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View Full Version : Apex - talk me in, or talk me out :)


Aquattro
12-28-2018, 04:57 PM
So, thinking of buying an Apex, just not sure I need it.

New setup is ATI lighting with on board controller, Jebao pumps with control (I think?), auto top off will be float controlled. Heaters have controls (sorta).

Opinions on throwing $1000 at better control?

JamRobo
12-28-2018, 06:48 PM
honestly if you want the ability to program your tank and have probs etc its handy and worth it.

if your looking for the ability to control your tank from your phone amazon wifi powerbar work great.
at 40 bucks for controlable 4 plugs its cost effective!

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

Aquattro
12-28-2018, 09:01 PM
honestly if you want the ability to program your tank and have probs etc its handy and worth it.

if your looking for the ability to control your tank from your phone amazon wifi powerbar work great.
at 40 bucks for controlable 4 plugs its cost effective!

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

I do like to program a few things, and hate timers, but, $1000.

scherzo
12-28-2018, 09:22 PM
I've had an Apex for years - Using it wth Radions, Mp40s, 10s, fuge light, skimmer, main pump, heater, and old school float switches and water lifter for an ATO.

It worked great for years. Then one of my float switches crapped out on me ( it was 5 years old) - but the Apex warned me that it was going to overflow my sump and it stopped disaster. It happened a few times because I thought it might have just been a dirty float switch.

I decided to switch to an ATK from Neptune - and then things went weird and downhill. Problem with the ATK from the get go - Then my APEX brain decided to die - which wreaked havoc for weeks while I tried to trouble shoot.

Neptune's customer service was great. I was able to get all of the parts swapped out for the ATK whenever they crapped out - and they gave me a deal on an Apex brain when mine died (I think mine was bought in 2010? or 2011).

Having said all of this - it ran for many many years without problems and was great. BUT - when things went bad - things went really really bad and it was a pain to get it back up and running. It happened during my busiest time(s) of the year for me personally and it took me months to finally trouble shoot and get things going again. We are back to normal now after 4 months of fiddling and troubleshooting.

Not sure if this talks you in or out of it.... but
When it works - it works great.
If the brain goes weird on you - it sucks.

Aquattro
12-28-2018, 09:25 PM
Ya, I used one for a long time on my last builds, always loved it, saved my butt a couple times, and when it died, it was a huge hassle to get back online after they gave me a deal on a new one. Always keep a current back up config -lol

gregzz4
12-29-2018, 12:07 AM
Go old school ...
Digital Aquatics Reef Keeper Elite. Gives you 63 module ability over the Lite version's 4 modules.
A module consists of; a power bar, an sl1 or sl2, a moonlight module, a pump module, a dimmable light module, etc etc.
Download or get from me 'myReef 2.0' and use this Windows based program to do all your programming on-screen - no 'on this' or 'off that' Apex crap.
Been running it for 7 years and love it.
Finding a used one is your next job. The replacement was the new Archon system, but it looks like DA is now out of the controller biz.

Aquattro
12-29-2018, 12:25 AM
Greg, the Apex interface is way better now with the Fusion page, it's all GUI based, not the old on/off stuff from years ago.

Aquattro
12-29-2018, 12:25 AM
And what is a Gold Member??? :P

WarDog
12-29-2018, 12:47 AM
And what is a Gold Member??? :P

He gave me $20.

Aquattro
12-29-2018, 12:52 AM
He gave me $20.

I never thought of that....

gregzz4
12-29-2018, 01:13 AM
Greg, the Apex interface is way better now with the Fusion page, it's all GUI based, not the old on/off stuff from years ago.
Cool. Have at 'er
I was only suggesting a cheaper solution.

gregzz4
12-29-2018, 01:19 AM
He gave me $20.
Seriously ??
I thought that was between us :surprise:
Next thing I'll see you being arrested in China for taking bribes

Frogger
12-29-2018, 01:22 AM
Reasons against-
1. $1000
2. If you are managing your alkalinity/calcium with 2 part, anything other than the temperature monitoring is really not needed and easily tested using manual tests once a week or so.
3. It is useless for ATI lighting and some other lighting types
4. It is almost useless for Gyres.
5 There is work involved in setting up and maintenance involved in calibrating probes.
6. If pH is a problem in your tank.
7. Because orp is rather useless number unless you are using ozone
8. pH is not a test that is required regularly unless you have a problem and salinity is a once a week test max unless you have a monstrous water top off hooked up to an infinite source of fresh water
9. you will not save any time testing because you still have to do weekly salinity, temperature and periodic pH testing with an Apex.

Reasons for-
1. Its a great tank computer for only $1000.
2. If you are managing your alkalinity with calcium/CO2 reactor.
3. You have lighting that works with their programming
4. You have pumps that work with the unit.
5. You travel or are away for long hours at work and need to manage your tank. Or no one is home in your house for long hours a day and you tend to worry.
6. You love gadgets/ toys and somewhat useless charts that show your pH, Salinity, Orp and temperature 24 hours a day, assuming you have properly calibrated the unit. You still will need to do tests to check on its accuracy once a week or so.
7. You plan on purchasing the Trident once it becomes available.
8. you are using ozone
9 You have an unreliable lighting source that you need to continually monitor the par just in case it spikes or conks out on you.

I just purchased one during the Black Friday deals because I want the Trident in the future when it is available. I am in no hurry to set it up

Aquattro
12-29-2018, 01:24 AM
Frogger, thanks. Great post. I don't even know what Trident is, now I have to look :)

WarDog
12-29-2018, 01:33 AM
Frogger, thanks. Great post. I don't even know what Trident is, now I have to look :)

Don't get excited about Trident. It probably still won't be available for a few more years (inside joke).

gregzz4
12-29-2018, 02:03 AM
Trident
From Saltwater.com
What does the Trident measure?
The Trident was designed for reefkeepers. It tests for the three things that are the building blocks of coral skeletons in our reef tanks (and what our customers have been asking about for years): Alkalinity (dKH), Calcium, and Magnesium.

What are the connections?
The Trident connects to your Apex via a 1LINK connection, or via the AquaBus with an external power supply. It also has two tubes out the back, one to draw sample water from your tank, and the other to send waste to a container or a drain.

Does it have a pH probe inside?
No, the Trident has no pH probe inside that might require frequent calibration.

How does it work?
The Trident basically automates the proven method that you (and scientists) already know and use - Titration. Since the Trident uses micro-drops delivered via a stepper-motor driven peristaltic pump along with an electric eye, we have taken the human element out of the equation.

So, how accurate is it?
The Trident produces amazingly consistent results. Alkalinity is +/- 0.05 dKH and both Calcium and Magnesium are +/- 10ppm

How long will the reagent last?
The default testing schedule is 4x Alkalinity tests per day and 2x Magnesium and Calcium tests per day. At that rate the reagents will cost about $20/month. That's a per test cost less than any other test kit on the market today.

Can I test more or less frequently than that?
Yes, within limits. There are operational limits on both ends. Obviously the test takes time so only so many can be fit in a day. Also, once unsealed, the reagents will have a more shortened lifespan. That said we are fairly confident that you should be able to run less tests and get two months out of one set of reagents.

How much will the reagents cost?
Reagents will be ready-to-use (nothing to mix up), sold in two-month kits and cost ~$40.

How much tank sample water is taken?
Compared to products that only do alkalinity testing, the Trident uses very little tank water for its samples and produces very little waste. While most testing systems shown to date create 50-90ml of waste per test, the Trident produces under 15ml of waste for all three tests (Alk, Ca, Mg).

Is the Trident a standalone system?
No, the Trident requires the latest Apex to operate. However, the Trident does not require any external devices like dosing pumps and does not require any outside vessels for reagent or rinse water.

Why won't the Trident work with the previous Apex models like the Apex Classic?
With the advancement of technology, many times the resources available in prior systems is just not adequate for new devices. We see that with iPhones, gaming consoles, TVs, and many other devices in our lives. There are two key reasons why the Trident will not work with the Apex Classic. 1. Every Apex system must contain the working software for all the devices in the ecosystem. More complicated devices like the Energy Bar 832 and the Trident take up a great deal of code space. More than that is available on the previous Apex models. 2. The Energy Bar 832 and the Trident require more computational horsepower to operate than what is available in the now 10-year-old-designed Apex Classic hardware.

But you said that you would not leave Apex Classic owners behind?
And we haven't. Since the new Apex was released last year, we have developed a new module (FMM) and many more features in the Apex Fusion cloud service that everyone can take advantage of. At the time of launch last year I said that the only device at that time that would not work was the Energy Bar 832 and that nothing else was in the works at that time - but something could come along. And it did - subsequent to MACNA last year. And remember, we even made the COR compatible with the Apex Classic.

Will the new Apex Base Unit be available separately?
At this point our demand for complete Apex Systems is so great that we cannot shift the supply to selling the Apex Base Units on their own. This may happen down the road, but customers should realize that the value in getting a complete new Apex System will always be greater than buying the components individually. The new Apex System also comes with the advanced Energy Bar 832 and a set of our new double-junction probes that many customers might need to replace anyways. And remember, the new Apex is backward compatible with all of your existing Neptune Systems products.

How big is the Trident?
When we designed the Trident we wanted to make it as self-contained as possible. This meant that we wanted all the hardware and all of the reagents to be contained under a single, attractive enclosure. No tubes going this direction or that. No bottles to have to hide. We were able accomplish this in a space of just 4"W x 10"H x 12"D. The Trident should fit nicely under the stands of most aquariums. We intend on having an optional wall bracket available as well.

How much will the Trident cost?
No firm pricing will be released at this time, but we are committed to bring this to market between $500 and $600.

When will it be available?
We hope to have units in the hands of our Neptune Systems Insiders by the end of Q1/2018 and have it available to the general public in Q2/2018.

Aquattro
12-29-2018, 02:04 AM
Don't get excited about Trident. It probably still won't be available for a few more years (inside joke).

Saw the estimated US pricing, not excited -lol

gregzz4
12-29-2018, 02:04 AM
Umm, no thanks
Posted info above for you

gregzz4
12-29-2018, 02:07 AM
Looks like if you want new you're going Apex

gregzz4
12-29-2018, 02:19 AM
But, if you're interested, this looks like a good deal ....
I'd buy it, but I have enough spare parts already

NET and Moonlight modules are not needed(moonlight modules will now be unavailable), ORP Probe is kinda useless, pH probes are still available to purchase new from American Marine Pinpoint and J&L Reefcrest.
Not sure if the temp probes are still compatible from different brands.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1031520

gregzz4
12-29-2018, 02:45 AM
Wow, buy the Apex.
I had no idea DA was gone.
I just checked online for parts. There's nothing DA left to be found.
Luckily I have a couple molex temp probes and an RJ45 one as spares.
I can still use other brands for pH probes, but if my controller shuts down I'm hooped.

Aquattro
12-29-2018, 03:54 AM
lol, ya, I kinda figured that. New is the way to go, warranty, parts, etc.

davej
12-29-2018, 04:36 PM
If you don't have to have the latest greatest apex, pick up a used classic in the $450 - $500 range. I wouldn't run my reef without my apex

Dearth
12-29-2018, 04:44 PM
Late to the conversation but my take on Apex I do not have the wireless version so some things may be different

PRO

Very reliable
Easy to maintain
Compatible with most major brands
Can view it from anywhere in the world and make adjustments any time
User interface is mostly friendly and easy to read
Expandable
Easy to follow video tutorials on the Apex site
High resale value

CON

can be a right royal pain in the arse to program
Expensive
Updating can be an adventure
The cable connecting the unit to your display panel is very thin easy to break
Expensive to expand need more power bars and units to sync up meaning more cords equaling more clutter
Not compatible with some of the more popular brands


Over all I love mine but it can be a pain too

Aquattro
12-29-2018, 05:55 PM
If you don't have to have the latest greatest apex, pick up a used classic in the $450 - $500 range. I wouldn't run my reef without my apex

Hard to find, and older means more likely to have issues. I'm a bit sorry I sold mine, it had a brand new base unit :)

Ryan
12-29-2018, 11:17 PM
Why Apex over GHL?

Aquattro
12-30-2018, 12:38 AM
Why Apex over GHL?

Never liked GHL, and it was always more money when I first looked at controllers. At this point, I know Apex, so might as well go with what I know.

Pazil
12-30-2018, 03:19 AM
my apex controls
lights for my main and fry tanks
Heat for my main tank, fry tank, and water fill tank
Wave pumps, return pump, co2 pump and reactor
DOS for dosing
ATK for auto top off
2 AFK for different foods
Temp monitor x 2
PH monitor
ORP monitor
Flow monitor
Leak detector
And a IPC Cam

I can easily leave for a 2 week holiday and monitor everything in my system and watch the cam to ensure things look OK.

Worth the money!!
Cheers