HELP! DID I POISON MYSELF??

[Beverly]

Was working with frags this afternoon (scored big :biggrin: ) and was as careful as I could be not to get goo from one frag onto the other. I continually wiped my hands on a wet towel or washed them in tapwater. I went outside for a smoke inbetween doing frags in two tanks.

Now, over an hour later, my lips are a little numb, I'm a bit dizzy, and my head kinda hurts. Dang, I think I poisoned myself :exclaim: I'm thinking I should go to emergency, but I'm about to have supper and am waiting for someone to pick up some livestock.

What other symptoms will I have if I actually have poisoned myself?

HELP!!!!!

[whaase]

Was working with frags this afternoon (scored big :biggrin: ) and was as careful as I could be not to get goo from one frag onto the other. I continually wiped my hands on a wet towel or washed them in tapwater. I went outside for a smoke inbetween doing frags in two tanks.

Now, over an hour later, my lips are a little numb, I'm a bit dizzy, and my head kinda hurts. Dang, I think I poisoned myself :exclaim: I'm thinking I should go to emergency, but I'm about to have supper and am waiting for someone to pick up some livestock.

What other symptoms will I have if I actually have poisoned myself?

HELP!!!!!

Man I'm a smoker too and even I could not resist this one! You had a smoke and you are wondering if you poisoned yourself? :biggrin:
Seriously, though, were the frags zoo's? They are the only ones I've ever heard of doing anything to you. But even that I think is a very rare case. If you start feeling worse I'd go to the hospital, no point taking a risk.

Walter

[G1GY]

If it get's worse go to the doctor and forget everything else!!!

I don't know anything about this kind of thing, but better to be safe if you think there's a chance of poisoning.

Some corals can have very strong toxins.

I hope that you just have the flu or something.

[vanreefer]

I agree if you start to feel worse go to the ER but please don't drive yourself... if you have call an ambulance.
Smoking kills but poison kills faster
Dano

[Aquattro]

Bev? You there?

[Chad]

:( I hope all is well.. I think in general numbness and light headed is a sign of poisoning with Zoo's.

Everyone PLEASE use gloves and if possible a face shield when fragging zoo's!! please please please.. save yourself the worry and possible poisoning.

[Rikko]

I've seen a few accounts of RC of zoo poisoning and most people said they felt fine after a few hours without medical intervention... Generally numbness, metallic taste in the mouth, I think weakness?

[Beverly]

Did not work with zoos. Worked with some monti caps and some other species of sps, and two species of leather.

Ate supper, but am feeling not much better. Beth, get here quick :exclaim: Will have husband take me to ER if I'm feeling worse, which I kind of am :eek:

[Beverly]

Going to hospital now. Will let you know what happens later.

[G1GY]

I hope all is well Bev.

[Willow]

oh dang, hope all is well.

[vanreefer]

Hope all is well
Thanks for getting a ride I work at a hospital and the # of people that crash and kill themselves or someone else :evil: on the way to the hospital is staggering :eek:
Again I hope you are feeling better
all the best
Dano

[Salinity Now]

Hi my name is Terry and I just finished reading this post. I'm not sure how much help I'll be now that Bev has already sought medical attention, but I will post the following information from "Eric H. Borneman's - Aquarium Corals, Selection, Husbandry and Natural History".

"Soft corals that already have some physical defenses to predation, such as sharp spicules and retractable polyps, generally prove less toxic (or as toxic) as those without physical defenses. Still, exceptions are common, with Lemnalia and Sarcophyton species consistently very high in toxicity and Cladiella, Capnella and Anthelia species being consistently low.

The post mentioned that Bev didn't work with Zoo's, but I thought it would be prudent to also post the following warning from his book for any one else attempting zoo fragmentation.

"NEUROTOXIN WARNING
All species of Palythoa, and most related zoanthids including the Protopalythva species, produce achernical called palytoxin in their mucus and gonads. Indigenous Pacific tribes used this neuromuscular agent to tip speats in order to paralyze prey animals and enemies. This is a potent toxin and can be deadly to humans. Certain fishes that prey on zoanthids, like filefishes, may even be responsible for bringing palytoxin into the food chain.
The heavy mucus coat of these species must be treated with great respect. It is important to wear hand protection when touching these animals—especially if the handler has any breaks in his or her skin.
An aquarist from Washington once contacted me for the name of a marine medical facility. He had been feeling very ill for several days after handling some Protopa-lythoa. polyps and was concerned about the possibility of palytoxin poisoning. I gave him the number of several contacts, but felt that if it were palytoxin, he probably wouldn't have been able to communicate with me. As it turns out, he had acquired a Vibrio infection, probably from the extensive populations of Vibrio that inhabit coral mucus. Another aquarist inadvertently put his fingers in his mouth after handling Palythna polyps. His mouth became numb, and for some time afterward he experienced a metallic aftertaste. He may have been very fortunate to escape with such minor symptoms.
While many aquarists routinely handle corals, including zoanthids, without incident, it is still a very good idea to maintain a safe health protocol when working with these animals. Wearing gloves or making sure that no breaks in the skin are present is a start. Proper hand-washing, even using a bactericidal soap (such as Hibi-clens), is also a good precaution."

References:
Aquarium Corals Selection, Husbandry and Natural History
Eric H. Borneman

[sumpfinfishe]

I hope your doing better Bev :eek:

I have done a fair amount of fragging, not just at my home but also for a friend who runs and coral farm, advice-always wear gloves(latex) I use a new pair every time I frag a different species or if I'm doing a large amount I will use the dish washing type gloves as there thicker.
I have been extra careful ever since I read that thread on RC about the guy who lost his Golden Lab after he licked up some zoo juice :exclaim:

take care

[Murminator]

Been there done that :eek: after the fever and nasuea and a few bags of I.V. everythings will be ok
Hope your feeling better soon :mrgreen: keep us posted

[andestang]

Hope you feel better Bev, that is a scary feeling. Been bitten by one of my Turantula's and that was weird, but at least I knew the cause :confused: Also didn't realize zoo's could be that hazardest to handle :eek: Keep us in tune - good luck

[ed99]

I seem to remember seeing a post on ReefCentral about somebody who had a dog that ate his zoos that he had on the floor while cleaning the tank. I think the dog was in rough shape. The mouth and lips can absorb some substances pretty easily so I guess this is a warning to be careful when working with the tank.

[Beverly]

Am back from ER. Am tired, but feeling MUCH better. Will explain in the morning.

[medic_eva]

Really glad to hear you are feeling better, Bev!!!

[hockey nut]

Hope it was nothing serious. Glad to hear your back!

[takphan]

glad to see you back
get well soon

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Thank goodness you took the safe route & went to the hospital. Hope you have a speedy & full recovery Bev.

Anthony

[Delphinus]

Hope you're OK there Bev!!!

[Beverly]

First, I want to thank everyone who posted to this thread :smile: Your kind words of support are priceless to me. Thank goodness for the great, caring people on this board :cool:

Yesterday:

11:40 am got home with five bags of various soft and sps frags from one of my old neighbours. He had lots of frags on his sandbed that had fallen off the mother colonies. Set up a 2.5g in the kitchen to keep them heated and aerated while I had lunch and did a couple of errands. Before going into the 2.5g, inspected each frag and broke off damaged, dead or otherwise problematic portions of each coral. As I was in the kitchen, I could wash my hands between corals. Ate lunch, did errands, did not feel sick in any way.

2:30 - 3:30 pm moved 2.5g tank to dining room table where I had towels and hand cloths to clean hands between mounting different species of corals. As I think back, may not have washed hands in tapwater very often, but did wipe them on the towels. During that time, went outside for a smoke break at least once.

3:30 - 4:15 pm frags all mounted and continued to work in 37g to get rocks back in right place. Dang, they never go back in the way they were just an hour earlier :evil:

4:15 pm Chris comes home and I'm beginning to feel numbness in lips. A bit later get slight headache, tongue feels numb, feel a bit dizzy. Just before supper, post that I might have poisoned myself.

5:00 pm eat supper while watching Desparate Housewives (love that nutty show :lol: ) taped from night before. Symptoms get worse. Can't type very easily, head hurts more, am dizzier, am slow at thinking, want to go to sleep.

6:15 pm get pm from person who was going to pick up livestock saying she can't come. No problem, post I'm going to ER, then leave.

6:30 pm get to ER. The place is packed :eek: At least an hour wait. Get dizzier, get sleepier, jaws and face numb, less able to think clearly, have a little trouble walking outside for another smoke (really gotta stop this smoking cr*p :exclaim: ). Harder to keep awake. Am thinking I might slip into a coma if I do. Might also become paralysed :eek:

8:30 pm am still in ER waiting room. Lots more people cram the place. Thinking hospital may not be the best place to go when sick :confused: Realize I am feeling better. Lips, tongue, face, jaws not numb anymore. Can move around more easily, am thinking more clearly. Still have headache, but know the worst is likely over :smile: Feel kind of silly being in ER now that I am feeling better, but still want to talk to doctor.

9:00 pm finally get into a patient room and have to put on dumb gown :rolleyes: Doctor comes in 20 minutes later. Asks me a few questions, has me do large and small motor skills tests, says he is looking for signs of stroke :eek: Dr says he has not ever heard of anyone dying from corals, and said several years ago he worked in South Asia among people who regularly came into contact with corals in their daily work.

10:00 pm get home, write quick note on thread, start kalk drips in tanks, go to bed.

Today:

Still have a bit of a headache. Motor skills are pretty good, but am a little weak. A little numbness in lips, but no numbness anywhere else. Am a little slow thinking (ah, what else is new :razz: ). But otherwise I am fine.

Things I have learned from this experience:

1. If working with frags, which I rarely do, either wear gloves or WASH HANDS VERY WELL after touching frags.

2. Even though ER was a VERY long wait and I got better while I was there, I'm glad I went. I could very well have developed more serious symptoms and would have already been in the right place for Drs to help me.

3. I have very good friends here on Canreef :cool: Thank you all for your support :exclaim:

[bluetang]

Great to hear your doing well. Dont scare us like that... :biggrin:
Now that the human side of things is better. How are those Frags :lol:

[danny zubot]

Wow Bev! Thats quite an ordeal, glad you are feeling better though. Question, did you get the impression that the doctors didn't really give the coral poisoning theory the attention it deserved? I've had conversations about this sort of thing with various medical personal, and they kind of brushed it off as being silly. At least thats the impression I got. Either they were correct that coral poisoning isn't as serious as we think or they aren't as informed. What do you think?

[ridder]

Good to hear your feeling better today, Bev!

[Beverly]

Bluetang,

Frags are doing great :biggrin: Better colours in my tank than in the tank of origin :cool:

Over the weekend, we broke down the 37g. Used the rock from it along with the new, cured LR to set up both the 67g and the 37g. Both look great. Corals, fish, inverts all doing fine :biggrin: Will post pics in a few days, I hope.

Tonight and tomorrow, the 120g is coming down. Gonna see if we can get rid of the snail-sliming killer worm. Also think there may be another large bristle-type of worm in there that's been doing snail damage, too :evil:

Danny,

Not sure how seriously the Dr took the coral toxin thing. He told me lips and fingers will tingle if a person hyperventilates, but I told him, if anything, respiration rate was low and I was certainly not hyperventilating. He did mention stings from fire coral, though I haven't a clue what fire coral is. Certainly don't have any or seen any for sale ever.

[Delphinus]

Very relieved to hear you are feeling better today Bev.

[sumpfinfishe]

What were you smoking :mrgreen:

[andestang]

What were you smoking :mrgreen: :lol: Glad you are OK Bev :cool:

[Willow]

hyperventilating. He did mention stings from fire coral, though I haven't a clue what fire coral is. Certainly don't have any or seen any for sale ever.

OA had a hunk of fire coral, when we helped them move i think rob got wacked by it a bit and had a rash for a week after still.

[Son Of Skyline]

That's a pretty freaky story Bev...glad you're ok! I've never thought of getting ill from any of my corals but now I'll be more careful.

[Jaws]

Glad to hear you're feeling better Bev. If nothing else, this will be a warning to other reefers to be aware that this can happen when working with your corals.

[Tarolisol]

Wow thats crazy.

Whenever i am messing with SPS frags after words my fingers get all swollen for a couple days and feel like i had been stung by a bee a couple days before, all itchy and hard. As i type right now my fingers are swollen. But it always go away eventully.

[Beverly]

What were you smoking :mrgreen:

Matinee Extra Light :rolleyes: And, I inhaled :razz:

[muck]

Glad to hear you are ok now Bev!! :biggrin:

[scotchy]

Glad to hear you are alright Bev. While you were at the hospital you should have snagged some of those rubber gloves they have there. Thats what I use. At least we all leaned a valuable lesson over this. Smoking is bad for our health.



Scott

[danny zubot]

Another smoking related illness? :razz:

[Zerandise]

yeah i got 30+ welts on my right forarm. the last of them are just going away now and it was a couple weeks ago.

[Funky_Fish14]

Glad to hear you are ok now Bev! Must have been nervewracking!

Im really careful about what I touch when dealing with corals. I get as much done as possible while my hands are in the tank(so I dont have to dip them in multiple times) and I have papertowel ready when I take them out, then I imediately go wash my arms off.

Chris

[AJ_77]

Good story, Bev - and a great ending. :biggrin:

I almost expected you to say that when you noticed something was amiss, you automatically rinsed your face in outgoing change water, turkey-basted the affected area, etc etc... :mrgreen:

[christyf5]

Ya after my episode I have learned, hands do not go near the face after doing anything in the tank!

Skin is a great barrier to most things but any mucous membranes ie. eyes, lips, mouth is a great place for toxins to get across fast.

Glad to hear you're okay.

No smoking while doing tank stuff!!! :razz:



Christy :)

[Rikko]

Yikes, Bev! Glad it all worked out - I've heard a couple of horror stories on RC of doctors stamping their feet and insisting it can't be the fish tank until things got really ugly. I think our local breed doesn't want to admit they don't know anything about tropical diseases.. :(

Anybody else find they get a reaction on their skin when working in the tank? It never seems to fail that when I'm doing a water change and in the tank for more than a minute or two, I get a nasty rash on the underside of the forearm and it always takes a week or so to go away. I'm never brushing against corals there or scraping the sides so I can only assume it's something nasty floating around in the water.

[Richer]

Glad to hear that you're alright Bev.

If you're thinking about using gloves, take a look at G&E Pharmacy... they sell boxes of 100 shoulder length polyethylene gloves for $12.50. The gloves don't last long, but at that price, its a pretty good deal. They're not thick, so its easy to handle more delicate things like corals with them on.

-Rich

[Chad]

Glad to hear that you're alright Bev.

If you're thinking about using gloves, take a look at G&E Pharmacy... they sell boxes of 100 shoulder length polyethylene gloves for $12.50. The gloves don't last long, but at that price, its a pretty good deal. They're not thick, so its easy to handle more delicate things like corals with them on.

-Rich

I have been looking for those types of gloves.. do you have a phone number? so I can see if they ship or something.

Thanks!

[StirCrazy]

Bev, what you described is exactly what Anthony Califo did to himself 3 times, he tells it after the fact as an amusing story (even better hearing him tell it in person that from reading his book) but he got his from giant sun corals (which are one of the more toxic ones)

Steve

[Richer]

I have been looking for those types of gloves.. do you have a phone number? so I can see if they ship or something.

Thanks!

G & E Pharmacy
7326 82 Avenue Northwest, Edmonton, AB T6B0G2
(780) 469-7667

Also try a vet supply place for a local source. I believe these gloves are used by vets and farmers.

-Rich

[Beverly]

I almost expected you to say that when you noticed something was amiss, you automatically rinsed your face in outgoing change water, turkey-basted the affected area, etc etc...

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[Doug]

Glad to hear it turned ok fine Bev. I did a quick read yesterday morning, before I had to leave for the day.

I have had finger swelling and numbness from handling rock, but never corals yet. I do try to wear gloves, most times. Anyhow, just glad to hear your fine.

[Beverly]

Have never worn gloves when working in my tanks over the past half decade. Never had anything but an itchy bump or two on my fingers while in my tanks. Heck, we even half tore down our 120g yesterday to find that snail-sliming worm, took smoke breaks and are both fine today. Was a little more careful to wash hands before smoke breaks, though. One day gonna quit, one day gonna quit :exclaim:

Anyway, didn't find that freaking worm. Even did a 2 hour long bath in very high alk, very low salinity water. Only found two crabs that got the old spear through the body :evil: Was definitely in a killing mood yesterday. If we had found the worm, we had a needle-tipped syringe filled with vinegar ready to inject :2gunfire:

Decided that since we have no idea which rock the worm was in, of the rocks we worked with yesterday, only one went back in the 120g. The others went into the 20g. Will wait a few days to see if any snails are dead in the 120g. If not, we will add another rock every 5-7 days from the 20g to the 120g until dead snails turn up again. The last rock to be placed in the tank will hopefully be our worm rock. Will boil the rock, cure it and place it back in the 120g.

Of course, the evil worm could be in the other stack of rock we didn't work with yesterday, in which case, we're back to the drawing board :confused:

[Matt]

Bev, first let me say I'm glad you're well. I somehow missed this thread. Pretty scary experience, I imagine.

Rich,


G & E Pharmacy
7326 82 Avenue Northwest, Edmonton, AB T6B0G2
(780) 469-7667


-Rich

Isn't that place a gas? The oddest assortment of products, and busy, busy, busy. You can get your prescription filled, buy some tongue depressors (.02 each), pick out a nice bullwhip, buy your dogfood (cheap) and get a tiki torch, all in one place. I'm expecting them to add picture framing and a fresh bakery some day.

Matthew