying to compare taking an animal that is adapted to living in 51 to 53 degree F water and putting it in a tank that is 76 degrees to taking an animal that is used to 78 degrees f and putting it a tank that is 79 or 80?

if so you better step back and do a serious reality check here.

Steve

[Mitch#3]

I just got back from a visit to Ucluelet on Vancouver Island. They have a mini-aquarium there that is phenomenal! Every spring they dive to collect local oceanic animals and set up this aquarium.

YES I agree 100%, the marine environment around Van may be "cold" but it is stunningly beautiful. :lol:

cheers
Mitch#3

[props]

man i just want to the see the pictures :neutral:

[BCOrchidGuy]

Okay I can see both sides of this arguement. Collecting a local species and adapting it to tropical conditions is not natural. Yes our local waters can warm up in the summer. As a dive instructor I've seen local shallow bays hit 75* F in the summer HOWEVER most invert and fish life goes to the deeper area below the thermocline where it can be in COOLER water. You rarely see anemonies in the warmer water if they can escape, mussels that are attatched can adapt if they need to, let's face it they cant just pack up and move 20 feet deeper.
How many of us do water changes, not all our water is treated through sewage systems. How many of us have dumped out water from our tank into our toilet or bath tub. YES there is fresh water there but you know, alot of us keep fresh water as well so our parasites etc are still being introduced into the environment. Am I saying it's no big deal??? Absolutely not (Christy would kick my butt). But seriously, it is a big deal, look at our local area's where sewage out fall and drain out fall has hurt local dive sites. An area can be stripped of all life in just a couple of short years once our waste products start being introduced into the area.
In reef keeping when you are talking about anemones that have 50-150 year life span, can we say 9 months to a year is long term. One of the anemonies is splitting, that's great, or is it. How do we force anemones to split, by introducing stress, force them to split because they know when they are stressed, they need to try to propogate the species.

My opinions are simply, bad move but you've done it, learn from it maybe it will work out, I think it's irresponsible though. Our local waters have life that can rival that of any tropical dive area. Jacque Cousteau named Vancouver Island as one of his favorite dive destinations in the world. Let's keep cold water species in cold water, warm water species in warm water and let's not take cheap shots at people who offer an opinion when you posted the topic in the first place. Steve isn't your enemy, either is Muck or anyone else. Mature people have mature discussions and that doesn't have to lead to fights.

Just my 2 cents worth.. (okay maybe a bit more than that)

Doug

[Willow]

this thread cracks me up.

[TrailFish]

i'm with you

[Chaloupa]

I gotta agree with BC Orchid guy and soooo many others here...when this thread was started did you really think that everyone would think it was the coolest idea ever to remove local anemones and put them into your warm water tank? There is controversy to any subject...you opened the door to everyone posting "their" 2 cents worth....you will hear things that you don't want to...and of course things that you do...in anything you have to take the good with the bad....buck up....enjoy the discussion that you have started (take the responsibility for such a controversial topic) and hopefully you will take some of the advice and not feel the need to bite back. No one bit you...just gave you some food for thought!

[Van down by the river]

Nice post BCOrchidGuy/Doug
Thanks for the good debate "Himself".
Nice to see a decent debate, although I think it was done a few pages ago.

Oh yeah please try to remember it's spelt:
:arrow: ANEMONES!

If anything was gained by this thread could it at least be, learning the proper spelling? It was misspelled 10+ times!

[adidas]

Oh yeah please try to remember it's spelt:
:arrow: ANEMONES!

If anything was gained by this thread could it at least be, learning the proper spelling? It was misspelled 10+ times!

lol yeah that improper spelling was driving me nuts. :crazyeye:

[medic_eva]

yer tellin me i went through 5 pages of crap for no pics!!!! come on man! put on the pics!

[StirCrazy]

If anything was gained by this thread could it at least be, learning the proper spelling? It was misspelled 10+ times!

you picking on my spelling? :mrgreen: anyways good to see you back around, sence I couldn't get to see you for coffee while you were in Gods country I will have to check in with you this fall when I am in Vancouver for school.

Steve