Sandbed Thoughts....Part II

[SuperFudge]

Hello All,

I was thinking and searching concerning a sand bed or the lack there of, for my newest system....

I came across this old thread about 2 yrs old i think, i found it kinda interesting the thoughts we all had then.

I was wondering, would any of you change your opinion/theories or ideas now who posted then ?

Have any of you removed your sandbed or added one since this discussion ?

What are the thoughts of any newer members who didnt get a chance to post then ?

http://www.canreef.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4447&highlight=dsb

I think my opinion has pretty much remained the same, most likley i would just run enouph sand to hide the bottom.

Thanks for any input you may have, Marc.

[StirCrazy]

yes, and yes.

and since I have removed my sand bed my cyno and diatom problems are a thing of the past. I think in theory it is a good concept but in reality we cannot support enuf of the right critters to make it work. I think Dr. Ron said that the average aquarium has less than 10% of the variety and amount of critters required to make it work properly.

another big thing for removing the sand bed is water flow. before I had a 70X turnover rate in the top 1/3 of the tank. this proved difficult for proper placing of acros in order for them not to be in to strong of a current. Now with the same 70X turnover dispersed through out the tank all I have is gentle current at any point in the tank. If I tried this be for all I would have done is kicked up a sand storm. Also as a side benefit of the dispersed current I am finding that detritus is kept in suspension which makes it available for corals to catch and eat and the rest can go through the overflow to the skimmer.

Steve

[Delphinus]

Hehe, I just re-read the whole thread.

To be honest, no, I don't truly feel hugely different now. I feel the choice of a sandbed, or more generally "substrata", is still somewhat dictated by the choice of animals you intend to keep. It could be that 99% don't care. But it's not 100%. Jawfish, for example, deep substrate. Not necessarily a DSB however. And the large granular substrate is still good for infauna production.

But with creativity there are ways to manage some of those issues.

My tank with a DSB didn't get much of a chance to get old, stupid thing sprung a leak, so I'll never know if it was a time bomb or not. In a sense, it was, but not for the reasons laid out in the no-DSB camp. When I moved the rock and animals over to a new tank, I kept only about 5%-10% of the sand, because, well, the "ant farm look" doesn't appeal to me. I like a uselessly thin skiff of sand on the bottom, but hey, that's just my thing.

[SuperFudge]

Thanks Steve and Tony,

Would either of you say that your system is healthier for the change, or no noticeable difference ?

I was just considering a remote sandbed, but now i wonder if any at all.

I think the only thing i really would miss, would be the reflectivity of the sand making it all a bit brighter in appearance and more natural looking overall.

There was a thread on RC about Black sand, and some comparison pics of the two types of sand, and to me, the fellas tank looked soooo much darker/dimmer with black that i was worried about going completley bare bottom for that reason.
To be honest, im not a fan of the cutting board approach either...looks a bit "sterile"

Hmm....One should epoxy a thin layer of sand, and have the best of both worlds..heh.

Marc.

[Jaws]

I like the idea of the cutting board approach and epoxy with sand. I also think I'd like to keep a deep sandbed in the sump though too if possible. Anyone doing this?

[Beverly]

We went BB in our 37g, 67g and 120g.

Positives:

- can siphon out crud thereby reducing overall tank nutrient content
- no more black or other stains creeping up the glass in the sandbed
- coralline algae grows to cover the glass bottom quickly if Ca levels are properly maintained

Negatives:

- loss of bacteria that would have been in the sandbed, so we keep fewer fish in each tank

Nuetrals:

- got used to the lack of white sandbed pretty quickly

Overall, I'm glad I got rid of the sandbeds in my three tanks. Makes for a little more maintenance doing the siphoning, but the extra work is worth knowing there are fewer nutrients in each tank.

Also, the extra work is satisfying because:

- I get a closer look at the tank during water changes that I didn't get before
- I'm a hands-on, low-tech person and I feel more in tune with my tank

[StirCrazy]

Thanks Steve and Tony,

Would either of you say that your system is healthier for the change, or no noticeable difference ?

Marc.

Yes I would say it is doing better.


I was just considering a remote sandbed, but now i wonder if any at all.

I think the only thing i really would miss, would be the reflectivity of the sand making it all a bit brighter in appearance and more natural looking overall.

Marc.

I think it looks just as bright, or its not noticeable to me anyways. On a side not in a month my bottom of my tank is already 33% covered with Coraline algae.


Hmm....One should epoxy a thin layer of sand, and have the best of both worlds..heh.

Marc.

that is one of my intentions when I set up the 40 gal tank. Some one has to try it :mrgreen: I don't like the idea of epoxying it to a cutting board as that will leave cracks for crap to fall in and it will be hard to get it out. I might try a slate bottom but I am not sure yet.

Steve

[Delphinus]

Thanks Steve and Tony,

Would either of you say that your system is healthier for the change, or no noticeable difference ?
Hard to say. The tank seemed to have some weird issues with stability after the move, it did kind of make me wonder if the sandbed crashed because it was disturbed during the move, or there was inadequate flow in the tank creating slow flow zones. The new tank where things were moved into, hasn't been set up long enough (only a month or two), to say.

I'll tell you one thing though, I don't miss having to worry about a falling powerhead excavating the sand under the rock and toppling the reef. Never again am I placing rock over a large sandbed without support underneath.


I was just considering a remote sandbed, but now i wonder if any at all.
When I get around to it :rolleyes: I'm going to be planting my mangroves in my leftover sand, in a IO bucket with some slow flow fed off the sump via powerhead, or something like that.


Hmm....One should epoxy a thin layer of sand, and have the best of both worlds..heh.
Totally agree, I think it would look sharp.

[SuperFudge]

Thanks all who have responded,

Do any of you have any full tank shots that you could share with the bare bottom ?

Man, i always have loved the jawfish, and the mandarins....i will miss having them in this one.

Marc.

[Richer]

No reason why you can't keep a mandarin. There are a couple of people on this board who keep them in BB tanks without a problem.

-Rich

[StirCrazy]

Thanks all who have responded,

Do any of you have any full tank shots that you could share with the bare bottom ?

Man, i always have loved the jawfish, and the mandarins....i will miss having them in this one.

Marc.

I will get you a shot in the next day or two, and I am going to still have mandarins, they were never in the sand anyways alway on the rock where the pods are.

Steve

[BCWolfen]

Steve, I'd love to see a shot. I had been planning on using a sand bed, but now am considering BB. I still plan to have a sand bed in my sump and in my refugium.

[EmilyB]

I'm liking the shallow sandbed in the reef, can't do sand in the trigger tank, but I can understand the extra maintenance.

[StirCrazy]

Steve, I'd love to see a shot. I had been planning on using a sand bed, but now am considering BB. I still plan to have a sand bed in my sump and in my refugium.

Ok for those that wanted to see a shot, here is one month since I took out the sand bed.

http://members.shaw.ca/crystalk/newbegining/15jan05/tankbottom.jpg

Steve

[SuperFudge]

Thanks Steve,

Looks good,

I dont know if you or anyone else had any types of algea or cyano problems before the removal, but if you did, has it noticeably declined ?

Thanks all for the input.

Marc.