Mandarin questions

[trilinearmipmap]

1. Is there any type of mandarin that is easier than another kind to keep?

2. I understand Mandarins are slow. I have two Coral Banded Shrimp in a 120 that chase all my fish around but don't catch them. How safe will a Mandarin be?

[Bob I]

Answer to #1; I don't think one is any better than the other. I have had a Psychedelic (Purple) one for close to a year. He lives in my 33G semi cube. He has doubled in size in that period of time. Just don't try and keep them with Sixline wrasses, as you may be asking for trouble.
Answer to #2; You should not have a problem. It would be a particularly stupid fish to allow itself to be caught by a shrimp. Mine is in with a Stenopus zanzibaricus, and has never been caught. :biggrin:

[trilinearmipmap]

Thanks.

[Manny]

i bought a psychedelic fish a couple of weeks ago and is now my favorite fish.

it swims, stops, looks around :rolleyes: . swims, stops, looks around, nibbles on something, looks around :rolleyes: . swims some more...

very active and really stunning to look at.

makes me laugh :lol:

[EmilyB]

The green mandarin Synchiropus splendidus has in my experience been a greedy little eating machine and more likely to take frozen food.

I have seen a coral banded trying to attack fish in the water column....and seeing my mandarins sound asleep in the middle of the sand... well, I would never put them together.

[StirCrazy]

On the topic of Mandrins, I would no recomend on in a tank less than 50 gal with 80 or more lbs of rock that has been well established. Bob's from what I remember eats food he feeds it but that is far and few between.

Steve

[danny zubot]

I've had my manderine for close to 8 months now in a 54 gallon tank. I also have a banded coral shrimp. The shrimp is territorial and will usually only nip at fish that come into its cave. They should be alright together because the manderine will learn what the tolerance of the shrimp are.

[Bob I]

On the topic of Mandrins, I would no recomend on in a tank less than 50 gal with 80 or more lbs of rock that has been well established. Bob's from what I remember eats food he feeds it but that is far and few between.

Steve

That of course is true, but how do you know if the fish is going to eat without actually bringing it home :question: . In the case of Mandarins it is usually a long time before they actually take food one provides.
And as far as sleeping on the sand and being eaten :eek: . I would think that the fish would feel that it is being eaten, and move off. :exclaim:

[trilinearmipmap]

I have a 120g with 100 pounds of live rock and a small in-sump refugium. I figure a Mandarin will probably be OK for food.

[Manny]

i have 60gal with a small in-sump refugium, about 100lbs of live rock and my psychedelic fish (Synchiropus picturatus) is definantly getting fatter and is very active and healthy.

i do notice that as soon as the lights go out it will be perched in some nook in the rock fast asleep.

he's a cute little bugger. :mrgreen:

[Vagabond]

I have a Psychedelic Mandarin that has been in my 60g with about 80 lbs of live rock for about a month now. He is a mysis shrimp pig and is happily getting quite fat.

I got mine from Oceans where they had a few of them. I had them feed the tank some mysis to see which, if any, were eating prepared foods and a couple of them took it right away (one of which is in my tank now).

To play it safe I would ask the LFS you plan to purchase from to do the same. that way if your pod population is not sufficient or dwindles at least the fish will be supplementing its dietary needs with the prepared food.

Good luck, they are a great fish :cool:

[OCDP]

Well, here's a stupid confession.

I bought a green spot mandarin last week from Wai's... I asked him to feed the tank , he fed them, the mandarin ate (like a little piggy too!) I was so happy to see them eating prepared foods... so I bought one... figuring my pod population was of no concern if it was eating prepared foods. BIG mistake.... I get it home, in the tank.. and within minutes it begins cruisin' around the tank hunting for pods... picking everywhere.... I figured it was just instinct obviously and thought nothing of it. Well.... if it's instinct is to hunt, then it's instinct is to eat pods (duh) ... and if it's in a display tank... of course it will take prepared foods if it has nothing else to eat!! Now my Mandarin is picking constantly.... sometimes it appears tojust be eating algae though. I have tried feeding it (hikari) mysis, and brine (so far) with little luck. My tank is 20g... don't freak on me ! I fed him some frozen brine yesterday and it appeared to snag a few pieces ... so knock on wood. If anyone has some kind of suggestions to give the tank a good boost of pods for the time being, I'm all ears.

My plan is to soak food in garlic extract ... and if this doesn't work... I will try ordering pods online, OR hatching brine shrimp... I was told the pod population in my 20g would be wiped out in 2 months tops.

I'm in need of help as you can see :D But the Mandarin IS fat... and it's very healthy...and I definitely would like to keep this fish if possible using the options I have available. If all else fails... I'll have to say Good-Bye :sad:

[Ryan]

There is an exelent article in this years marine fish and reef keeping annual.

[Azilla]

Answer to #1; I don't think one is any better than the other. I have had a Psychedelic (Purple) one for close to a year. He lives in my 33G semi cube. He has doubled in size in that period of time. Just don't try and keep them with Sixline wrasses, as you may be asking for trouble.

Ummmm may i ask why???? I have a 6line wrasse and a Mandrian :cry: :cry:

Also Get a nice big Fuge and load it with Live rock,sand and macro. You will have pods in no time in that puppy.

[StirCrazy]

Answer to #1; I don't think one is any better than the other. I have had a Psychedelic (Purple) one for close to a year. He lives in my 33G semi cube. He has doubled in size in that period of time. Just don't try and keep them with Sixline wrasses, as you may be asking for trouble.

Ummmm may i ask why???? I have a 6line wrasse and a Mandrian :cry: :cry:

Also Get a nice big Fuge and load it with Live rock,sand and macro. You will have pods in no time in that puppy.

because it is rare that the 6 line will not kill the mandrin.

Steve

[Azilla]

O i have both in my tank :eek: :eek:

[Bob I]

Answer to #1; I don't think one is any better than the other. I have had a Psychedelic (Purple) one for close to a year. He lives in my 33G semi cube. He has doubled in size in that period of time. Just don't try and keep them with Sixline wrasses, as you may be asking for trouble.

Ummmm may i ask why???? I have a 6line wrasse and a Mandrian :cry: :cry:

Also Get a nice big Fuge and load it with Live rock,sand and macro. You will have pods in no time in that puppy.

because it is rare that the 6 line will not kill the mandrin.

Steve

Steve is right. My Mandarin and sixline got along great, until one day the Sixline started attacking the Mandarin, and tore it up badly. :evil:

[trilinearmipmap]

I thought the problem was the Sixline would consume the Mandarin's food supply.

[AJ_77]

I thought the problem was the Sixline would consume the Mandarin's food supply.
At first - then the harassment starts, then the attacks. The 6-line will tend to seek to eliminate its competition eventually.

...they are wicked little beggars - recently had one rip on a well-established Yellow Tail damsel, but it didn't kill it - I guess because they don't compete for the same food source.

[smokinreefer]

Ummmm may i ask why???? I have a 6line wrasse and a Mandrian :cry: :cry:

in my past experience i had not had any problems keeping those 2 fish together...

in fact i just purchased a little sixline and a mandarin... my only fear is that when i add them to my 180 my leopard wrasse may harass the 6 line.

it would be my belief that in a large enough established enviroment (my 180) there would be ample room and food source to prevent/curb any over aggression.

FWIW, i had previously kept them together in my 125 a few years back.

HTH.

[trilinearmipmap]

I had a friend back in school who had a mean FW fish, I forget what kind it was, some kind of cichlid or gourami probably. When it would get mean and beat up the other fish he would punish it by giving it a good whack with a stick, or netting it and throwing it out on the front lawn.

[Edmonton Eskimo]

has your friend thought about seeking professional help? :lol:

[muck]

has your friend thought about seeking professional help? :lol:
haha. Good advice. :lol:

[Bob I]

Ummmm may i ask why???? I have a 6line wrasse and a Mandrian :cry: :cry:

in my past experience i had not had any problems keeping those 2 fish together...

in fact i just purchased a little sixline and a mandarin... my only fear is that when i add them to my 180 my leopard wrasse may harass the 6 line.

it would be my belief that in a large enough established enviroment (my 180) there would be ample room and food source to prevent/curb any over aggression.

FWIW, i had previously kept them together in my 125 a few years back.

HTH.

I have a friend who had a Sixline and a Mandarin in a six foot long tank. He had no problems either. So perhaps in a shorter tank where they see each other all the time problems develop. :confused:

[OCDP]

Hey, well the mandarin is still great... what size fuge would be sufficient for a 20g tank? What do you recommend putting in it?

I am no expert, but I don't think that a fuge will keep the pod population up for this little guy... unless he'll eat some frozen soon. I hope..if not... anyone want to buy a mandarin?

[trilinearmipmap]

has your friend thought about seeking professional help? :lol:

Lol.

No I have not seen him in over 10 years.

[EmilyB]

And as far as sleeping on the sand and being eaten :eek: . I would think that the fish would feel that it is being eaten, and move off. :exclaim:

I have picked up sleeping mandarins in my hand thinking they were dead. :eek: They do go rather comatose when they sleep, so no wonder they are protected by a venomous coating.

[AJ_77]

I have a friend who had a Sixline and a Mandarin in a six foot long tank. He had no problems either.
Six feet of water may or may not be enough, if a fish needs to escape another - esp if their 'territory' is only a part of that 6 feet. May explain why I found my little Mandarin on the carpet one morning. :neutral:

And that was before the 6-line came into this tank.

[StirCrazy]

And as far as sleeping on the sand and being eaten :eek: . I would think that the fish would feel that it is being eaten, and move off. :exclaim:

I have picked up sleeping mandarins in my hand thinking they were dead. :eek: They do go rather comatose when they sleep, so no wonder they are protected by a venomous coating.

you mean I flushed my female and she might have just been sleeping :eek: :rolleyes:

Steve

[Azilla]

I would put a 10gal fuge in for your 20gal tank. but thats me. Just use a rubber maid container for a fuge easy to drill if needed.

I have a 75gal tank and i see my mandrian out and my sixline out they swim with each other. Never seen a problem but then again all my fish swim with each other just like they are all hand fed.

[OCDP]

I have an update for those of you who care...

My mandarin just ate some more frozen brine! I just turned off the pumps, basted a cloud of brine in front of his face, and he ate! Tomorrow I will try Mysis.

I don't think a fuge will be necessary if it continues to eat the frozen brine.

[EmilyB]

I have an update for those of you who care...

My mandarin just ate some more frozen brine! I just turned off the pumps, basted a cloud of brine in front of his face, and he ate! Tomorrow I will try Mysis.

I don't think a fuge will be necessary if it continues to eat the frozen brine.

Switch him over to mysis as soon as possible. Brine has the nutrition of a candy bar :smile:

[OCDP]

haha yeah I know that. I figure if it will eat frozen brine... I can just try the mysis and pray for the best haha

[OCDP]

Oh I forgot to ask.. which brand of mysis is the best to use? Right now I am using hikari ? or hykari.. and Wai (where i got it from) said that its really bad stuff. Can you recommend a better brand?

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

PE Mysis is really good but it's probably too big for your Mandarin. Try mix both brine & mysis together to get it to sample the frzen foods. My seahorses eat both PE & Hikari, with equal zest, but big size difference.

Glad to hear your Mandarin is already scarfing down some frzen foods.

Anthony

[EmilyB]

The PE myis comes in two sizes and once yours eats, you will be surprised at how big that mouth really is..... :lol:

[OCDP]

haha awesome! Where can I get PE Mysis? I am in Calgary too! Thanks for the info as well... it's good to know.

[Delphinus]

LOL - OCDP - you need to check your PM's! :razz: I sent you a huge note about mysis and mandarin feedings. Check yer PM's once in a while! :lol:

Anyhow, unfortunately you just missed out on a large group order of it a couple months ago, but you should be able to get it at any Calgary retailer. Just ask, worst case scenario they're out. If you can't find any, send me a note, I can sell you some of mine (I bought 20 bags, so I have plenty ... and they're all the small size, for my mandarin).

[StirCrazy]

? Right now I am using hikari ? or hykari.. and Wai (where i got it from) said that its really bad stuff.

Nothing wrong with Haikari at all. In my opinion it is better for them than the PE but that is just my opinion.

Steve

[OCDP]

That's also what I was told from people on Reef Central. But then I talked to the owner of the LFS I got the Mandarin from... he said he doesn't feed any of his fish Hykari.. I think he actually said "it's crap" haha... but hey.. I dont know much about nutritonal value in frozen fish foods... yet.

I'll try the hykari once again tonight... but this little guy seems to be eating both (hykari) frozen brine and mysis. He definitely enjoyed the brine more though.

[Delphinus]

Personally I like Hikari but only because of its smaller size. If you look at the composition numbers, there's no comparison to PE mysis (<10% vs. something 60-70% if I recall correctly). For that reason PE stuff is awesome (fish will grow very quickly if fed this stuff as a staple), but since it is a heavy food, you have to be careful not to overdo it otherwise you risk spiking your system. If I have fussy eaters I'll try to start them on Hikari and try to graduate them onto PE over time.

[StirCrazy]

. If you look at the composition numbers, there's no comparison to PE mysis (<10% vs. something 60-70% if I recall correctly). For that reason PE stuff is awesome (fish will grow very quickly if fed this stuff as a staple), .

Ahh lets travel down this road again.. Hikari is a salt water shrimp collected from salt water were it is the natural food of salt water fish.

PE is collected from a fresh water lake in kelona were it is the food of fresh water fish who's lake freezes over in the winter so they need more fat to survive.

So. feed your fish PE and it is like taking a kid who grew up on a diet of rice and fish and switching his diet to beef and potato's.

there is a evolution factor here and although our fish may like the PE stuff it might not necessarily be good for them as a regular part of there diet.

another comparison is taking a tang, which has evolved to live on a very high fiber low protein diet and putting him in a tank which has no algae and feeding him meaty foods all the time instead. not exactly good for the evolved digestive system of a tang if you ask me.

look at mad cow disease.. came from making a cow eat what it naturally wouldn't eat.

I feed PE to my fresh water fish and Hikari to my salt water fish.

Steve

[Delphinus]

No let's not travel this road travelled before. Your opinion is just that, an opinion and it's no more valid than, say, my opinion. You better not be feeding Cyclops either then, since it too is cultivated in FW.

SW vs FW is irrelevant. As a food source either it will meet something's needs, or it won't. If it doesn't, than it doesn't. But if it does, then it's totally irrelevant as to its origins.

Your analogies are entertaining but flawed, my friend. If you're happy not feeding PE mysis to your fish then good for you. Whatever works for you is what's important.

I agree that simply feeding a homogenous diet of one thing may be flawed for long-term. That's why it's important to look at the numbers and be sure of what you're feeding.

[OCDP]

Wow.. this is quite interesting as I have never read so much about a fish's diet. It's all good to know guys! I appreciate both of your opinions.

I will give the PE a try at least... I mean, a variety can't hurt. I just have one last question about my mandarin.

If it's eating frozen regularly.. completely adjusted.. am I able to keep it successfully in a 20g tank ? I plan on an upgrade to a 77g maybe within a few months anyways... but it may be longer after. I just found a crazy deal on a 77g setup that I cannot resist.

I also wanted to tell you the current tank mates... there's 2 clowns, 1 purple firefish and a YWG. Will they all get along? So far so good, I just don't want any surpises if you knwo what I mean.

Also.. do you recommend soaking mysis/brine in garlic extract before feeding?

[Aquattro]

So will my fish get mad cow, er, fish disease from eating non native foods? So pellets are bad then too? How about Fijian algae for Hawaiian tangs? Mad tang disease? I think that might be true, 'cause my tang looks mad. Real mad, in fact, unless it gets some FW Mysis. Which is making it more mad, correct? Holy Mad Cow, Batman, what should I feed my SW fish in a box? If I eat SW fish, will I go mad? Or did I evolve from a SW organism, therefore maybe I should eat SW fish? How can I be expected to keep my fish from going mad, I can't even figure out what to eat my self!!

Going down this road is just maddening, don't ya think? I gotta go eat some pellets, bye. :razz:

[AJ_77]

So will my fish get mad cow, er, fish disease from eating non native foods? So pellets are bad then too? How about Fijian algae for Hawaiian tangs? Mad tang disease? I think that might be true, 'cause my tang looks mad. Real mad, in fact, unless it gets some FW Mysis. Which is making it more mad, correct? Holy Mad Cow, Batman, what should I feed my SW fish in a box? If I eat SW fish, will I go mad? Or did I evolve from a SW organism, therefore maybe I should eat SW fish? How can I be expected to keep my fish from going mad, I can't even figure out what to eat my self!!

Going down this road is just maddening, don't ya think? I gotta go eat some pellets, bye. :razz:
:lol:

What brand pellets? :lol:

[trilinearmipmap]

So as far as the two sizes of PE mysis, my fish don't like it much because it seems pretty big (about 1/4"" size), I bought a large slab of it from Ocean Aquatics, so I guess I need to buy the smaller size of PE mysis, is this commonly available? My mysis was not labelled at all, just a big huge freezer pack that I was told was PE mysis.

[AJ_77]

For smaller fish (such as Mandarins) you can just take a small chunk and shave it onto a spoon with a sharp knife - works well to deliver smaller pieces. You don't get the whole shrimpies, that's all. They still go nuts over the pieces, once they try one.

[OCDP]

That's neat.. thanks for the extra little tip. I'll let you all know if it eats some more mysis tonight.

[StirCrazy]

Bah, thats my whole point we don't know what feeding non natural foods will do to them. there are several published articles about pellet food and how by volume they contain way more nutrition than natural foods and because of that you should feed less frequently. and so on and so on..

Tony you are right everyone is going to have there own opinions about feeding and what to feed, heck thats why there is more types of food for fish than there is for cats. my main point is it is a non natural food source for salt water aquariums and we don't know if it is good in the long run or not. It may turn out that the levels are not far enuf out of wack that it makes any difference. who knows.

Brad didn't your tomato clown develop MFD (mad fish disease)?
:mrgreen:

Steve

[Aquattro]

Brad didn't your tomato clown develop MFD (mad fish disease)?
:mrgreen:

Steve

Yes indeed. Strangely though, it was before I found FW mysis and fed the fish SW plankton. Hmm, never do that again. FW mysis all the way for my fishies, 'cause only the best will do!! Mooooo!!!

[StirCrazy]

:mrgreen: LOL

[OCDP]

Well I just got home from work to feed the tank... and little mandarin decided to ignore the mysis tonight... no biggy... ill wait it out. I think he much prefers brine right now... so tomorrow I'll do a mix and see what happens...

It's such a let-down but I can't expect him to just do everything i want him to do lol... I was so happy yesterday to see him eat brine and then mysis later on... so he has a full belly at least (and a fat one) . I leave Saturday afternoon.. have a reefing babysitter thankfully.. with experience lol. Hopefully he will eat while I am gone... it's only a week, so I'll be back soon.

[EmilyB]

Speaking of Moo.... :mrgreen:


SW mysis isn't all they eat in the ocean Stir...I expect they pick up a lot of nutrition from things we can't provide...so maybe a little better diet in the tank is in order....


At any rate, my yellow tang is 6 years old, I am going for the long term with a diet that I see working. :razz:

[StirCrazy]

At any rate, my yellow tang is 6 years old, I am going for the long term with a diet that I see working. :razz:

you feed your tang? :eek:

Steve