16" cube ideas

[Beermaster]

Okay here is the goal

I picked up a 16" cube to make a nano tank with

I want to have a sump/fuse ( going to use a 5-10gal tank) with a auto topoff

what i am having a little issue with is plumbing and building the overflow for it

i have a couple ideas, but having never done this before, could use a little guidance


I will post some pictures tonight or tommorow of some of my ideas


I am able to get the tanked drilled at my local glass shop (a couple good freinds own it)


thx in advance

Mark


P.S. I would love to somthing like Fish's tank or Newguy's

[mr_alberta]

If you want to do a hidden overflow (like Fish's old tank) then you will have to knotch a piece of the back glass out. Then silicone pieces of glass onto the back of the tank to make your overflow box.

It the tank a perfect cube? Or is it cube-ish?

[Beermaster]

its cube-ish


and i hear through the grapevine that your the man to talk to about auto topoff systems lol

[mr_alberta]

If you need one, I can make one! :mrgreen:

Post some of your ideas for your cube and I'll see if I can help you out on plumbing the thing.

[Beermaster]

Ok so building an external overflow, I would have to notch the back of that and attach the overflow to the outsde back glass correct?


what advantage does this give over building a overflow inside the tank. the issue i have is i wan this to be very clean looking with no real hardware visible

kinda like this but on a bigger scale

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/1185050228_008-med.jpg

man so many options to think about lol

[mr_alberta]

How many sides vieawable will the tank be?

I like the idea of a center overflow right in the middle of the tank (say 3"x3" and use the smaller Stockman style standpipes) and have your returns coming up through the bottom of the tank. The only problem with something like that is it is harder to aquascape and hide the overflow.

With an external overflow (with the glass notched out) you don't tank up any room within your tank. Therefore you have the full inside dimensions of the tank to work with for aquascaping. IMO it is a much cleaner look having only a little notched area in the back glass vs a partition in one of the corners.

[Beermaster]

With an external overflow (with the glass notched out) you don't tank up any room within your tank. Therefore you have the full inside dimensions of the tank to work with for aquascaping. IMO it is a much cleaner look having only a little notched area in the back glass vs a partition in one of the corners.

Okay i can argee with that! ok so if i go with the external overflow, i dont have to get my tank drilled? just notched right?
cutting the notch in, it this a difficult thing that i should take to the glass shop to get done, or can i do this with a glass cutter?

Building an overflow, this is somthing that i keep trying to research, but can find any real good plans out there, i have seen tonnes of examples but nothing really explaining on how to do it

this tank will be viewable from 3 angles most likly

sry for all the questons , i just wanna try to do this right

[mr_alberta]

Here's a picture I found that might be of some help:

http://www.ecotechmarine.com/bishop/tank_mod_overflow.jpg

This is not my tank, it's from someone on Reef Central. Anyway, you see how the back glass is notched and the external overflow box is made and attached to the tank. On extra precaution I would do is to the tank above would be to add Euro Bracing around the top of the tank just for a little more strength.

Also keep in mind that if you would like your return lines come in from the bottom of the tank (like in the picture you posted) you will need to run these lines from a closed loop or else your tank will completely drain in a power outage.

[Beermaster]

ok that looks like its ok to do

i dont have to put 3 holes in the overflow do i?

so then basicly an overfolw is just a glass/acrlyc box with a hole drilled in the bottom attached to the back of the tank
you attach this with silicone/glue or does it hang on the back?


now, is it better to have the holes in the bottom or on the back?

[mr_alberta]

i dont have to put 3 holes in the overflow do i?


While you don't need 3, you need at least 1 hole for a drain. It all depends on what you want to do and the size of your pumps.


so then basicly an overfolw is just a glass/acrlyc box with a hole drilled in the bottom attached to the back of the tank
you attach this with silicone/glue or does it hang on the back?
[quote]

If you tank is made of glass, then I would use glass for your overflow box. If it is acrylic, then use acrylic. The reason is silicone does not stick to acrylic. The overflow box is just a glass box siliconed onto the back pane of glass. You will only need 4 pieces of glass to make the overflow box.

[quote]now, is it better to have the holes in the bottom or on the back?

Again, this is personal preference. Some like returns coming from the back, others from the bottom. I personally like returns on the bottom because they are easier to hide. The drawback is you should only use bottom returns on closed loops so you don't drain your tank and flood your house in case of a power outtage. You also have to be more careful about weight distribution along the bottom of you tank and creating pressure points on the glass.

[muck]

now, is it better to have the holes in the bottom or on the back?

Again, this is personal preference. Some like returns coming from the back, others from the bottom. I personally like returns on the bottom because they are easier to hide. The drawback is you should only use bottom returns on closed loops so you don't drain your tank and flood your house in case of a power outtage. You also have to be more careful about weight distribution along the bottom of you tank and creating pressure points on the glass.
Im guessing he means the holes for the overflow. I have mine drilled out the back because my overflow box is internal. If I would have an external box I would go out the bottom. It takes up less room behind the tank and would look neater. I would consider the Herbie style overflow system. See the link below, its definately a good read. I believe Chad (Fish) uses this system for his nano and mine is a variation of it. It can help to create an almost absolutely quiet setup.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344892

[mr_alberta]

I think that Herbie style overflow require too much fiddling IMO. If you set your standpipe height correctly, you should almost be able to have a silent system without having to restrict the drains.

[Beermaster]

Okay i am going to build a external overflow, out of glass this weekend, how big should this be on a 16" back

i was thinking 8"X5"X10" (LxWXH) with 2 1" bulkheads

as for the closed loop, i am still reading on what that is :) and how to build it, that way i know where to drill the returns

as for notching the back, just use a glass cutter and go nuts or should i take it to my local glass shop and get them to cut it?


Mark

[Fish]

Hey Mark and everyone. Ryan is right, my tank at home has an external overflow box that is 10" long x 4" wide x 8" tall. The bottom of the box has two 1" bulkheads in the bottom. One of the bulkheads is the drain and the other has a 5" length of pvc coming up from it so that no water goes down it unless the drain bulkhead gets plugged and the water level rises (aka backup drain). The only other thing you need is to put a ball valve (or gate valve if you can find one) on your drain line and close to valve so that the drain flow matches the output of your pump and causes the water level in the overflow box to remain somewhere between your drain bulkhead and the top of the backup.
The result is no air going down the drain and therefore a silent overflow and sump. I hope this isn't too confusing, I came across the Herbie thread one night while I was tearing my hair out with gurgling and boiling stockman and dursos - it really works. And it also happens to be the cheapest, and easiest method as well! There really are no downsides to this moethod. The key is that you need two bulkheads though - although I would never recommend only one bulkhead no matter what kind of setup you have - always have a backup drain!
I did the work on my old 20H myself and can tell you that it was quite easy to cut the overflow and bulkhead holes with a dremmle and glass cutting bit. I took the tank outside and turned the hose on a little bit and let it flow over the surface I was cutting. I probably went a little too fast and cut the 8" slot in only 20mins. At no time did I feel worried about cracking the glass but I think I shortened the life of the dremmle bit by going that fast. If you'd like I can probably drum up some photos of the job I did. I would recommend cutting a straight slot out of the back and then siliconing egg crate over it instead of cutting notches in the glass like some people do.
My nano that you posted has the bulkeads hidden in the bottom so it is visible from all 4 sides. If you are doing as external overflow box (which I would do instead of internal), I'd recommend putting a sheet of black acrylic on the iside of the back wall so that you don't see the box and plumbing when you look from the front.

The closed loop is the easy part. Just decide how much flow you need in addition to your sump return - chose an external pump that will meet those needs - put an intake line in your tank which sucks water down to the pump and then put the outlet line back into the tank. All it is doing is drawing water out and then shooting it back in, in order to increase your turnover rate.
I hope this helps.

- Chad

[muck]

If you'd like I can probably drum up some photos of the job I did.
- Chad
Post em up Chad... Id be interested to see the work in progress. :biggrin:

[Beermaster]

yes please, i would love to see the pics as well


now for the closed loop, it just basicly takes water out of the tank and draws it through the pipe and back in?

ok so my queston is y?

man so much stuff to learn, but i do thank you all for the advice and i am glad i am taking my time to learn all of this first


Oh and the slot for the over flow, cut this in about 2-3" from the top of the tank? and around what 1" thick or more?

I like the idea of the slot over the notch myself

[Fish]

chou got it mang...

Bought the glass from a local glass shop, drilled the bulkhead holes and siliconed it together:

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/11851.jpg


Stuck it into onto the back of the tank:

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/11852.jpg

Here is what the slot looks like:

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/11853.jpg

Note. Make sure that you have rounded corners, not square, on the slot. It's supposed to prevent cracking in the corners.

- Chad

[Fish]

Here is what the overflow box looks like with the Herbie method:

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/1185045.jpg

Note, I have since taken out the short length of pcv - just a bare bulkhead on that side now. I have also closed the ballvalve a bit more so that the water level is a bit higher. See no air going down the drain so zero air sucking or gurgling sounds.

As for the closed loop, the reason you would use one is if you wanted more turnover in your main tank than you were willing to provide via sump. A 20X (very modest) turnover in a 16" cube would be about 350 gallons per hour. As long as your sump is big enough, this much flow going through would be fine. If you wanted a lot more flow though, you run the risk of sweeping microbubbles back into your main (some people also recommend that sumps/fuges should have lower flows - I don't fully agree though). A closed loop is an easy way to increase flow in your main tank with out having to stick powerheads inside. If I were you I would decide on a target turnover, then see if your sump return is enough to meet it after losses. If you are lacking, add a closed loop. In my 23gal, the return from my 20gal sump is 450gallons and I added a closed loop of 350 gallons per hour just because I was shooting for a high turnover rate.
- Chad

[Fish]

The tank that I'm talking about is featured in this thread:
http://www.canreef.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15116

By the way, I prefer the look of cube tanks and if I were to do it again I would go with one shaped like yours.
Cheers,
- Chad

[Beermaster]

Cool thx for the pics, it really shows me alot to go buy

i was checking out the other thread and whats all the PVC piping all on the back of the tank for?


and how do you figure out gph? i was planning on having a 15 to 20gal sump under the stand

[Fish]

No problem. The pvc on the back of my tank is my return outlets. I split my 1" sump return into two 3/4" outlets and my 3/4" closed loop into two 3/4" outlets. I know that it does look like a lot of pipes and I am considering reducing the closed loop to two 1/2" retuns and painting the plumbing black. The reason that I split my returns is because 800gallons per hour is a lot of flow in a 23gallon tank and I didn't want my livestock to get blown around like inside a washing machine. By splitting returns I am able to have 100% of the flow with only half of the velocity. There is less water coming out of each 3/4" exit than you would get out of a little maxijet nozle - the result is a really gentle water movement despite having tons of turnover.

Each pump will tell you what gph it is rated for. You can get an idea of losses
using this calculator:
http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

- Chad

[Murminator]

Was that just a regular 20g and you knocked the plastic trim off then notched it for and overflow? If so will that not cause stress on the silicone in the corners to rip apart? and split the tank open? or is the trim decorative? Just curious I think it a great alternative to drilling which I'm not to crazt about.

[Fish]

From what I learned the trim adds very little structural support. I should also
add that I have since replaced that tank with another that has thicker glass. I have a two year old that likes to hit things with whatever heavy object he can find. Under normal use I wouldn;t worry about cracking or splitting; however, there was a slight bowing.

- Chad

[Beermaster]

ok now what kind of pump should i be looking at?

one of my suppliers carrys little giant pump, and being that we spend around $1m with them every year, i can get a good price on these


now basicly what i am thinking is that i wont need more then 500gph to move water from the sump to the tank

but could be wront there, would it be better to go 750gph or even 1000gph?


Mark