Cites permit and corals

[Tarolisol]

Well ive been looking into the cites permit because i was hoping to bring some corals back with me when i go to the states, I couldnt find a price for the permit but i did find alot of interesting things. First of all if im reading it right you DO NOT need a permit to import most corals including acros, only the exporting country needs the permit. This is because hard corals are classified under appendix II of cites with means only the exporting country needs the permit. For stuff under appendix I then both parties, import and export, need the permit. With this said would i be able to bring corals over the boarder?

[Aquattro]

No, because you'd be exporting from the US. There is where the permit gets you.

[Willow]

i think you need a fido (sp?) permit from ag canada.

[Tarolisol]

It also states you would need the exporting permit to be from the original exporter so if it is not collected in the states then you dont need the stats one you need the origin to have one. Also if the SPS coral is aquacultred or cultured and you can prove it then you can bring it in. So a frag from someones colony in the aquarium would be allowed across the border with proof of it being aquacultred, which apparently a picture of the mother colony in the aquarium would work.

[dirtyreefer]

No, because you'd be exporting from the US. There is where the permit gets you.

That's why most online retailers like themarinecenter, liveaquaria or marinedepot do not ship corals to Canada, simply because there isn't a large enough Canadian market to justify getting a permit.

I only wish though!

[zulu_principle]

The reason most dont ship is not due to the size of the canadian market, it is more the cost of the cites, fish and wildlife inspection and the labour associated with completing these tasks for a $500 order would not make much business $ense.


JMHEO


Wendell

[kris_willard]

Zoanthoids are COMPLETELY unregulated, I have spoke directly with CITIES, fish and wildlife and also i believe it is food and safety? I am 100% sure that if you found some you like that these are completely leagal to bring agcross the border.

[StirCrazy]

Zoanthoids are COMPLETELY unregulated, I have spoke directly with CITIES, fish and wildlife and also i believe it is food and safety? I am 100% sure that if you found some you like that these are completely leagal to bring agcross the border.

unless they are attached to a chunk of live rock. :mrgreen:

Steve

[kris_willard]

As long as that live rock was aquacultured...your good to go...the exact word from the border office and fish and wildlife was "if they write on the bag the species and that it was aquacultured you will be fine".

[Tarolisol]

Well if and when i go i am going to take my chances bringing some sps frags back. I figure the worst that can happen is they say no. Then i turn around go to a different crossing and hide them in my trunk :lol:

[Willow]

stick em in a goldfish bowl glued to the dash and tell em its fake.

[sumpfinfishe]

Hey Sean,
JMO, you should listen to these people. Brad,Steve, and myself have been reefing for awhile now, trust us- if it was legal to bring back coral, frags, LR, and most other marine goodies without permits, fees, and duties we would probably all have swimming pools for reeftanks by now.
Also Wendell is in the coral business, he would know first hand probably more than most on this board about shipping across boarders.

If you wanna take a chance on smugeling, well that's up to you, but with huge fines, impoundment, and even jail time maybe you would rather take a chance with a kilo of coke over a few frags-at least your payoff would be worth it-that is if you made it :mrgreen:

Kris: "if they write on the bag the species and that it was aquacultured you will be fine"
Don't believe everything you hear, I was was told the same by a US retailer and luckily I didn't make the purchase because when I returned to Canada they told me at customs that "oh so you could buy any endangered species of marine life write aquacultured on the bag and your good to go-Not!"

[DBM]

First off, how do you plan on proving they're aquacultured? Trust me, a photo won't cut it. A person can't drive across the border with aquaculture live rock from Florida because there's a chance there's coral growing on it.

Do you really think that the borders don't keep track of when you drive up to the border crossing? As soon as you were to drive up to the next crossing they'd have you pulled over and they'd be doing a thorough search of your car; and you. (are you allergic to latex?)

I'm involved in the ornamental fish importing business and can tell you they don't take coral smuggling lightly here. One importer here in Vancouver got fines in the 10's of thousands of dollars when customs came across incidental corals growing on his aquacultured live rock. Another got a fine in the six figures when he was caught falsely declaring his corals as tropical fish.

I don't know about you but doesn't seem worth it to me.

[Tarolisol]

So then sneaking them might not be a good idea, but how would someone prove they are aquacultured.

[Delphinus]

Well if and when i go i am going to take my chances bringing some sps frags back. I figure the worst that can happen is they say no. Then i turn around go to a different crossing and hide them in my trunk :lol:

Actually the worst that can happen is this. The corals will be confiscated, and they will die. Then you will get a several thousand dollar fine. You may also face up to ten years in prison.

Smuggling endangered species animals, or parts of animals, alive or dead ... is a serious criminal offense.

Plus it also puts all legitimate importers at risk for more thorough customs inspections, etc.

Do not attempt.

My advice: There is nothing you can get in the U.S., really, nothing, that you can't get up here. Tell your favourite LFS what you want, and let them hunt for you. Yes, this means that immediate gratification may have to wait. But this is their business, let them do what they're best at.

I have gone through the process of legitimately importing CITES listed live matter (in my case it was plants). The customs brokerage was a total hassle, it took several hours of my time over the course of many days, plus the overhead costs were prohibitive for small orders.

Make no mistake though: customs officers know exactly what you're trying if you try to bring little bags of water and stuff.

Over the years I have heard of about a half-dozen stories out of the news media (or from word of mouth) about how someone tried it and didn't get away. And they went to jail. Or they had their car stripped searched. Guess what: even if they don't find anything they don't pay to put it back together. This happened to someone I know.

Once you've shown up at the border, it's not like you can "change your mind" and turn around with the stuff you have with you.

[Tarolisol]

Ok so how would one get the nice SPS to canada, i dont want to order a hole colony i just want frags or small culutured corals, and im not going to get big als to bring hunt for them cause that would end up costing more then my entire tank. Can someone recomend a good online canadian store that will search for me and not cost me hundreds of dollers. I have almost never seen a nice SPS coral in a store in calgary so it was looking to me that unless you live in the states your sh*t outa luck.

[mr_alberta]

You could get onto Jamie Cross' frag waiting list. He's got some really really nice stuff. Jensen at ReefRaft usually has some nice SPS as well. Jack and Wendell form Ocean Aquatics is another and they usually sell frags too. I believe all of these people are members of the board so you could always PM them to ask what they have available.

As with all SPS though, be prepared to pay insane prices for the nicer/rarer stuff.

[Tarolisol]

Thanks for the info newguy so if i PM these people or email the store do you know if they will give me a list of what they have.?

[mr_alberta]

Hi,

Ocean Aquatics is a sponsor here, so you can see what they have in stock when you visit their website (see left menu). Also, Jamie has a page of his frags here:

http://members.shaw.ca/jcross2/available_frags.htm

[Delphinus]

For SPS the places to watch are www.saltwaterconnection.com, www.jlaquatics.com and www.oceanaquatics.com. I've gotten amazing pieces from all 3 places. Locally, you just need to hit the stores on shipping day. If you're looking for something specific, let them know. They've all been good to me for specific requests (sometimes you just need to be patient is all). And of course, hit up the members who have SPS because usually they are all too happy to sell frags (hint hint you've never asked ME :razz: )

[Tarolisol]

I never even knew you had SPS ive only seen you huge anemone tank. Sp what you got del.