Skimmer and Lighting question

[BCReefer]

I am looking at purchasing a Sea Clone Skimmer that sits on the back of the tank. The skimmer is good up to 100G and I will be putting it on a 33G. I am also looking at getting a 36” Power Compact Oceanic light that gives out 110W.

Would this be sufficient for me to start having corals and frags? I will also have about 40 – 45 lbs of LR.

Lastly I f I purchase all this on the weekend how long do I need to run before adding corals? I will be using the water and rock from my 27 G tanks that has been running for 4 months.

I don’t have the room or stand that would allow me to have a sump.

Thanks
Patrick

[reefboy22]

hi im selling a hang on back pack skimmer i had it on my 33 but i upgaded to 135 and went all out if ure intrested im askng 125 t has newer pump ready to go let me know and about your tank 2 weeks and what are u adding for adities also selling some corals im in abbotsford u can email me at joshua22@shaw.ca

[BCReefer]

I'm interested but does the skimmer mount on the back of the tank?

[DJ88]

IMO the Seaclone is not a great skimmer.. I have two sitting in a box in a closet. I plan on doing horrible things to them. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

If you want to put corals in a 33, I would go for as much overkill as possible. Not to undercut the sale of the bakpak but I'd go for the Precision Marine HOT1. It hangs on the back. Very good skimmer. If you ever plan on taking your tank above softies you will probably end up wanting a more powerful skimmer. Buy the biggest you can get now and save the hassle of upgrading later. I did it that way and spent wayy to much money on upgrading. A good idea for researching skimmers is to go to Reef Central and runa search.. type in the skimmers you are looking for and see what comes up.. You will most likely see people recommending Remora's, HOT-1's and a few other large hang on's. I guess it will come down to waht you are willing to spend.

Once again tho do keep in mind where you hope to go with your tank. Just softies? or more later on?

With the lighting you may need to put the corals as high as possible in the tank. 110W of PC is a good start. I think you should be able to keep a few softies. I don't know enough about PC on a 33gallon tho. Hopefully someone who has used PC's will add more..

Softies should be ok.. Hard corals IMO, no. You won't have the intensity. But that is me. Once again I go for as much as possible. On my 33 I have 3 95W VHO actinics and a 250W MH.

[reefboy22]

yes it does if u want my number we can meet and u can take a look

[Silverfish]

If you are in the market for a skimmer, don't waste your money on a seaclone,JMO. I had one as my first skimmer and they suck. Darren had some good advice on the skimmers and as far as lighting goes, I have seen his 33g with the MH and VHO actinic, and it is awsome. If you are like most of us you will end up spending the money on this "addiction" sooner or later, so spend wisely. ps, good to ask first, spend later images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Reefmaster]

hi patrick
there's lots of info on skimmers on the net, and i guess it comes down to what fits the budget. as for lighting, not many 33's have a 250mh and 95w of vho like darren's. i have seen a 20g with a 175w and an actinic no and it looked good. the thought i have is could you put a metal halide system on giving you more light, for less money? i have no idea what the oceanic is worth, but you might consider going to mh. its really not that expensive, especially if you put'er together yourself. lots of people here know how to do it. shane

[ 31 October 2001: Message edited by: Reefmaster ]

[reefburnaby]

Howdy,

...that $125 Bakpak sounds pretty good. Look at www.cprusa.com (http://www.cprusa.com) for details. Highly recommended and it hangs on the bak(hence, bakpak). If you are pretty good with your hands, you could build one using standard PVC for about $80. It would be better than a HOT-1 -- but the HOT-1 just looks cooler.

As for your PCs, 96W is fine for most corals except for the most demanding. Get a good shinny reflector for your 96W. See www.ahsupply.com (http://www.ahsupply.com) for details. Most soft and LPS will be fine. LPS don't need tons of light as long as you feed them once a week.

However, have you considered MH or MV ? Its cheaper than you think. Something like a Iwasaki 250W setup should cost less than $250 (PFO Ballast from J&L with 6500K Iwasaki MV). You could add actinics when you save enough money -- since they are mostly for looks.

As for you last question -- how long ? As long as you are sure that everything is working....you can put them in almost immediately. The only caution is that you should acclimate your corals to the new lighting.

- Victor.

[ 31 October 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[gboots]

I agree with DJ88, if you have the money, go big with the skimmer. You can will probably put it to full use down the road. I am in the proces of changing my 33gl from fw to sw reef. I didn't have the money fot PM Hot1. I ended up going with a Red Sea Prism. So far so good. Although I'm still just curing my rock.

As far as lights go I have no previos experience. I went with a total of 192 watts of pc lighting, a combination of 10,000k and ultra actinic. As soon as the rock is finished curing and I get some real life in the tank I'll let you know how they work out. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Troy F]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote96W is fine for most corals except for the most demanding.

Hi Victor, I don't think I agree with you on that one. I would not subject most LPS to that lighting, feedings or not.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: Troy F ]

[DJ88]

I'll agree with Troy there as well Victor.

I had a 90 with 320W of lighting with NO's and LPS's didn't do very well. And that was with weekly or more feedings. I think I just kept them alive. Tho one Bubble did receed. That one I put in Silverfish's tank to keep it healthy till I moved it to my current tank. They were up about 8 to 9 inches beneath the tubes. They need the intense light that the SPS need as well. Now that my LPS are under a MH they are doing much better. Showing growth and healing the damage that was caused under insufficient lighting.

Most softies should be fine. With a few exceptions.

It can be done.. I have seen it done. But the tank was converted to a MH system before any damage was visible. Why risk the coral tho?

And my 33 is not the norm for lighting. I just wanted to get the max I could over this tank. And by the growth my SPS is showing it is paying off.

I think a 33 with a fair bit of LR(which you have images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) and softies would make a SWEET tank. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif Tho I prefer the hard stuff.. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

As for time to get it going and safe for corals? I'd give it a couple of weeks.. Nothing major really. Are you putting a DSB in it? Moving existing sand? Entirely new? That is the big thing. There isn't a significant water addition. 13 gallons. That is just a big water change. No worries there. I did the same for my move.

And Patrick, I still have some Colt waiting here for you.. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif I'll hold onto it until your tank is set up and running if you like. I lost your number when you gave it to me.. So let me know and we can get these frags to ya..

[reefburnaby]

Hello,

I don't know...I have a torch and a Candy Cane and they are under one 6500K 55W in a 20 gal. All happy and doubling in 12 months. 33 and 96W would be brighter than mine.

From Dr. Ron Shimek on Reef Central, light provides Zooxanthellae with energy so that it can give food to the Corals. Suppose, we feed the same amount of food to the coral as it would get from Zooxanthelae....hey that should work right. Yupe, the food you give corals will be nutritionally complete...not just a selected sugars from Zooxanthellae.

But hey....that is just my humble opinion.

- Victor.

[DJ88]

I understand about light feeding corals. But the thing is this tank is a 33. It is taller than a 20. Not much(a few inches but)The intensity of the PC will decrease exponentially as you go deeper. That was why I mentioneed I had 320W of NO light(even 400W at one point) on a 90 and the LPS were right below the surface and they didn't fare well. And that was with regular feeding.

We also don't know how far from the surface you have your LPS. How far Patrick intends to keep his. In general tho I would not recommend LPS under that amount of light.

And this is why..

I moved my LPS from 320W of NO in my 90 to about 350W of MH(not VHO's as I have now)with NO actinics in a 33 and they were flourishing. Both were the same distance from the lighting. If not deeper in the 33. There is no siginficant difference in wattage. Feedings haven't changed. Intensity did. You can look at PC lamps directly. But to look at a MH bulb you will hurt your eyes. It is that intensity that penetrates much further into the water column that keeps light loving corals alive.

Wattage or watts per gallon, means squat to me. It is the intensity of the lighting that keeps these corals alive. If you are using NO you need to be real close to the lamps to get any real intensity, PC's are a little further away. With MH you can get the intensity you need to keep them alive at a much greater depth.

I dont' feed my branching hammer anymore and it is showing new branches all over it. IT was barely alive when I moved it out of my old tank to a MH equipped tank.

That is all my experience tho and opinion..

[Troy F]

Hi Victor,

Well you can't argue with personal experience. If it is working for you then you are doing something right. There are many that use NO lighting only and they claim success too. I just think if we are going to point new reefers in a direction it should be to err on the side of caution. I'm not saying your way isn't possible just that every successful tank I've seen has had high lighting. Then again, DaleD's 90gal reef had 1x175W 10000K bulb with 2 80W actinics and was the most beautiful LPS/softie tank I've yet seen bar none. Whatever work's I guess. Have I made any point? <I don't know>

One thing to consider when having to feed LPS is the increased nutrient load on a system. That nutrient load had better be accounted for, especially in a small tank. I believe I have personal experience on this issue images/smiles/icon_sad.gif unfortunately.

Another thing to consider is that Ron's comments about zooxanthellae and nutrition are not widely accepted, (and that is my understatement of the year). Most of those with a background in the field feel that his comments are downright irresponsible.

edit: what's up with the italics? I didn't add them unless I've discovered new code. Maybe that confused opening paragraph is what did it.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: Troy F ]

[BCReefer]

After reading the comments, I will not get the Sea Clone Skimmer, I will look at the one that Bakpak skimmer from reefboy. The lighting was $290.00 for a 36” strip. I will be visiting J&L’s this weekend and see the Iwasaki 250W set up. I thought that they would be more expensive than that! I try to get over the bridge to see J&L’s more, but it’s hard.

I am really glad I came and asked questions, sometimes I just get a headache after talking to some of sales people in the stores. I will be at the Nov 18th meeting so I will probably wait until then before I purchase any new equipment except for the Skimmer from reefboy.

In the past I asked about LPS and their load on the system. How would I know that I am doing something wrong, before something dies?

My time line is something like this:

Purchase new equiment – by the end of November or sooner
Run for 2 – 4 weeks as a FOWLR
Start adding corals


Darren I really would like some of the frags. But please keep them for a little longer.

Really can’t wait for the meeting.

Patrick

[BCReefer]

1 more thing.

If I started with a 250W system, would that be sufficent lighting for hard & soft corals? In 2 months time I can then proceed to phase 2 with the 95W VHO actinics?

[DJ88]

Patrick,

Stop by and see my system some day.

Yes a 250MH will work for what you are wanting to keep. Add in the two VHO's and you will be doing very well indeed. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif I ahve two clams in my sand bed and they look awesome. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif If you do come over tho keep in mind I have a deeeep sand bed which brings everything up closer to the light. It is 5 to 6 inches deep in places.

It is a 250W Iwasaki with 3x95W VHO actinics. It is a tight fit with the lid. But it does light up the tank. All of my SPS is showing growth. In particular two staghorns of mine are budding like crazy. We won't even go into the montipora. images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I'll keep holding the colt frag for ya.. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Victor,

I hope you don't take my post as any kind of an attack. I am glad your LPS are doing great.. My main worry is that someone reading this will think that with a PC setup they will have the success you are having. Your system is working for you and is doing so very well I take it. I once thought that by putting a whole lot of watts over my tank I could keep anything. I lost a couple of softies and almost some LPS. I don't want others to make that mistake.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

[reefburnaby]

Hello Darren and Troy,

Okay...for a begineer -- more light is better. Just remember that most of the light output comes from the 6500K or 10000K PCs. The actinics contribute a small fraction (20%) of the total light intensity. That's why I am saying a single 6500K 96W is pretty close to a 10000K + 03 Actinic 192W (which is a pretty common and widely accepted setup for LPS).

Darren, I wasn't offended by your comments. My tank is a little bit brighter than J&Ls LPS tanks. The LPSes are at the bottom corner of my tank....and my tank has no gravel. Go figure images/smiles/icon_smile.gif Hmmm...I am in the process of lighting my 90 gal with 220W of 4xT8s. Its overdriven with an Icecap clone. I must be crazy....really crazy. images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Patrick, you must be really confused now !! Just go for the Iwasakis...you'll never regret it or worry about if you have enough lighting.

Hopefully, nobody got offended by my comments and opinions...

- Victor.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[Troy F]

Nope no offense taken. I appreciate your opinions.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: Troy F ]

[StirCrazy]

A Thought comes to mind ( a rare ocasion images/smiles/icon_wink.gif ) if I string up two pc's over my tank lets say a 6500K and a 10000K 96w each could a 400 watt 20000K MH be used to provide the atinics? or would that be nuts on a 33 gal?

Steve

[reefboy22]

hi bcreefer u can call me at 853-9919 its josh im in abbotsford so not 2 far to come i work till 5:00 during the week so around 6 or on the weekend u can try me anytime im also selling some softys and lots of sps frags when ure ready and if anyone else wants let me know.

talk to u all later images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[DJ88]

What kinds of SPS do you have Josh?

[reefboy22]

5 differnt montipora lots acropora porites let me know sell or trade frags over 40 sps and some softys and mushrooms

[Reefmaster]

steve
we run a two 400w's, one 20k and the other 6500 or 5500. a 20k on a small tank would be like dawn/dusk all the time, even with the pc's. why not just go to a 6500 or 10k and forget the rest? shane

[DJ88]

Josh,

We shall be in contact.. when are you available for a drop in? I may want to go shopping. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif Unless you have seen something in my tank that interests you. THo I highly doubt that.. lol

[DJ88]

Heck I wasn't offended.. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif Nice to discuss things here.. lets people see a few diferent sides of the discussion.. Now if we could get more guys opening thier mouths to say waht they feel.. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Do you have any pics of your 20?

[reefboy22]

hi darren im off to j/l to get some stuff this weekend so if u wana call me its 853-9919 its so hard to contact people on this its just back and forth so gie me a call and we can meet

[smokinreefer]

hey joshua,
i am interested in trading/buying sps frags too. let me know when your in the area again and we can meet up. do you have any pics of the frags you have?
later,
shao

[reefboy22]

no i dont but will soon ure welcome over to check it out tho if u wana call its 853-9919 or u can email me at joshua22@shaw.ca

[DJ88]

Thanks Joshua,

Don't know if I will be getting anything from you right now..

Tank isn't doing well..

thanks.. I'll be in touch..

[reefboy22]

ok sounds good and sorry to hear about your tank ill have to help u fill it again