Need help fast!!!!!

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I have a 55 gal that was reef but I have changed it to fish and a couple corals(xenia and glove polyps) Everything has been great until I brought a small picasso trigger home yesterday. There has been no aggression at all from the trigger but I did have my red wrasse die last night but he had no signs of aggression either. This morning I notice all my fish are gasping for air. I immediatley tested my water and noticed an ammonia spike. Nothing that I could see other than a small piece of xenia that was dead. I have reduced the ammonia with water changes but nothing has changed. Is there any parasite that could have been introduced? I don't want to lose everything what can I do?

[Aquattro]

I'd add an airstone to relieve the gasping a bit, do a good sized water change. When did you re-arrange the tank, or did you rearrange the tank?

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I rearranged the tank a little yesterday why? Did I do something bad? I don't have a dsb.

[Aquattro]

sometimes stirring things up can cause a bit of a cycle. Just the anoxic areas of buried rock getting exposed, things like that. It is possible to introduce a parasite that might affect fish as you describe, but overnight is kinda quick. What is the NH3 level at now?

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I will test again right now and let you know

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I can't really tell the color difference but it looks like it's still at .5 but that's what it was when I started and I've done about 25 gals in water changes. Should I keep doing them?

[1bigstud]

doing a 25 gallon water change is quite a bit iny a 55 gallon tank jmo. How often are you doing these water changes??? You dont wanna change too much to quickly ime it will only make things worse.

[Aquattro]

You dont wanna change too much to quickly ime it will only make things worse.

Curious where that comes from. As long as chemicla parameters are matching (pH, alk, Ca) within reason, there would be nothing stopping me from doing much larger changes. Not saying they're required here, but just wondered why you thought big changes are bad?

One thing you could do is siphon a 5g pail of water out, then dump it back and forth between buckets to add some O2 to the water, then put it back in the tank. Watch the fish carefully, as your actions will depend on how you feel they are doing.

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I have two airstones in there right now aerating the water. Is that enough? Surface agitation will help too right? I added some amquel too I hope that helps.

[Aquattro]

That should help. How are the fish? Are they gasping near the surface, or just gasping all over the tank?

[Edmonton Eskimo]

My tomato clown has bee swimming around a little but the others are still gasping more towards the bottom of the tank.

[Aquattro]

Any scratching of gills on the rocks?

BTW, anyone that might be more smarter with fish than me could jump in here anytime :razz:

[Edmonton Eskimo]

nope no scratching just gasping. The clown is becoming more mobile now and everyone seems to be doing a little better except my damsel-go figure.

[rickjames]

I can't really tell the color difference but it looks like it's still at .5 but that's what it was when I started and I've done about 25 gals in water changes. Should I keep doing them?

Did you do a 25 gal water change at once? Unless you do a large water change all in one shot you aren't going to be able to dillute the ammonia much. If I were you I would start mixing up Some SW and do a 50% water change if possible, making sure to match temp, salt content, and pH to the tank. While you are waiting for your SW to mix you could run as much carbon as possible in your system, it should help.

Just a note, I have heard it is not uncommon for wholesalers to do close to 100% water changes!

[Beverly]

Just curious as to which lfs the fish came from. Some lfs use a bit of copper in their tanks, though even if you did get a bit of copper in the tank from the bag, I can't imagine that being the cause.

Dead xenia might have been caused by the trigger? Which might have released toxins into the water? Gosh, anything's possible. Get some carbon running in the tank as well as keep doing water changes.

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I got the fish from that place in devon. I didn't put the bag water in my tank. I hope I can save them. I really didn't see the trigger being agressive to anything. He wasn't picking at anything all he was really doing was getting used to the tank and hiding in the skull that is in there.

[medic_eva]

good luck smalls buddy!!!

[Edmonton Eskimo]

Thanks Eva. Hey you're a medic what gives here!!

[1bigstud]

I agree reef raf as long as the parameters match then big water changes are fine. I just wasnt sure if that was the case Excuse me while I take my foot out of my mouth.

[christyf5]

I agree with Brad, you may have stirred something up that didn't need to be stirred. Water changes and aeration should put you back on track. Only time will tell. I highly doubt that anything parasitic could have done this so quickly, since they need time to replicate and distribute themselves onto neighboring fish.

Good luck and keep us posted

Christy :)

[medic_eva]

Thanks Eva. Hey you're a medic what gives here!!

lol no idea dude. i couldn't even recognise a stomatella today... i'm slacking! my mind is going or something...

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I took some of the fish out and put them in a separate bin with water from my other tank. I have the bin aerated and there is no detectable ammonia in that bin. I checked my main tank for ammonia and my test says it is 0 but my tomato clown is still struggling for air. I have been battling this since this morning do I stand a chance or is the damage already done? All of the fish are still alive(other than the wrasse which perished last night)Should I continue with water changes or stop?

[christyf5]

I'd be tempted to do another water change. Just to dilute whatever is potentially causing any problems.

Just my 2 cents.

Christy :)

[Edmonton Eskimo]

Thanks to everyone who has posted here and if anyone else has any suggestions or experiences with this don't be shy. Everyone is still alive and my fingers are crossed. I will update as more information is available. BTW what kind of timeframe do I have here?

[christyf5]

What do you mean?? I wouldn't keep those fish in buckets forever :wink: Do your water change, aerate the living crap out of it and put the fish back in. See how it goes.

Have you got some good aeration in the bucket as well??

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I have aeration everywhere! They have only been in the bin for about an hour(with heater,airstone and powerhead) I meant what kind of timeframe for survival.

[christyf5]

Well if it was an oxygenation problem thats a hard one to call. Sometimes fish can survive that sometimes they survive it for a few days and then languish. If it was something else, then I'd say by doing some water changes and getting them out of the tank you're helping to fix the problem. I'd say that if they're all alive tomorrow morning you're safe?? I call that one the "christmas morning" test :neutral:

[Edmonton Eskimo]

Well, I'm pretty sure it was the ammonia spike and not an oxygen problem. Can they recover from the ammonia spike?

[christyf5]

I think so, if the ammonia spike wasn't too great. Sometimes it can cause gill damage and burn through mucous (usually only if there is a lot of ammonia present). The gill damage can heal quite quickly if it isn't too extensive. The lack of mucous on the fish can sometimes leave them open to secondary infections though. Keep an eye on any skin lesions you might see. And aeration, aeration, aeration. That will make it easier for the potentially damaged gills to do their job if there are high levels of oxygen present.

[Edmonton Eskimo]

Thank you very much Christy. I think I have done all I can do now so I guess all I can do now is wait. Wish me luck

[christyf5]

Good luck! I know the waiting game sucks :razz: I hope it has a great outcome though :biggrin:

[Edmonton Eskimo]

Well I think I made it through. I did lose three fish but I managed to save five of them. My tomato,yellow watchman,yellow tang, royal gramma and yes, the trigger made it. Though I wish I wouldn't have lost anyone I am pleased with the outcome. I know now exactly what I did wrong. I recently put a lot of my live rock along with all my corals into another tank leaving my 55 with not enough live rock and I believe this is why the ammonia spike occured. Thank you to all that helped :mrgreen:

[medic_eva]

glad it wasn't worse man!

eva

[Edmonton Eskimo]

Thanks Eva! Me too, I was terrified that I was going to lose everything so I guess it wasn't that bad :neutral:

[1bigstud]

Sorry to hear about youre losses but glad to hear things are getting better.

Rick.