PDA

View Full Version : Angelfish are breeding!!


Xtasia
03-05-2005, 06:15 AM
My angelfish are breeding and it appears that there are 2 sets of pairs...

I read that it was diffcult to tell the male and female apart, but that it couldbe done by looking at the exposed nipple like genitals while they breed... to me, they look exactly the same (but I'd like to be optimistic and believe it is my niavete and not that my fish are lesbians)... Is there any sort of behavior, or fish shape I could use to differentiate sex?

Also, how close should the air bubbles from the air stone be to the eggs if you grow the eggs away from the parents?

More questions later I'm sure..

Thanks for any answers

Marnie
03-05-2005, 07:55 AM
Very exciting

You can definitely tell them apart. The male's is thinner and longer and the female's looks more blunt. As for appearance sometimes the males head has a pronounced hump on forehead area.

The airstone can run right up against the eggs if its not too strong. I always had them about 1" away though.

You'll have better success with the eggs if you put a few drops of meth-blue to help keep fungus away. What size container do you have the eggs in??

You'll have wigglers in 7 days so you'll need to hatch brineshrimp to have ready.

I hope this helps, worked for me....I bred angelfish for past 3 years and just sold my hatchery this past year. [/b]

Xtasia
03-05-2005, 04:02 PM
I have the parents in a 20g tank away from the 33g community tank. After they breed, I was going to move the parents back to the 33g and move the eggs into the 1g pickle jar until they were older, then put them into the 20g after...

Some people adviced using the 1g pickle jar but this confuses me.. where can I buy 1g heater?

SeaHorse_Fanatic
03-05-2005, 04:15 PM
My dad & I always used bare-bottom tanks & left the eggs in there because they are very delicate & any disturbance, such as temp. change, could cause them to go bad & get fungus. We left the parents in there for the first 2-3 weeks & after a couple of batches, the adults actually became pretty good parents. If the parents are left with the eggs, they'll eat any unfertilized eggs that discolour. If you take them out, are you going to remove those bad eggs because they will develop fungus & it'll spread to other eggs. (Methylene blue does help with this problem though). Besides, it's cool watching the parents guard their fry. The downside of course was sometimes having them eat their fry :eating:

Good luck & have fun. Remember, if you lose the first few batches, don't stress out over it. Mine would breed every few weeks. Ended up with 5 tanks just for breeding angels & rearing fry. If you're successful, it'll seem like they take forever to reach saleable size but it'll also feel very rewarding.

Anthony

Xtasia
03-05-2005, 04:24 PM
They seemed to be doing a good job the first 24 hours.. but I think, when I came home and started moving around the house and turning the house lights on and off, it stressed them out and made them eat the eggs <shrugs>

Live and learn.

I'm just going to try my hand at rearing one batch.. as it stands, I have 6 tanks going int he living room, and I get really embarassed at what people have to say when they first come in...

><

Ryan
03-05-2005, 06:18 PM
Your pair may need practice. Like Discus and other cichlids it could take them 6 or 7 times to get it right just be patient. When i had my pairs i could tell the males apart from looks they looked bigger and rougher than the small females. Also the female will become fat with eggs.

Xtasia
03-05-2005, 06:22 PM
duh heavy with eggs.. ok so I know for sure one was female... now to see if the other was...

thanks.

trilinearmipmap
03-05-2005, 07:11 PM
I have raised a few batches, here is my experience.

First microworms are a much easier food source than baby brine shrimp. Just easier to keep a microworm culture going.

Second I found a night light overnight kept the parents from eating the eggs/fry.

Good luck.

Marnie
03-06-2005, 04:57 AM
Just put the jar inside of your 20g heated tank. You may have to find somthing raise it up a bit. Clip your airline to the side of the jar and away ya go. You can easily siphon water with airhose to make small waterchanges in P. Jar.

I found brine shrimp easiet if you hatch a large batch and then freeze it in an ice cube tray, just melt a cube as needed.

Fish Breath
03-07-2005, 04:09 AM
Once you have a proven pair of Angels they will spawn aprox every 2 weeks. Sometimes two females will spawn together. So that is a possibility too.

What did they deposite thier eggs on ( ei leaf rock filter tube ect.)
Angels will eat their spawn if spooked to much or stressed to much. Some parents will always just eat them too. If you want the parents to raise them then there are a few things you can try if they keep eating the eggs .
here a link to Angels plus go to it then click on the link in the all about Angels section then the breeding Angels link There is lots of info there it is about half way down on the left hand side of the screen
http://www.angelsplus.com/

Good Luck

Xtasia
03-07-2005, 11:49 PM
They laid their eggs on a sword plant, but i could not move the sword plant into the breeding tank because I don't have strong enough light in the breeding tank to keep it from disolving. I put some upright slate and pvc tubes in there... hopefully they are not so stressed about the change of tanks, and substrate that they will still lay the eggs.

The mating tank is bare bottom, but has 90% of the water from the community tank, thus, same tempurature, hp, etc...

What do you think?

I'm going to try to take a picture of the tanks for more information.

Fish Breath
03-08-2005, 03:22 AM
I think you are good to go They should lay again. Probably on the slate
When they laid last time was it in a community tank?
If it was it is possible the other fish may have eaten the eggs too.
Are you going to try to let the parents tend the eggs the next time they lay or are you going to remove the eggs?
Did you check out the link I posted?
If not check it out lots of usful tips there
here's one more link http://www.geocities.com/river_angels/breeding1.html

Xtasia
03-08-2005, 03:19 PM
So for right now...

I should just wait for them to lay the eggs.. try not to stress them out, feed them high quality foods...

I read somewhere that big water changes are crucial in angelfish breeding, but every time I do a water change, my 'stud' gets so stressed out he can't eat for a few days... How often should I do water changes? I was thinking I should probably wait until they spawn again, but 2 weeks is a LONG time to wait!

Fish Breath
03-08-2005, 06:23 PM
My experience is they will spawn anyways But that is just my experience If you have a good pair they will spawn every couple weeks sometimes I do lots of water changes and sometimes I get lazy and don't do any for a few weeks yet I still get a spawn from my pair but others may be different. I'm not sure on that. I remember back quite a few years when I was younger I had the same experience. My fish would still spawn regularly and back then there were not alot of water changes done as I was younger and didn't know that I had to do water changes. LOL
But now I am older and wiser and do know now why you have to do water changes
I 'm not sure what to do in your situation but if you think they will be spooked to much I would probably wait to let them settle into thier new enviroment especially if you just moved them to this tank and providing you have good filteration on the tank

But the flip side of this is the more water changes you do the more used to water changes the fish will be and thus less spooked
Are you planning on parent raising the spawn or removing the eggs and hatching them out seperate ?[/quote]

Xtasia
03-08-2005, 09:53 PM
well my fish are fine by water changes.. but this all came about because my friend asked me to babysit her angel while she moved to edmonton... low and behold, her lone angelfish boy, fell in love with one of my young nubile fishy girls....

She didn't do alot to her tank so her boy fish is very sensitive... mine angels are totally used to water changes so used to my general noise and cacophony.

I noticed tho, whenever I did a water change, her boy would get really stressed out.. Right now I have a hang on filter and 2 weightd sponge filters, borrowed from SeaHorseFanatic... No substrate. 4 pieces of slate, some low maintenance, low light water sprite growing on the surface, and 2 tubes of PVC...

I haven't decided if I'm goign to tank raise them or not... My friend is only letting me babysit her boy-fish for 3 months so I want to be sure to get 1 batch out of them... And knowing that they ate the first batch, doesn't make me too inclined to let them try it on their own...

What do you think...?

My options seem to be..

grow them alone in the 20g..
grow them alone in the 1g inside the 20g.
let the parents try...

Would kinda be cool to se the parents do it.. but with my inexperience won't I spook my already cowardly stud into doing something horrible to the babies?

SeaHorse_Fanatic
03-08-2005, 10:10 PM
Every breeding pair of angels I ever had (several in the 80s & 90s) ate their first batch at least, sometimes several batches before they usually settled down to being good parents. Unfortunately, some never learn.

Anthony

Fish Breath
03-09-2005, 12:33 AM
Every breeding pair of angels I ever had (several in the 80s & 90s) ate their first batch at least, sometimes several batches before they usually settled down to being good parents. Unfortunately, some never learn.

Anthony

Antony those that never learned were the upperclass of the Angelfish society and they actually did learn. They learned that fine dinning equates to Caviar

SeaHorse_Fanatic
03-09-2005, 07:10 AM
:eating:

Xtasia
03-13-2005, 04:08 PM
This morning I woke up to find my angel oddly deflated... (flat again)... After looking around a bit I noticed EGGS ON THE PVC, Woo oooooooo hooooooo!!

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2284


Mom is very dilligent in fanning the eggs, where as Dad is busy looking scary at the front of the glass (tho he does take an OCCASSIONAL shift).

I'm thinking I'll let them try to raise this batch until she starts eating them.. So far so good.

If this fails, next batch will be 100% artificially raised...

If this goes well, I will take you along for the ride with pictures as it progresses...

Should I make it such that the light doesn't go on and off (scaring them?).

I read somewhere that it is best to keep the lights on for this period. Any input? I have a few days before I have to do anyting else right? I don't really want to start a brine culture unless I'm sure they will raise them...

Xtasia
03-15-2005, 12:54 AM
at 24 hours... the angels ate them again... try again next week <sighs>

Next time i'm taking the parents away..

Xtasia
03-19-2005, 02:39 PM
OH THEY ARE THERE! I woke up this morning to see around 100 babies swimming around! I'm so excited... I dont understand.. I couldn't see them anywhere in the tank, I thought for sure they were eatten! I see them now! they are free swimming little babies!!

I'm just so nervous I need to find some brine! ahh is this what parents feel like with their first child?!

I guess it's day 6!

Fish Breath
03-19-2005, 05:23 PM
LOL. The brine shrimp you will need have to be newley hatched brine shrimp other wise they will be to big for the fry. You could use one of those cheap small plug in coffee grinders and grind up flake food too. But not near as effective as Babby Brine Shrimp. Most of the Angelfish breeders us newley hatched Baby Brine Shrimp.
If you can locate someone in the Vancouver Area Killifish Club.Several members in thier club always have Baby Brine Shrimp on the go

The reason you may not have seen the eggs after a day. Is you were looking for them, at the site where they were originaly laid ,and the parents probably moved them.

Angels will move the eggs from one place to another as they clean them and weed out the bad eggs so they may have just been moved to another leaf or rock or what ever you have in the tank and that is why you didn't notice them. But the parents will still actively tend them and fan them
(Did you notice them hanging out in another part of the aquarium)

Good luck on feeding the fry

AndyL
03-19-2005, 06:08 PM
Uh... No angels don't usually move the EGGS. They will however move wrigglers around.

Some people have reasonable results with frozen BBS, but I've never found my fry take it very well. However, I have recently switched from daily fresh hatches to now hatching every 3-4 days, and refridgerating the BBS during use is just as effective as the fresh hatches.

Some breeders have also had success using vinegar eels, and microworms. I'm sure you could probably chase down a culture in a reasonably quick fashion. (Off the top of my head I can think of 2 people in vancouver with cultures to sell - shouldn't be too hard to find one).

If you're looking for better eggs, cheaper than at the pet store - regina111 on aquabid sells some nice big cans for 20some $ (His filters are awesome too)

Andy

Fish Breath
03-19-2005, 07:03 PM
Uh... No angels don't usually move the EGGS. They will however move wrigglers around.

Andy

I would have to dissagree with you Andy On the moving eggs part. I have a pair of Angels that just last week moved the eggs on the second day from the slate to a anubius leaf. I will agree that they normaly wait till they are wrigglers But sometimes they do move thier eggs. Which I witnessed last week. But this could be due to unusual stress or them being spooked as I had alot of visitors just after they laid.

So it is entirley possible they would move thier eggs, and that would explain why she could not see the eggs after a day or so as she originaly could see the eggs But Thats just my opinion

I like your suggestion for the Vinegar eels or micro worms and you are absolutely correct she would probably find one of these cultures easier to find.


I

AndyL
03-19-2005, 07:11 PM
Angelfish do not move eggs... They move wrigglers. Do a google search if you don't believe me, you'll find lots of links to artificial rearing, nothing to angelfish moving eggs. Once they're laid - there they will stay until eaten or hatched.

Andy

AndyL
03-19-2005, 07:26 PM
As a reference... Here's my angelfish breeding rack.

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/data/500/1293rack050319.jpg

(Sorry about the won bro's boxes showing - didn't want to move them and **** off the marble pair again - their neighbours upset them to the point of eating fry/eggs every damn spawn - added those boxes last week and suddenly I have freeswimmers)

Andy

Xtasia
03-20-2005, 07:46 AM
Actually. I suspect (because I just read it on a web page..) that because I used white PVC (I also had Slate, and Amazon Sword, but they chose the PVC to lay the eggs on), that it was difficult to see the eggs once they turned into squirmers. I couldn't tell they were there... I saw some brownish stuff on the pvc but I assumed it was residue from the angel's eating the eggs.. If I was a more diligent fishkeeper I would have stuck my hand in there and rubbed it off.. thank god for procrastination :P

I'm actually going to try something that I read in a book, works.. as a temp solution until I can track down some of that other stuff... And thats cooked egg yolk strained through muslim, then dissolved in water.... I'll let you know how/if it works....

Thanks for the insight.. more info is always awesome. Tips. etc..

AndyL
03-20-2005, 03:09 PM
I specifically left out egg yolk...

Make sure you do a w/c right away after - stuffs as bad as liquifry for fouling the water.

Andy

Xtasia
03-22-2005, 01:05 AM
I need help! I've hatched brine around 20 hours ago and I see little wrigglers in the jar.. do I just siphon them off and feed them to the baby? I thought there was something about skimming the shells off? HELP

How long do I wait and how to prepare? I'm going to surf the net for information but I prefer info from an experiernced keeper.

Thanks

AndyL
03-22-2005, 01:39 AM
Lets start at the basics, generally you need 30 hours for the majority to hatch. So at 20 hours, you've probably got less than 30% hatchout.

To remove the bbs, there are a few methods, some like using a light, and syphon (or turkey baster). with decent hatchouts, I generally allow the unhatched eggs (that sink) and bbs to flow out the airline - leaving the last inch or so (little more than hatched eggs) in the hatchery. I tend to go for pretty full hatchouts - with a low hatchout - you may want to use the syphon/baster method to avoid all the unhatched cysts.

Oh - and here's an address you'll want to visit: http://www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.php

Andy

Xtasia
03-22-2005, 01:57 AM
I don't get it.. why would a light work.. should I keep the lights off when growing them? To me the logic in this is shining a light at a cow to get leather for my boots...

<sighs> What if They were in light to begin with? argh...

thanks for the link!

AndyL
03-22-2005, 02:32 AM
Attracted to light - they'll flock to it...

Andy

Xtasia
03-24-2005, 03:33 PM
Day 10: Their markings are starting to show... black splotches like daddy are all over their bodies.They are about the size of a grain of rice... look like transparent pacman heads on guppy bodies... TOO CUTE...

- eating Ground up brine and BBS.

Around 30 of them left now, none have died for the last 3 days. I think the morts have ceased for now.

FOOD:
Note: Egg yolk works but its REALLY REALLY MESSY. I wouldn't feed it in anything less than a 20g and like Andy said (i should have listened) water change RIGHT AWAY..

Shaving brine off a block works really well.

Xtasia
04-01-2005, 08:38 PM
It's day 19 and the fish are starting to become afraid of me.. before they had no fears and always swam in the light. Now they seem much more aware and swim away from the front of the tank when I approach..

They also seem a bit yellow... wonder if I need to change their diet... BBS, Brine, Bloodworm at this point...

AndyL
04-02-2005, 12:01 AM
Way too early for bloodworms... BBS only for the first 3 weeks, then start giving them a bit of crushed flake on one of the "starving" feedings (the one first thing in the morning, or when you get home from work etc). I like to feed a mix of cyclopeeze and agrian (cyclopeeze remains constant - the other flake is just filler).

Bloodworms etc - come once they're between pea/dime sized. until then, your best bet is BBS and a crushed flake.

Andy