Vendor comment forum

[nickb]

Why has the thread discussing the closing of the vendor rating forum also been locked?

One major benefit of hobby discussion boards like Canreef is the opportunity to share information about vendors, products and places to buy them. If Canreef cancels the vendor rating forum, those comments will start appearing in the general discussion fora instead.

I find it hard to believe that the voume of comments in the vendor discussion forum imposes problems on the server. More likely, this change is due to vendors complaining about negative comments. Does this mean that comments about problems with products and vendors placed in other fora will also be removed?

[Aquattro]

nickb, the vendor ratings forum is closed for good. Product review forum is still active, and you can post your product experiences there. Due to the inflammatory threads that most often evolve in the vendor ratings thread, we've discontinued it. We have had threats of legal action as a result of some of those posts, and the guidelines we had asked be followed many times were not.
To answer your question, yes, any vendor rating type thread posted anywhere else on the board will be removed.

[nickb]

So, does that mean that if I buy a product which is defective and which the company declines to repair or replace, that I am prevented from sharing this negative experience with other members of the Board?

Or alternatively, if I find a great new vendor, who provide superb services, etc., would I be prevented from sharing that information too?

[Aquattro]

If you buy a product that is defective or does not work as advertised, please post your thoughts on it in the Product Reviews forum. If the manufacturer does not stand behind it's warranty, you can express that also.
If you buy a product tath you feel is a great buy, you can also post a thread about that. We do encourage product reviews.

The whole process of Vendor Ratings though does nothing to disuade a consumer from shopping somewhere. Every thread ever posted was "I hate this store because..." and was followed by "you're wrong, it's the best store in the world because...." and was always an argument. If you shop somewhere you get great service, keep shopping there. If you get bad service, it's likely they will give everyone bad service and will pay for that in the end without your intervention.
Nobody here ever didn't go to a store because of bad press, and nobody switched their favorite store because of good press.
The vendor ratings forum did not serve any purpose that out-weighed the hassle of moderating it, and generally did more harm than good. I hope this answers your questions. Thanks.

[Willow]

brad i think a lot of people have told you guys that the vendor ratings forum was useful and we would like it back.

it does take some moderation, if you guys are overworked moding the rest of the board get some few more mods to help out or assign one to just the vendors forum, it's not a big deal and im sure there are plenty of people here with some experance that would help out.

i don't think that's the reason though, im sure it is somehow linked to sponsorship and or lack of it. if you want revenue add google ad sense on the bottom of every page, with our traffic titus could more that pay the bills around here. isn't that the goal with all these changes?

[Tarolisol]

Threats of legal action, thats rediculus. Its called free speach. This forum is becoming severly censored. :confused:

[Troy F]

It may well be ridiculous but it be true.

What exactly are you people missing with the vendor rating forum no longer being here?

Seems to me the board has a few people that are always stirring every pot they can. I don't see many people missing the forum. I know! Willow, why don't you start a poll?

[Zerandise]

well i for one dont know ALL the stores in BC. I like to hear about them. I found ALOT of new shops that have been around for years from forums like the rating one. maybe a good way for the staff to get around it would be to sticky a post in the reef forum or in each of the club forums with a list of shops. I know this would still not get anyone to sponcer the forum but would make it look at least a bit better for canreef.

We all love the forum. We also love how the forum helped us get in touch with shops we didnt know about.

Maybe since the staff know all about all the shops they can write a small bit on each one so the rest of us do as well.

once again i could be wrong. maybe like the rest of us the staff doesnt know every shop and how each one is.....

[Troy F]

Holy crap, I'm shocked that you found this thread too. :eek:

[christyf5]

Heres a list of stores. Each store has a link to a review with photos of the store and such.

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/travel/Norfolk_Vancouver_Map.html

[Samw]

I personally never found any value in the vendor rating forum. I don't think we need that forum but I do think that if someone had a bad experience, they should be able to post it in their local forum (IE. Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, etc)

[Rikko]

I wasn't able to get a poll to work, but here's what I had said:

---

(Poll here)

It may well be ridiculous but it be true.

What exactly are you people missing with the vendor rating forum no longer being here?

Seems to me the board has a few people that are always stirring every pot they can. I don't see many people missing the forum. I know! Willow, why don't you start a poll?

Perhaps that was tongue in cheek, but I didn't think so.
At the risk of ****ing off all the mods, I think I can explain where the point of contention is. The official line is that the forum is gone because:

I think at this point, all we can say is it may be a conflict of interest in the future. With recent changes to the board, we have to re-evalute some of our features and forums, with Vendor Ratings being a questionable item.

Conflict of interest between paying advertisers and consumer reviews. ie. You don't want to be stuck in the position where a paying client demands you to censor your board because they don't like what their customers are saying.

The Vendor Rating forum had always been the one that generated questionable and grey area discussions. The Staff spent more time discussing about issues related to the forum than anywhere else.

Since we are under a rather big change (at least on our end on server changes, traffic charges for our server, and web page layouts), I have decided to streamline the board also by removing this forum for better resource utilization on our part.

Because having a forum with an average of maybe one post every 5 days is an unnecessary bog on system resources.

Due to the inflammatory threads that most often evolve in the vendor ratings thread, we've discontinued it. We have had threats of legal action as a result of some of those posts, and the guidelines we had asked be followed many times were not.

Because of friction being generated between members who disagree about a particular store.
Also, because someone threatened to sue Canreef Aquatics. (I once told somebody online that their particular beliefs were stupid. They threatened legal action. I encouraged them to look for a lawyer who would even take that case. I remain out of court and their beliefs are still, to the best of my knowledge, stupid.)

What exactly are you people missing with the vendor rating forum no longer being here?

We're missing the exact reason as to why it's gone, as I hope I've illustrated.
As a reefer, I see it as censorship. As a retailer, I see it as a "perk" to investing in advertising. Though some people here seem to think that the reasons given (choose one) are a wash, I do see where you're coming from. Having spent a great deal of time on ReefCentral, however, I've grown to really respect the retailers who are interested enough to see negative posts about them and have the actual salesperson who dealt with the matter come and give their side of it. No need to fling poo, and no need to escalate it - if a retailer replies only once and says "I'm sorry, I was having a very bad day and I had already told you twice the day before that you would not be allowed to return that" then that's really enough for me.

[kari]

That forum was all whining and complaining. Bye bye Venders Ratings :lol:

[Doug]

brad i think a lot of people have told you guys that the vendor ratings forum was useful and we would like it back.


Thats not true. Its just been a few people. We are taking notice of your concerns though, even if we dont agree.

[Doug]

Threats of legal action, thats rediculus. Its called free speach. This forum is becoming severly censored. :confused:

I disagree with that. I have seen it happen on other boards. The worse problem is, I, for one am not a lawyer. I dont know where the boundry is crossed, regardless of what some aquarists think is free speech.

Its me, as a staff member and Titus, as the boards owner, whose arse is on the line. I do this moderating crap, to try help out the board, as an aquarium information board, not to be a referee in these matters. Esp. where I dont know where the line is. Thats the worse problem.

Perhaps if someone else, that has a law degree and can handle these matters when they arise, they would be better as a moderator and I can step down.

My experience and skill, is in the keeping of reef aquariums. Period.

[Doug]

That forum was all whining and complaining. Bye bye Venders Ratings :lol:

I must agree with some others that there were some good threads. Some of which I enjoyed reading, but the ones yhat were as you mentioned are the pains.

Again, as in my other post, where do we draw the line without the legal knowledge?

[Aquattro]

How's this for an idea? And this is just my thoughts right now, haven't discussed with anyone else.
If you wanted to post a Vendor Rating post, you compose it and submit it to one of the mods for approval for content. Not to be censored, but to be sure it follows the guidelines we've always asked for. No slagging, etc

Just compliments or cosntructive criticism, we post it for you in a locked thread. That way your citique is posted, not subject to argument or discussion, and then everyone who wants to know about vendor experiences can read them.

Thoughts? Other mod guy's thoughts? What do the vendors think?

[Aquattro]

Oh, and on this censoring thing. You all know this is a private board, right? Try to think of this as someone's house. Just because you've been invited over doesn't mean you get free reign. If the rules are no smoking in the house, do you argue with that? Of course not. Please stop arguing over the rules here. They're implemented for a reason, and whether you agree or understand or whatever, those ARE the rules.
In some cases we will look at alternatives, but I see lots of attitude in this thread, and it isn't needed or welcomed.
Please feel free to come to our house and talk shop; most of you have been here a long time and we hope you'll continue to be here for a long time to come. However, if you can't follow the rules and guidelines set forth by the management of the board, please stay at your own house. Thanks.

[Beermaster]

If you wanted to post a Vendor Rating post, you compose it and submit it to one of the mods for approval for content. Not to be censored, but to be sure it follows the guidelines we've always asked for. No slagging, etc



Now thats a solution that works IMO


After reading and following this thread, i think this is the best idea yet, that way vendor ratings get posted and people can't argue about them


Now that is if the Moderators will post good reviews and Bad reviews and leave thier own personal feelings out of the situation

[Aquattro]

Now that is if the Moderators will post good reviews and Bad reviews and leave thier own personal feelings out of the situation

As I said, instead of "bad" reviews, we'll look for constructive criticism. You can post your unhappy thoughts, but without anger or attitude.

[Beermaster]

As I said, instead of "bad" reviews, we'll look for constructive criticism. You can post your unhappy thoughts, but without anger or attitude.

Sorry used the wrong wording there, I understand what you are saying

[Zerandise]

thats an A+ idea :)

[StirCrazy]

I am another that is glad the vendor rating forum is gone. and I applode Titus' desision to remove it as it was getting out of hand and out of control. there is a lot of "where should I buy" posts in other places on the board and they can be found with a simple search.

the main problem was that the vendor rating turned into a brawling match of you said I said and other junk that has no place on the board. "Other" board have also severally restricted there vendor rating sections also to the point if there is anything that could be considered slander ect the post is deleted entirely. SO with that going on what use is the section if entire posts get deleted for one persons comments.

If you want to know a good place to go or one to stay away from in Calgary simply go to the Calgary area and post "could some one tell me good places to shop in Calgary for seahorses ect.." or "could some one PM me on which places I should stay away from in Calgary"

the problem is like it has Bean stated is this is a private board and Titus is footing the bill. he tries to offset that by getting advertising and sponsors. what company in there right mind would advertise on or sponsor a board that lets the members slander them?? doesn't make good business sense now does it. Bottom line this is a private board where you have to applie for a membership not a e-mail group and we have to abide by the terms and conditions set by the owner, Titus. If we don't like them we are free to go else where and slam companies.

Steve

[christyf5]

jeez steve, get that spell checker online :confused: :razz:

[Tarolisol]

Threats of legal action, thats rediculus. Its called free speach. This forum is becoming severly censored. :confused:

I disagree with that. I have seen it happen on other boards. The worse problem is, I, for one am not a lawyer. I dont know where the boundry is crossed, regardless of what some aquarists think is free speech.

Its me, as a staff member and Titus, as the boards owner, whose arse is on the line. I do this moderating crap, to try help out the board, as an aquarium information board, not to be a referee in these matters. Esp. where I dont know where the line is. Thats the worse problem.

Perhaps if someone else, that has a law degree and can handle these matters when they arise, they would be better as a moderator and I can step down.

My experience and skill, is in the keeping of reef aquariums. Period.

I for one welcome anyone to try and sue me for my words Ive said on this board or any other part of my life, You can not be sued unless you are promoting hate, as in racial not commercial.


That being said i really have had no use for the Vender ratings i barly ever ventured into that forum let alone posted. But my earlier statment stands. This is getting quite censored. It may be due to a few people stiring the pot but maybe we should deal with the individual people and not lock every topic opened.

[StirCrazy]

I for one welcome anyone to try and sue me for my words Ive said on this board or any other part of my life, You can not be sued unless you are promoting hate, as in racial not commercial.

.

nice try but wrong, there were 23 people sued for libel about some pet company in the US based on a few statements on either a board or forum. the board owner got fined for letting it persist, and each individual person ended up either settling out of court for thousands each or losing in court. all the company has to do is prove your remarks were false and they had a negative impact on there business.

Steve

[Aquattro]

:evil:

[titus]

Hello,

I have watched this non sense going on long enough. I was the one who closed the other thread in question because people were discussing about off topic stuff on the last post. Here are what I have to say:

1) I dislike Vendor Rating Forum because it caused moderators more trouble than what it is worth.
2) I put the forum away for a number of reasons, not simply because of trying to attract sponsorship.
3) I do not like to see people challenging the Staff about decisions we make as we listen to all ideas, comments, and suggestions, then discuss amongst ourselves what best to do. We have provided more than ample explanations in the past. Challeging the Staff to me doesn't mean much respect and I'd like to see you banned as you are using my web traffic here not to discuss about reef topics.
4) You can call it censorship if you want. You can call me names in your home if you want. I don't care. But on here this is my space and I lay out my rules. If I want Canreef to be solely for discussions of all reef topics with no buy and sell, no product review, no vendor rating, no local club, I can certainly steer the board that way. I can do whatever I want here, and I welcome you to participate to the extent of the boundaries set out. No more. In this case, I do not want Vendor Rating Forum.
5) Yes there are a few people who wants to see the Vendor Rating Forum but there are also quite a few people who do not want to see it.
6) With regards to legal issues, if you do not understand this, then I suggest you go home and do something else. I do not want to see my server wasting CPU cycles on you discussing this.
7) For the web traffic, we were over limits as of the month of June after migrating server. Again, go home and stay away if you don't believe in it and want to challenge us on this matter. No incentive for me to waste my bandwidth to discuss this with you.
8) I consider this to be more than enough to serve those with common senses. There will be bannings with no warnings from the Staff as we see fit.

Titus