euthanize fish?

[Willow]

how do you humanly euphonize a fish? i have a clown that is having some major problems and i think the best thing would be to euphonize him.

[Jack]

In the freezer with a bit of tank water.

[4ptbuck]

net him, then flick him 'tween the eye

[Willow]

In the freezer with a bit of tank water.

ok it's sad, he's in the frezzer. :cry:

[rickjames]

Clove oil (puts them to sleep) and then alcohol, from what I read. I have to do the same thing to my clown, he is screwed :eek:

Do a search on "euthanize" and "fish" in google, should find some articles.

Freezer doesn't kill them fast apparently.... :sad:

[Invigor]

it puts them to a soft sleep :)

[UnderWorldAquatics]

if your not saving them for a trophy mont, chop thier heads off and be done with it, most of the ways mentioned are nothing but a slow death....
Would you want to have your last hours freezing your ass off in the freezer, or crying your eyes out from clove oil, sometimes what "some" call barbaric means, are in reality a quick and painless means to an end.....

[AJ_77]

do you have a cat?

[Willow]

comeone please we are talking about a pet here, not a trout. have some respect.

[AndyL]

Last hours? You've never culled much have you?

Fish in minimal quantities of water - into the freezer - are dead in very short order (but don't forget about them, wives tend to object to fish-sicles). And they don't generally freak out, they are cold blooded - as they get cold they just start getting real slow - then they stop breathing. Done.

Culling FW angels lately, I've taken on a friends tactic - straight into a bucket of ice/water. Dead in seconds.

Andy

[Xtasia]

yipes.... you guys are cold..

I've done some research on this topic myself and have not come up with an answer yet....

I heard that flushing them live is cruel coz they live for a while and struggle in pollution, chemicals and cold cold water.

Some fish have survived being frozen and thawed... so I didn't like that.

Suggestions to slam the fish against a wall in a ziplock (this sounds cruel)

cutting off their head with a sharp knife... (quick and painless but not something I can do. too much death on my part.)

[Aquattro]

litre of water, 2 alka seltzers. nighty night. While they're asleep, whack 'em on the head.
The quick "trout" method really is the best.....for the fish...

[UnderWorldAquatics]

comeone please we are talking about a pet here, not a trout. have some respect.

if my dog or cat was suffering to the point that most peoples fish are at when the owner finally decides to do something about it, I would not put my dog in the freezer, I wouldnt drown him, I would most likely take him to the woods immediadly and shoot him or cut his throat/sever his spine.....

Call me a barbarian, I would be doing it out of love for my pet....

I dont consider prolonging suffering, having respect....

[Rikko]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/faustus/nicoldaquaria/euthanasia.htm

[UnderWorldAquatics]

outside of using MS-222 which I use for a mild anesthetic to calm fish, that was a little ridiculous, no offense folks, but we are talking about fish here. I couldnt possibly dream of putting that much concern into a pet fishes death before I took in a homeless person and took care of them with half that much worrying.... I love fish alot, more than most people can fathom, but were talking about fish that would get gulped down by the next larger fish the second they displayed any signs of weakness....


dont take offense by my comments please, Im young, and heavily medicated.... :mrgreen:

[Samw]

Freezer method seems like a slow and stressful death. I'd give it to someone with a lionfish (assuming a lionfish can catch a clown). Death by predation might not be quick either but it seems more natural for me.

[DEAD_BY_DAWN]

I just wack them on the head with a blunt tool,dead in less than a second.

[sumpfinfishe]

I have done this twice and it's no fun, never the less I don't want to put any added stress on an animal as it dies- so I simply put the fish in a ziplock bag that is not sealed and just use a solid object-done!

[j83]

Apparently club soda works good. Just puts them to sleep. Read it somewhere - not sure where tho.

[Rikko]

Somehow I think carbonic acid and CO2 bubbles sizzling all over aren't a terribly peaceful way to go.

[monza]

So the cold method is mean? How about boiling water... but seriously I once had an over heating issue, took out my tank and I was told they would have felt no pain. There body temp. rises they go into a comma type state and it's pretty much over. That was with a slow rise in temp. Boiling water I'd say they'd be done in a split second.

I've also read fish don't really feel pain the way humans do so I don't think it is a real issue. Whatever method makes 'you' more comfortable is the one to use I would guess.

Dave ( no... I have never tried the deliberate boil method)

[Rikko]

I hate that argument.. I can counter with a stupid philosophical argument that can't be argued against: nobody feels pain like I do. Mine really hurts, you guys just make noises and squeal but it's not like mine. "Pain" is the CNS informing the body in unsubtle terms that there is something happening that is threatening the organism. Whether or not it's "ow" for fish or something else, it's still that signal.

BTW, if anybody read that link I posted on page 1, it suggests freezing water for tropical fish and boiling water for coolwater fish (like goldfish and carp). I did the freezing method with a couple of discus that were doing the typical "I'm a stupid discus and wanna take a year to die" thing.. I threw an ice cream bucket of water in the freezer until it had about an inch of ice on the surface, then broke it away and plopped the fish in. He twitched once. Apparently the enormous shock will actually blast their nervous system instantaneously, but that claim is about as strong as fish not feeling pain, or DEAD_BY_DAWN being human.

[DEAD_BY_DAWN]

The truth is i pay a midget $4.75 to bite there heads off and spit them at me.

[jws444]

comeone please we are talking about a pet here, not a trout. have some respect.

if my dog or cat was suffering to the point that most peoples fish are at when the owner finally decides to do something about it, I would not put my dog in the freezer, I wouldnt drown him, I would most likely take him to the woods immediadly and shoot him or cut his throat/sever his spine.....

Call me a barbarian, I would be doing it out of love for my pet....

I dont consider prolonging suffering, having respect....


You're comparing a warm blooded animal to a cold blooded one. It's totally not the same. Fish do not shiver to death and die from hypothermia. Their metabolisms just slow down to compensate for the temperature and they literally just 'fall asleep.' Now shoving a dog into a freezer is another issue...

[AJ_77]

...and I got scolded for asking about a cat.

[DEAD_BY_DAWN]

Now shoving a dog into a freezer is another issue..
But take it from me its worth the extra $3.00 :biggrin:

[Aquattro]

I know my dog wouldn't fit in my freezer, so I'd have to whack him with a rock.
Anyone considered the quick journey to the floor from about shoulder height? That would be quick.

[DEAD_BY_DAWN]

Well i guess for those of you with small breads a packet of gravel would work quite well.

[Samw]

So the cold method is mean?

I'd say that fish can sense/feel temperature. I'm guessing that this prevents them from swimming towards non-tropical waters. If cold water doesn't stress them, then they would unknowingly migrate into cold or arctic waters (and die) which they clearly don't do. So that's why I think they would be stressed in the freezer before they die. I would agree with John and whack them on the head. I don't know about club soda. Its like being dunked into acid. shock shock. PH shock at least for a period of time before death.

[UnderWorldAquatics]

is it wrong that Im sitting here eating my oreo ice cream laughing hystericially..... :mrgreen:

[DEAD_BY_DAWN]

Yes your going to hell...

[Aquattro]

is it wrong that Im sitting here eating my oreo ice cream laughing hystericially..... :mrgreen:

Oreo icecream???mmmmmm....

[DEAD_BY_DAWN]

Oreo icecream???mmmmmm....
Brad please refrain from being obsene,kids visit this site to.....

[Rikko]

is it wrong that Im sitting here eating my oreo ice cream laughing hystericially..... :mrgreen:

Actually yes, that stuff will kill you.

[Troy F]

I know my dog wouldn't fit in my freezer, so I'd have to whack him with a rock.

I could hit mine with a rock and I believe he'd think it was foreplay.

Oh and for the fellow that mentioned midgets biting heads off fish; I believe they prefer "little people".

[BCWolfen]

Fish like all cold blooded animals or amphibians metabolism slows down as they get colder. IE I stop feeding my goldfish in the pond as winter approaches because they just don't eat. They get lethargic, slow down and slowly idle round near the bottom. As winter progresses they slow down even more to a 'near hibernation' state until spring. A fish put into the freezer in warm water will do the same. His metabolism slowing down until, in the case of a freezer, he quietly slides into sleep, coma, death. Quiet and calm no stress.

[Samw]

http://www.bvzs.org/euthansiaguidelinesfish.htm

British Veterinary Zoological Society

Guidelines for Acceptable Methods of Euthanasia for Zoo, Exotic Pet and Wildlife species

__________________________________________________ _________

British Veterinary Zoological Society , 7 Mansfield Street, London W1M 0AT, UK. http://www.bvzs.org


No. 2: Ornamental Fish

[SNIP]

Suggested methods of choice:
The following methods are rapidly effective and straightforward to perform.
· Overdose of a soluble anaesthetic agent added to the water (MS222, Benzocaine [in acetone /alcohol], Eugenol [clove oil])
· Intravenous overdose of anaesthetic agent, primarily pentobarbitone.
· Trauma sufficient to induce complete and instantaneous loss of brainstem activity (e.g. shooting, captive bolt, massive blunt trauma, cervical dislocation or fracture)
· Dropping into liquid nitrogen to provide near instantaneous complete freezing (individuals less than 1cm max diameter only)


Methods considered [b]unacceptable:
The following methods have been suggested for ornamental fish euthanasia in the past but should now be considered ineffective or unacceptable:
· 'Asphyxiation' (simple removal from water preventing respiratory exchange)
· Freezing (excepting method suggested above)
· Use of other anaesthetic agents added to the water (Pentobarbitone, Isofluorane, Halothane)
· Trauma (other than cranial & cervical trauma as described above)
· Carbon dioxide by non-commercial methods (Alka-seltzer® tablets, soda-stream® carbonation)

[Samw]

http://www.gsas.org/Articles/1998/heather-euthanasia.html

Greater Seattle Aquarium Society
Northwest Aquaria Article Archive

Title As You Wish: Euthanasia (Part 1)
by Heather Candelaria

[SNIP]

Pain is not a basic straight forward event, it is much more complex than I intend to go into right now, but the basic fact that is important to know is that pain generally occurs as a result of some sort of damage being done to the body or cells of an animal.

Pain evolved as a sort of warning system, to tell an organism that damage is occurring to its body and that evasive action is a good idea. Getting away from the source of the pain is therefore a very important drive directing all animals capable of feeling pain.

With this in mind, I would like to express my opinion about the `humane' and `painless' method of euthanizing a fish; the freezing method.


[SNIP]

By the time the cellular walls are bursting I’m pretty sure that the fish has taken its last gasp, but a great deal of damage (pain) occurs before death does.

I think the best way to put a fish out of its misery is the fastest way possible. Dropping Mr. Bubbles into a blender is not the nicest (or cleanest) method of euthanasia, but as far as Mr. Bubbles is concerned, it is all over with before he has time to even notice.

[sumpfinfishe]

Nice work Sam :exclaim:

[Aquattro]

Oh and for the fellow that mentioned midgets biting heads off fish; I believe they prefer "little people".

Midgets bite heads off little people?? That's just wrong.

[DEAD_BY_DAWN]

I could hit mine with a rock and I believe he'd think it was foreplay.
I'm not even going to comment on that one,but i will say it's one thing to love your dog,but thats a whole nother issue......

[DEAD_BY_DAWN]

Midgets bite heads off little people?? That's just wrong. :lol:

[Troy F]

Looks like I walked into a few on this topic.

[Edmonton Eskimo]

You know what I find amazing is that there is 3 pages of discussion on this and some very interesting comments :lol:

[Troy F]

I can't believe this topic even gets debated. At least our members have remained polite, I've seen this topic flame out of control on some of the other boards.

[BCWolfen]

Suggested methods of choice:
The following methods are rapidly effective and straightforward to perform.
· Overdose of a soluble anaesthetic agent added to the water (MS222, Benzocaine [in acetone /alcohol], Eugenol [clove oil])
· Intravenous overdose of anaesthetic agent, primarily pentobarbitone.
· Trauma sufficient to induce complete and instantaneous loss of brainstem activity (e.g. shooting, captive bolt, massive blunt trauma, cervical dislocation or fracture)
· Dropping into liquid nitrogen to provide near instantaneous complete freezing (individuals less than 1cm max diameter only)


Methods considered unacceptable:
The following methods have been suggested for ornamental fish euthanasia in the past but should now be considered ineffective or unacceptable:
· 'Asphyxiation' (simple removal from water preventing respiratory exchange)
· Freezing (excepting method suggested above)
· Use of other anaesthetic agents added to the water (Pentobarbitone, Isofluorane, Halothane)
· Trauma (other than cranial & cervical trauma as described above)
· Carbon dioxide by non-commercial methods (Alka-seltzer® tablets, soda-stream® carbonation)

WOW, was I wrong!!!

[AndyL]

It depends on the people involved really, and their knowledge levels.

I've seen some boards where people come up with the rule that euthanasia is just plain wrong. But on boards populated by breeders and those with strong knowledge - it's generally a different answer.

Basically what it comes down to - is that the best method is the one that works best for the individual involved. Personally, I don't have a problem pulling out the cutting board if needed - but I generally perfer ice water for small fish (They've stopped breathing and moving within a second of hitting the water), larger fish, I prefer to ziplock them (in water) and put them in the freezer (We used to have a freezer supplied by hagen-dazs the first fish I put down that way - I watched, he went peacefully - no thrashing, just basically went to sleep, after 10 minutes or so he was gone).

A lot of my FW angels got culled on this last batch courtesy of the eel, wrasse and lion fish. Maybe not the nicest method - but it was good protein for the eaters - and the eatee's were put out of their misery within seconds of hitting the saltwater.

Culling/Euthanasia is an unfortunately needed/required part of our hobby on occasion. The debate over how best to do it will be with us forever, as we can't all have containers of liquid nitrogen etc at our disposal. And some of our members will always have weak stomachs, or great attachment to their pets.

Andy

[UnderWorldAquatics]

I guess my years in the business end of this hobby have led me to not grow as attached to most of the fish I see dying, and I just simply put them out of their misery as soon as possible. Cervical dislocation, or cutting their head of in one quick motion works great if you have a heavy very sharp knife, and a leathered heart. Personally I have never agreed with the freezing method, always thought it was too long and drawn out. The MS222 works great but its expensive and I like to save it for tranport/surgery. Also I have used the shooting method with a couple of very large naso tangs and angels(high powered air handgun). And if the fish are smaller and I have predetors on hand, they dissapear real quick.

[Rikko]

(Note to self: Log out your account when John is nearby)

[Snappy]

Boy I've learned a lot from this....I thought Euthanasia was just talking about the child population in China :silly:

[Samw]

I guess my years in the business end of this hobby have led me to not grow as attached to most of the fish I see dying, and I just simply put them out of their misery as soon as possible. Cervical dislocation, or cutting their head of in one quick motion works great if you have a heavy very sharp knife, and a leathered heart. Personally I have never agreed with the freezing method, always thought it was too long and drawn out. The MS222 works great but its expensive and I like to save it for tranport/surgery. Also I have used the shooting method with a couple of very large naso tangs and angels(high powered air handgun). And if the fish are smaller and I have predetors on hand, they dissapear real quick.

Well, it appears that your thoughts mostly agree with what I've read. To me its also common sense. I wouldn't go through that much trouble as well. I won't go to buy MS222 or liquid nitrogen. Massive blunt trama (sufficient to induce complete and instantaneous loss of brainstem activity) works for me. Is that what they call the trout method? Anyhow, yeah, the rock or club way is the way to go.

[Samw]

Boy I've learned a lot from this....I thought Euthanasia was just talking about the child population in China :silly:


haha. Took me a few hours to figure that one out.