Skimmers

[outtafocus]

What protein skimmers are you guys running on your Nanos???

I am probably going to go for a Aqua C Remora from Golds, but if any one has any suggestions please feel free to share your experience.

I was kinda looking at the new Super skimmers from Coralife, both the needle wheel and venturi models.The needle wheel comes in a size rated for 65gals and smaller. Riverfront has one coming in but they have no idea of a price point yet. If it isn't cheaper than the Remora by a significant amount Im not really interested.
Thanks

[raquel]

I have had the Aqua C Remora Pro and now I have the Super Skimmer (Needle Wheel - 65 gal). The superskimmer can be more effective, But the superskimmer does overflow and flood rapidly when the water level changes or when it is adjusting to anything new.

But it has better contact between the foam and the water.

Raq

[outtafocus]

thank you for letting me know.
If you dont mind me asking approx how much did the 65g super skimmer run? What shop in Vanc did you pick it up from?

[muck]

If you dont mind me asking approx how much did the 65g super skimmer run? What shop in Vanc did you pick it up from?

Check out this thread in the Product Review Forum :mrgreen:

http://www.canreef.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16355

[raquel]

Hi, I got it at King Ed Pets on Kingsway in New West. It cost $149 for the 65 gal and $225 for the 125 gal size. Both are needle wheel.

Raq

[raquel]

I just found an issue with the superskimmer. It is still skimming great but the dial on the outflow has to be just right otherwise when you change your water level the thing goes crazy. And it has no overflow protection like the Aqua C Remora. SO...water spills out from the top, everywhere! Yikes.

Oh well, just thought I would add that bit of info.

[outtafocus]

I dont like that at all. I am in an apartment and a flood is not acceptable.
I will be drilling the collection cup to accept a drain fitting and hose.

I turned it off last night and was also off all day. I just got home and fired it up. I have the red adjustment knob turned all the way down, and the collection cup is still filling with water in about 2 mins. GRRRRR, I'd like to see what kinda gunk this thing pulls out but I may just have to wait till I set up my sump.

[raquel]

I find that the mid point is where it is most controlled, on the highest or lowest is the same deluge effect. Try turning the dial to a mid point. GO slow and it will slow down. It took me a few tries to figure it out. od luck.

Good Luck.

[fishface]

not to hijack this thread at all but i'm also thinking of converting my 10g FW tank into a nano and i'm thinking about a skimmer. i'm currently running a CPR bacpakc on my 25g tank but think it would be too big for a 10g. i think the remora or coralife rated for 65g tanks is a little larger than what a 10g tank can handle (size wise). is there such a beast for a 10g tank that isn't quite so huge?? i'm also thinkin' bout just going skimmerless since it's going to be mostly corals and a few inverts (maybe a few shrimp, hermits) and just relying on water changes. your opinions are valued so i'd love to hear em!

[deacon hemp]

You can run a 10gal easy without skimming,it is nice to have one though.It kinda depends on your fish load and how often you want to water change?

Ppl run backpac's on small tanks such as a 10 gal. I gotta try me a remora next,i was going coralife SS,but the overflow problem is a flaw in my eyes.

Fishface,even a cheapo skimmer like a prizm,sea clown,ect would do for a 10 gal.

[WWWD]

i run a 90 without a skimmer so a 10 should be easy.

[fishface]

i run a 90 without a skimmer so a 10 should be easy.good example! :redface: 'nuff said :mrgreen:

[Bob I]

I certainly agree with the above. IMHO it is totally silly to have a skimmer on a small tank. You can easily change some water at little cost, and if you are really worried you can run Chemipure in an outside filter like I do with good success. However, reeefers seem to love expensive gadgets, so fill your boots.

[StirCrazy]

I certainly agree with the above. IMHO it is totally silly to have a skimmer on a small tank. You can easily change some water at little cost, and if you are really worried you can run Chemipure in an outside filter like I do with good success. However, reeefers seem to love expensive gadgets, so fill your boots.

Bob, get off the wine or use your spell check :)

Bob so you are saying anyone who has a skimmer on a Small tank is silly? personally I don't care if you like skimmers or not or you run one or not but you can't call people silly because they run one on a small tank.

as for chem-pure it is not cheep actually I was very shocked by its price and you can build a ghetto skimmer for less than a jar of that. so I am not even going to comment on the saving money using chem-pure as I think it is bunk.

Skimmer are equipment, do you need one on a tiny tank... no. do you need one on any tank,... no. but you will be doing very large very frequent water changes. so what does a skimmer do? it allows you to save money by having another method of water cleaning besides pure water changes. does this mean you don't need to do water changes? ... no but it means instead of doing 80% every week on your 10 gal you might do 20% ever second week.

Steve

[Ruth]

I have 2 12g and 1 24g Nano tanks that I run successfully without skimming. Diligent water changes and rinsing of any sponges and maintenance of other media is definately required. I do run those expensive gadgets on my larger tanks but I know that some people have great success with no skimming on larger systems. I have not had that same experience so prefer to skim on larger systems.

[Bob I]

Bob, get off the wine or use your spell check :)

Bob so you are saying anyone who has a skimmer on a Small tank is silly? personally I don't care if you like skimmers or not or you run one or not but you can't call people silly because they run one on a small tank.

as for chem-pure it is not cheep actually I was very shocked by its price and you can build a ghetto skimmer for less than a jar of that. so I am not even going to comment on the saving money using chem-pure as I think it is bunk.

Skimmer are equipment, do you need one on a tiny tank... no. do you need one on any tank,... no. but you will be doing very large very frequent water changes. so what does a skimmer do? it allows you to save money by having another method of water cleaning besides pure water changes. does this mean you don't need to do water changes? ... no but it means instead of doing 80% every week on your 10 gal you might do 20% ever second week.

Steve


As I have always said every opinion is valid. IMO, and IME, any skimmer on any tank is a gadget that is not needed. You may argue with that, but it will not change my mind. In my system, I do not use a skimmer, nor do I change water on a regular basis. I do use Chemipure that I bought by the case for less than $5.00 per unit.
You may disagree all you want. but accord me the respect that everyone is entitled to.

[Samw]

I think the opinion that Steve was referring to was your opinion that everyone who uses a skimmer in a small tank is silly. I think the people who use skimmers in small tanks also are entitled to some respect as well.

[Bob I]

I think the opinion that Steve was referring to was your opinion that everyone who uses a skimmer in a small tank is silly. I think the people who use skimmers in small tanks also are entitled to some respect as well.

Sam when I look at my original post it states "in my humble opinion a skimmer on a small tank is silly" In my mind that says it is my opinion, and as such it is valid. You may accept it or discard it, but don't insult me. I said that if you want to waste money for a skimmer on a small tank, you are welcome to do that. I think I am still giving those who do that the required respect. I never did say that the person doing so is silly. I suppose the distinction between an action being seen as silly, and a person being silly is difficult to discern.
That is the problem with the printed word. Often intent is unknown. That is why the smilies on the old board will be missed by me.

[Samw]

That is why the smilies on the old board will be missed by me.

Bob, smilies are still there. You can find them in the Standard Editor. To use the Standard Editor, you have to go to the User Control Panel and change your options. :biggrin: :lol: :smile: :razz:

[Bob I]

Thanks Sam, I will have look to see if I can locate them.

[Bob I]

Okay great, I have found them. :multi: Now I wonder how many other people have missed them:question:

[KrazyKuch]

:n00b: to this new system.....I believe it's not neccessary to have a skimmer on any tank but after having one and seeing what it pulls out of the water I would never go without one on any tank!!!

[Ruth]

KK I think that "most" people do run a skimmer on their tanks. I chose not to on my smaller tanks because water changes are a snap. Personally on anything larger than a 30g tank I would run a skimmer because you are right, they do pull a lot of smelly stuff out of the tank. Bob and others have success with not using them and also not doing significant water changes. I think that is great and just show the vast range of experiences in this hobby. I have tried to run a 77g with a crap skimmer that might as well not have been there and canister filters - it was an algea and cyno machine and actually made me quit the hobby for a year it was so frustrating. Others such as Bev and Bob and more have great success keeping reefs using these methods so who is to say it is wrong or silly or whatever.
As far as "silly" goes - we are all silly - imagine trying to keep creatures in glass boxes that really belong in the ocean simply for our own enjoyment - now that is silly!

[StirCrazy]

I do use Chemipure that I bought by the case for less than $5.00 per unit.


How much does 1 unit do volume wise? when I was looking at it here it was something like 79.00 for enuf to do 100 gal for 6 months.

Steve

[Bob I]

:n00b: to this new system.....I believe it's not neccessary to have a skimmer on any tank but after having one and seeing what it pulls out of the water I would never go without one on any tank!!!

In a sense we are hijacking this thread, but what the H, it increases my post count.

I think you have hit on what a skimmer actually does. Skimmers basically interrupt natural decomposition of proteinaceous materials by removing large protein molecules before the natural dissolution of those molecules into nitrogenous compounds occur. That is all they do. Natural laws of physics state that they cannot increase the oxygen content of the water. (sorry Sam, still can't buy your argument}. They do not remove Phospates, or other contaminants.

That is all I will say on this matter. If anyone can prove that any of this is not true, I would welcome the input, but please make it proof NOT just opinion.:mrgreen:

[Samw]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php

"Figure 1 shows the oxygen dynamics of Tank 1 in operation without a skimmer. Figure 2 shows the oxygen dynamics of Tank 2 with a skimmer in operation."

"I had assumed (wrongfully) that oxygen was maintained at high levels through the use of two powerheads that agitated the water's surface. However, once the lights went out and photosynthesis stopped, oxygen levels dropped quickly from a high of 78.7% of saturation to a hypoxic low of 16% of saturation. "

Notice the skimmer took the tank from 16% to about 80+% with only the addition of a skimmer and all else constant in Tank 1. In Tank 3, the tank wasn't oxygen starved at any time so it was more difficult to see the effect of the skimmer since his tank was never low in DO even at night. It would have been useful to see the effect of a skimmer on a large tank that has a low DO level at night.

I think some people have low DO levels at night and never know it. It seems that clownfish can survive at 16% for some time whereas I'm quite sure angels can't. This explains why I've lost angels the morning after I forgot to turn my venturi back on in a skimmerless tank.

[Bob I]

How much does 1 unit do volume wise? when I was looking at it here it was something like 79.00 for enuf to do 100 gal for 6 months.

Steve

Directly from the container. 5 to 40 gallons - one unit.
40 to 100 gallons - two units.

For a while Dafishguy was selling a case for $100.00, and he did not charge shipping.

Oh BTW it would be enough, not enuf.:razz::razz:

[Bob I]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php

"Figure 1 shows the oxygen dynamics of Tank 1 in operation without a skimmer. Figure 2 shows the oxygen dynamics of Tank 2 with a skimmer in operation."

"I had assumed (wrongfully) that oxygen was maintained at high levels through the use of two powerheads that agitated the water's surface. However, once the lights went out and photosynthesis stopped, oxygen levels dropped quickly from a high of 78.7% of saturation to a hypoxic low of 16% of saturation. "

Notice the skimmer took the tank from 16% to about 80+% with only the addition of a skimmer and all else constant in Tank 1. In Tank 3, the tank wasn't oxygen starved at any time so it was more difficult to see the effect of the skimmer since his tank was never low in DO even at night. It would have been useful to see the effect of a skimmer on a large tank that has a low DO level at night.

I think some people have low DO levels at night and never know it. It seems that clownfish can survive at 16% for some time whereas I'm quite sure angels can't. This explains why I've lost angels the morning after I forgot to turn my venturi back on in a skimmerless tank.

There you go, you have the figures, but unfortunately natural laws in the world do not support them. Gas exchange at the water surface occurs due to surface agitation period:exclaim: That is how it happens in the oceans, which do not have skimmers BTW.
As far as Angels go, I have a Heraldi now, and have had many in the past. I have a small tank without a skimmer, and have never had an angel gasping for air. Let alone lose one.
Unfortunately this argument will never end because you have your beliefs, and I mine. As long as I am successful I will never change.

[Samw]

Come on Bob. No one is arguing that oxygenation doesn't occur at the surface. That's what the skimmer does. If you are going to say that the skimmer doesn't add oxygen to your tank, at least have a way to back it up by having some measurements before and after. If you can measure your tank before a skimmer is added and after a skimmer is added and show that it doesn't raise a tank's DO from a low level to a high level, then you'll have a point.

If you think that I am saying oxygenation does not occur at the surface, then you are arguing for the sake of arguing since that is not what anyone (myself nor Eric) is saying at all.

You can have an Angel in a small tank without a skimmer of course. There is more than 1 way to oxygenate a tank. Just because you can keep a whole angel in a small tank without a skimmer doesn't mean that skimmers don't oxygenate tanks.

[Bob I]

Thinking about it I have come to realise that there is surface agitation inside a skimmer. If the water that has been agitated gets into the tank, I will have to graciously admit I was wrong.

[Johnny Reefer]

....I do use Chemipure that I bought by the case for less than $5.00 per unit. ....
How many units in a case?

Thanx much,

[StirCrazy]

I think you have hit on what a skimmer actually does. Skimmers basically interrupt natural decomposition of proteinaceous materials by removing large protein molecules before the natural dissolution of those molecules into nitrogenous compounds occur.


ok so by doing this is it not also removing the organic phosphates bound in that organic mater and preventing it from being released as inorganic phosphate during the decay process?

so basically a skimmer is removing phosphates.




That is all they do. Natural laws of physics state that they cannot increase the oxygen content of the water. (sorry Sam, still can't buy your argument}.


actually a bubbler in a tank will raise the O2 content also as every little bubble made is now a water/air surface interface. while not as efficient as having a turbulent water surface it still increases O2 levels, a skimmer is just basically a bubbler on steroids and does a very good job of increasing O2


They do not remove Phospates, or other contaminants.


See your first statement, do you not consider decaying organic matter contaminants? but yes aside from Phosphates they do remove several other things.




That is all I will say on this matter. If anyone can prove that any of this is not true, I would welcome the input, but please make it proof NOT just opinion.:mrgreen:

Ok there was a test done on various skimmers and they effectiveness of removing phosphates, metals, ect from the tank water. I will find it for you to read. no time right now as I have to get out of here and Finnish my Christmas shopping:mrgreen:

Steve

[Bob I]

actually a bubbler in a tank will raise the O2 content also as every little bubble made is now a water/air surface interface. while not as efficient as having a turbulent water surface it still increases O2 levels, a skimmer is just basically a bubbler on steroids and does a very good job of increasing O2

Steve

I am afraid that may sound good, but there is a problem with it. If there was an air/water interface all the bubbles would disappear before reaching the surface. There is a serious flaw in that argument.

And now that I see that there is agitation within the skimmer so theoretically oxygen gets taken up, I am bothered by another thing. How about the oxygen depletion caused by beating the crap out of the water with an impeller causing the bubbles in the first place:question:
I just cannot see how there would be in increase in oxygen content.:razz:

[Bob I]

How many units in a case?

Thanx much,

There are twelve units in a case. However I was wrong about the price. He charged me $100.00 for the case. that comes to $8.33/each.:mrgreen:

[christyf5]

I am afraid that may sound good, but there is a problem with it. If there was an air/water interface all the bubbles would disappear before reaching the surface. There is a serious flaw in that argument.

And now that I see that there is agitation within the skimmer so theoretically oxygen gets taken up, I am bothered by another thing. How about the oxygen depletion caused by beating the crap out of the water with an impeller causing the bubbles in the first place:question:
I just cannot see how there would be in increase in oxygen content.:razz:

How does an impeller deplete oxygen? Is it organic and has a requirement for oxygen?? Sheesh Bob, where do you come up with your ideas?

Actually a skimmer serves to oxygenate the water by producing fine bubbles that take longer to reach the surface thereby increasing the contact time with water and increasing the oxygen content of the water vs. larger bubbles which jet to the surface much faster and have a more limited contact time.

Christy :)

[Bob I]

How does an impeller deplete oxygen? Is it organic and has a requirement for oxygen?? Sheesh Bob, where do you come up with your ideas?
If you don't understand what I am getting at, I will not try explain further. I have hijacked this thread enough.

Actually a skimmer serves to oxygenate the water by producing fine bubbles that take longer to reach the surface thereby increasing the contact time with water and increasing the oxygen content of the water vs. larger bubbles which jet to the surface much faster and have a more limited contact time.

Christy :)
Again you don't understand the premise. I cannot explain it better, but no it will not happen. Simple concept known as surface tension keeps it from happening.

[StirCrazy]

.
Again you don't understand the premise. I cannot explain it better, but no it will not happen. Simple concept known as surface tension keeps it from happening.

Ok Bob, got you some info on it from a pond page.

"Mechanical aerators agitate water to produce liquid/air contact, while underwater diffusers introduce bubbles from a depth to achieve oxygen transfer and mixing. Bubble type aeration systems are replacing many mechanical aerators because of their low maintenance, reliability, safety, flexibility and overall efficiency. They excel where small amounts of aeration are needed in many locations. Bubble aerators are also better at removing gases, such as ammonia and carbon dioxide. Diffusers are made to deliver either coarse (approximately 6 mm), medium (approximately 3 mm), or fine (approximately 1 mm) air bubbles. Coarse-bubble systems require the lowest air pressure and are very resistant to clogging, but are about a third as efficient as medium-bubble systems in transferring oxygen to the water. The medium-bubble diffuser requires only slightly higher air pressure, but its superior oxygen transfer more than compensates for the increase in maintenance due to occasional clogging. The fine-bubble diffuser’s superior oxygen transfer usually does not compensate for its higher-pressure requirement and much more frequent clogging."



SO as you can see a bubbler type set up is the most efficient at raising O2 levels and driving off other gasses, and the smaller the bubble the higher the efficiency.

here is a chart on the different amounts of O2 that can be put into the water by different aerators. air compressor liner type is you basic bubble stone on a fish tank, and the water pump with venturi is your basic skimmer.

Aerator
Flow rate
Watts used
Grams O2 per hour
Cost per 100 grams
Lazy Stream 12" drop
10gpm
150watts
1.2
$1.26
Babbling Stream 12" drop
10 gpm
150
2.4
.63
Waterfall 12" drop straigh into pond
10gpm
150
1.4
1.05
Waterfall 2-24" drop fallng on rocks
10 gpm
200
3.1
.65
Fountain
5 gpm
100
1.6
.63
water pump with venturi
4 gpm
100
4.0
.25
Air compressor linear type 1
1 cfm
30
4
$0.06



Don't know what else to say to you on the Bob aside from please read up on it if you are having a hard time understanding it as what you are thinking isn't true.

Steve