Algae help needed

[Llorgon]

Currently battling a algae outbreak. Not sure if it's Dino's, calothrix or something else.

My params are

Temp: 80
Salinity: 1.026
pH: 8.3
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphates: 0
Alkalinity: 8.2
Calcium: 440
Magnesium: 1410

I have a protein skimmer running, chaeto in the sump with a light that comes on opposite to the display tank lights, feed once a day 1/4 cube of mysis or some pellets.

I have increased flow and skimming. Also added a filter sock and blowing off rocks/sand daily. Haven't made any progress on it so far.

How can I beat this?!

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[DKoKoMan]

I don’t think your nitrate and phosphates are truly at zero “0”. If this was the case algae wouldn’t stand a chance and your chaeto would essentially die off. Do you have any photos of the tank in it’s current state?

[ReefMadness]

I don’t think your nitrate and phosphates are truly at zero “0”. If this was the case algae wouldn’t stand a chance and your chaeto would essentially die off. Do you have any photos of the tank in it’s current state?

agreed. the true ppm of your phosphate and nitrates are trapped within the algae which is quickly consuming what is available to them.
this is a common issue with new setups that lack the biological balance and stability you get a couple of years in. a lot of headway can be made by manually removing as much algae as you can prior to water changes and then sticking to your low input of nutrients. be aware that it isn't going to happen quickly so settle in and keep dedicated to the effort but also watch your coral as underfeeding the system has its own negative results.

[Llorgon]

And here are the photos I forgot to post last night.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/6fbeb330cb08d5a711f214ba3e656bed.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/d0bc525c2bd98da793a70fea558fe645.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/52175c059d6ee14e69ec98ebe41fec1f.jpg

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[WarDog]

How old is the tank?

[Llorgon]

It's been running since June. So not that old.

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[DKoKoMan]

Looks like a brown cyano bacteria. Your tank is very new and will most likely battle through these stages.

[Llorgon]

I think it's partially cyano and also dinoflagellates. I brought some to j&l and I was told definitely dinoflagellates...

So I am trying 3 day blackout to see if that helps at all.

Also bought some pods since I was reading they can help out by eating it as well.

The dinoflagellates would explain some snail losses I have been experiencing lately.

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[DKoKoMan]

It definitely could be dino’s as well. This is common when nutrients are out of whack and a newly cycled tank. You can try a blackout although I personally think it will just be one of those things you have to ride out. Your tank just needs the time to balance out.

[Llorgon]

I suspect you are right, but I figured trying the blackout for a few days can't hurt. Maybe it will help a little bit.

I was also told Dino's like clean water so I am going to try and bring nitrates up a bit.

[Skimmer Juice]

are you using rodi water ? running gfo ? I would be vacuuming the sand while doing weekly water changes , remove as much as you can manually . Stay consistent with your water changes and dosing . Stay away from adding different chemicals/aids to try and get rid of . But if you are using rodi , make sure your filters and membrane is good .

[Dash]

+1 on vacuuming sand. I do this every water change - if I’m taking out water might as well be the yucky stuff. Really solved my nitrate problem when my tank was new. Also blowing off rocks with turkey baster once in a while, or brushing off rocks before vacuuming. I was too chicken to add anything to tank that I couldn’t test for. Just a lot of elbow grease and patience.

[Llorgon]

are you using rodi water ? running gfo ? I would be vacuuming the sand while doing weekly water changes , remove as much as you can manually . Stay consistent with your water changes and dosing . Stay away from adding different chemicals/aids to try and get rid of . But if you are using rodi , make sure your filters and membrane is good .


Using RO/DI, filters are all 6 months old. I think they should be good still. Not sure how you tell. No gfo.


+1 on vacuuming sand. I do this every water change - if I’m taking out water might as well be the yucky stuff. Really solved my nitrate problem when my tank was new. Also blowing off rocks with turkey baster once in a while, or brushing off rocks before vacuuming. I was too chicken to add anything to tank that I couldn’t test for. Just a lot of elbow grease and patience.


I have been blowing off the rocks and stirring/blowing the sand during water changes with a turkey baster.


So I should be doing water changes? At j&l they all told me stop the water changes because it like very clean water so I should try to raise my nitrates a bit. Although that might be to encourage more easier to deal with algae to start growing.

[Mattyb]

I’ve battled Dino’s and they suck. Prob the worst thing in the hobby. Firstly u need to find out what strain they are. There is a huge forum on these on reef2reef. Also Devon from “reefdudes” just posted on battling Dino’s on his Facebook page that can help too. I would start with blackout and then start dosing hydrogen peroxide (1ml per 10 gallons I believe). Filter sand everyday but don’t throw the filtered water out. Just run it through a filter sock and back into the tank. I would start dosing phosphate and nitrate and get the tank as dirty as possible to start growing other algae’s so it outcompetes them. Definitely go to reef2reef though and do some research. Good luck

[Llorgon]

I’ve battled Dino’s and they suck. Prob the worst thing in the hobby. Firstly u need to find out what strain they are. There is a huge forum on these on reef2reef. Also Devon from “reefdudes” just posted on battling Dino’s on his Facebook page that can help too. I would start with blackout and then start dosing hydrogen peroxide (1ml per 10 gallons I believe). Filter sand everyday but don’t throw the filtered water out. Just run it through a filter sock and back into the tank. I would start dosing phosphate and nitrate and get the tank as dirty as possible to start growing other algae’s so it outcompetes them. Definitely go to reef2reef though and do some research. Good luck


Thanks! Going through those forums now.


Will hydrogen peroxide kill any pods, fish, coral in the tank?

[Frogger]

Thanks! Going through those forums now.


Will hydrogen peroxide kill any pods, fish, coral in the tank?

Depends on the dosage. Hydrogen Peroxide will kill everything if the dosage is too high. I have used it before, very effective at controlling the non-parasitic flatworms, did nothing for my bryopsis (reason for using), not sure how it works on dinos.

I beat dinos by adding a magnum micron filter, a UV sterilizer, added daily dosages of KNO3 and turkey basted the rocks every time I saw dinos start to appear. I had to change the magnum cartridge daily when I first started. Took a couple weeks to get it under control. This worked for me, it might not work for you, every tank is different and there are many different causes of Dinos

I have not ever let my nitrates and phosphates get to zero again.

[Llorgon]

Depends on the dosage. Hydrogen Peroxide will kill everything if the dosage is too high. I have used it before, very effective at controlling the non-parasitic flatworms, did nothing for my bryopsis (reason for using), not sure how it works on dinos.

I beat dinos by adding a magnum micron filter, a UV sterilizer, added daily dosages of KNO3 and turkey basted the rocks every time I saw dinos start to appear. I had to change the magnum cartridge daily when I first started. Took a couple weeks to get it under control. This worked for me, it might not work for you, every tank is different and there are many different causes of Dinos

I have not ever let my nitrates and phosphates get to zero again.


I know see why people say don't let nitrates and phosphates get to zero. What did you use for dosing KNO3?


I have been blowing off the rocks and everything with a turkey baster. Hasn't done much yet. Does keep it off the corals though.

[kyl]

Potassium nitrate from a FW guy in Richmond is the "cleanest" source.

[Frogger]

I know see why people say don't let nitrates and phosphates get to zero. What did you use for dosing KNO3?


I have been blowing off the rocks and everything with a turkey baster. Hasn't done much yet. Does keep it off the corals though.

From what I read if you do not filter out the dinos and and/or kill them with UV sterilizer than they just regrow somewhere else. It is important to slow the flow through your UV sterilizer down, it is contact time that kills them.

[Llorgon]

From what I read if you do not filter out the dinos and and/or kill them with UV sterilizer than they just regrow somewhere else. It is important to slow the flow through your UV sterilizer down, it is contact time that kills them.


I think you are correct. From what I have been reading, dirty water helps reduce them. They can be caused when nitrates and phosphates go down to zero(which mine appear to be).



So I think my steps will be:
Blackout for 3 days, currently on day 2.
Increase feedings to try and help build up nitrates/phosphates
Added a filter sock which I will clean daily
Pickup some nitrate and or phosphate supplements to help increase them
Suck up as much of the dinos as I can into a filter sock and bucket. Then return that water to the tank.
Turn off skimmer? Not sure if this is needed or not.


Unfortunately I don't have the budget for a uv sterilizer right now.

[ReefMadness]

that may work but I would microscope those dinos to rule out some treatment methods. amphidinium are more common and considerably easier to deal with than the prorocentrum I fought for over a year.
otherwise, affordable jebao uv sterilizers can be found on eBay that only require a pump and rather than nutrient loading the system the better road to me is just to start the stability routine through an easily repeatable feeding regimen and perhaps a new fish or 2. instability may well have got this mess started and doesn't help remedy it.

[Llorgon]

that may work but I would microscope those dinos to rule out some treatment methods. amphidinium are more common and considerably easier to deal with than the prorocentrum I fought for over a year.
otherwise, affordable jebao uv sterilizers can be found on eBay that only require a pump and rather than nutrient loading the system the better road to me is just to start the stability routine through an easily repeatable feeding regimen and perhaps a new fish or 2. instability may well have got this mess started and doesn't help remedy it.


I will have to pickup a microscope and look into those uv sterilizers. I don't have much room under the tank/in the sump so hopefully I can find one that fits.



Adding a couple fish is a good idea. Dinoflagellates are only toxic to snails, correct?

I'm sure instability started this. It's a relatively new tank and I am new to reefing. Figuring out what instability caused this seems to be tricky though.

[ReefMadness]

I will have to pickup a microscope and look into those uv sterilizers. I don't have much room under the tank/in the sump so hopefully I can find one that fits.



Adding a couple fish is a good idea. Dinoflagellates are only toxic to snails, correct?

I'm sure instability started this. It's a relatively new tank and I am new to reefing. Figuring out what instability caused this seems to be tricky though.

a new system lacks chemical and biological stability right out of the gate because of all the varying stages your rock and substrate (if you have any) are at in terms of maturing.
a lot of progress can be made with just rock solid consistent feeding and resisting the temptation to change things.
dinos described are toxic to "inverts" and I can confirm snails are on the list but I'm not entirely sure if it affects crabs or otherwise.
there is no catch all solution for beating dinos which is why I recommend scoping them. from there you can at least make decisions based on others success instead of spending, causing instability and getting frustrated.

[Llorgon]

a new system lacks chemical and biological stability right out of the gate because of all the varying stages your rock and substrate (if you have any) are at in terms of maturing.
a lot of progress can be made with just rock solid consistent feeding and resisting the temptation to change things.
dinos described are toxic to "inverts" and I can confirm snails are on the list but I'm not entirely sure if it affects crabs or otherwise.
there is no catch all solution for beating dinos which is why I recommend scoping them. from there you can at least make decisions based on others success instead of spending, causing instability and getting frustrated.


That makes sense. My tank has been running since June. So still maturing. I am trying not to change too much at once. I am blowing off the rocks more and added a filter sock. Also went from feeding 1/4 cube once a day to feeding twice a day. Hopefully to try and bring nitrate and phosphates to not be 0.


I finished my 3 day blackout and the tank looks a bit better. Fish are fine, but corals aren't happy. My red plating montipora is losing tissue and my big green sps is looking very white. My tyree toadstool also isn't opening yet... Hopefully they will come back.

[Llorgon]

Update time. Picked up some phosphate and nitrate dosing from Frogger and he let me borrow his spare Hanna phosphate checker! Thanks Frogger!!

Been dosing nitrates and phosphates for the last week. I think I need to up the dosage since nitrates still reading under 5ppm and phosphates have gone from 10ppb to 15ppb. Might up it to dosing in the morning and at night.

As for the Dino's themselves, they are still there...but I am seeing more hair algae. Although it's brown until I blow off the rocks.

So far the Dino's have taken its toll on my cleanup crew and some of my corals. I lost my big green SPS, plating montipora and forest fire Digi after doing the 3 day blackout.

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[Frogger]

I don't think you need to go any higher on the dosing. The idea is to get readable amounts.

Right now without your cleanup crew your hair algae will take over your tank if your nutrients get any higher.

Did you get the UV sterilizer? Black Friday is less than a week away.

[Llorgon]

I don't think you need to go any higher on the dosing. The idea is to get readable amounts.

Right now without your cleanup crew your hair algae will take over your tank if your nutrients get any higher.

Did you get the UV sterilizer? Black Friday is less than a week away.


From reading through the massive thread on battling dinos on reef2reef they seem to recommend ≥0.10 ppm PO4 and ≥5-10 ppm NO3. Seems to be the parameters people have the most success with. From what I can read the GHA is a sign that the tank is leveling out. There is usually a increase in the dinos, then the other algaes slowly start to grow and out compete it. I will have to try and slowly add a few cuc members back as the other algae grows to battle it. But I will wait for more of the dinos to go away first.


I haven't picked up a UV sterilizer yet. I need to get my hands on a microscope first so I can see what kind of dinos I have. Apparently there is one type that doesn't get into the water column and UV sterilizers aren't useful for it. Plus I was hoping to get some hanna test kits on black friday. Will have to see.

[ReefMadness]

From reading through the massive thread on battling dinos on reef2reef they seem to recommend ≥0.10 ppm PO4 and ≥5-10 ppm NO3. Seems to be the parameters people have the most success with. From what I can read the GHA is a sign that the tank is leveling out. There is usually a increase in the dinos, then the other algaes slowly start to grow and out compete it. I will have to try and slowly add a few cuc members back as the other algae grows to battle it. But I will wait for more of the dinos to go away first.
I haven't picked up a UV sterilizer yet. I need to get my hands on a microscope first so I can see what kind of dinos I have. Apparently there is one type that doesn't get into the water column and UV sterilizers aren't useful for it. Plus I was hoping to get some hanna test kits on black friday. Will have to see.
R2R is also where I got my information and how I decided on treatment. it's great that you're going follow up on the microscope which is really the most important part.
as you mentioned a UV will be very effective on water column species like amphidinium and you may not even need any further treatment. this is obviously what you're hoping for as some of the people I followed had horrible issues for months and once they added the UV were able to clear their tank in the first few nights.
Unfortunately, UV will have little to no effect at all on prorocentrum which stay in the substrate and where you're better off to establish an environment that encourages algae growth that is too nutrient rich for dinos. this can (and did in the case of my tank) take months where you have a really poor looking tank that is overrun with algae if you don't have something that eats a lot of it.
Also, I don't know if I mentioned it earlier but you can cut a little of the toxicity your inverts take on by running a little activated carbon in the meantime.
good luck!

[Llorgon]

R2R is also where I got my information and how I decided on treatment. it's great that you're going follow up on the microscope which is really the most important part.
as you mentioned a UV will be very effective on water column species like amphidinium and you may not even need any further treatment. this is obviously what you're hoping for as some of the people I followed had horrible issues for months and once they added the UV were able to clear their tank in the first few nights.
Unfortunately, UV will have little to no effect at all on prorocentrum which stay in the substrate and where you're better off to establish an environment that encourages algae growth that is too nutrient rich for dinos. this can (and did in the case of my tank) take months where you have a really poor looking tank that is overrun with algae if you don't have something that eats a lot of it.
Also, I don't know if I mentioned it earlier but you can cut a little of the toxicity your inverts take on by running a little activated carbon in the meantime.
good luck!


I'm thinking I might try bringing a sample of the dinos to J&l and see if I can get an ID that way. Then I don't need to go out and buy a microscope. I was looking in the tank last night and I do see some dinos floating in the water. Not sure if that means they are the water column species though.



I have been looking into UV sterilizers. I have very limited room under my tank, but I found a few in tank UV sterilizers that aren't expensive and have decent reviews. So I might try that if it turns out the dinos are the ones in the water column.


I have found I am having trouble getting my nitrate and phosphate up and keeping it up. The stuff I got for dosing is supposed to be quite potent, but man, am I using a lot of it twice a day and numbers aren't really moving. Although I think this is to be expected for awhile.

[Llorgon]

Question. Would a 9W in tank UV sterilizer be too small for my 75 gallon tank. I found a slightly used one for $35. Just wondering if it would be too small to be any good or not.

[ReefMadness]

Question. Would a 9W in tank UV sterilizer be too small for my 75 gallon tank. I found a slightly used one for $35. Just wondering if it would be too small to be any good or not.

you really need to ID the culprit before you choose the treatment.
I don't see a problem with raising your nutrients a bit as zero is a bad place to be for a newer system but growing copious amounts of algae isn't a good idea if you don't have to. same thing for the UV, at this point you don't know for certain if its even required.
I found a children's microscope kit for $23 on amazon that would suit your issue just fine and if you consider the potential for future coral losses due to dinos it is honestly a steal.
also, I understand your urgency to repair the issue but you still have to keep the tanks stability in mind continuously and act methodically. making a bunch of changes and disrupting the biological and chemical stability of the system just sets you back and is the short road to big problems.
you could probably solve a lot of low nutrient issues just simply by adding some new livestock that create waste and letting the tank adjust.

[Llorgon]

Took a sample of the Dino's to j&l and took some pictures the best I could under the microscope. Still trying to figure out exactly what kind they are.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181122/4e362ff7c94b179dbd020f77a6403e62.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181122/886e5d1243608b199ecd5aede5bb1867.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181122/ae7b9b5b7ccaf89993f1e455db64e942.jpg

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[DKoKoMan]

Pretty neat photos! Glad J&L was able to help you out with the microscope.

[Llorgon]

Pretty neat photos! Glad J&L was able to help you out with the microscope.


It was interesting watching them under the microscope. They move aroud more than I expected.


I think I found a positive id on them from comparing picture on the reef2reef thread. Looks like Prorocentrum. Which I belive means UV won't be effective and I will be in for a long fight...

[DKoKoMan]

I would start with getting nitrates 5-10ppm and phosphates at 0.03-0.08ppm. Just maintain this and let’s hope they burn themselves out.

[ReefMadness]

It was interesting watching them under the microscope. They move aroud more than I expected.


I think I found a positive id on them from comparing picture on the reef2reef thread. Looks like Prorocentrum. Which I belive means UV won't be effective and I will be in for a long fight...
good that you got an ID on them and you're right, while I would never tell a hobbiest a UV sterilizer is a waste it certainly isn't going to be helpful for this substrate dwelling issue.
I would start with getting nitrates 5-10ppm and phosphates at 0.03-0.08ppm. Just maintain this and let’s hope they burn themselves out.
I like these numbers when times are good but its safer to just shoot for 10ppm NO3 and .10ppm PO4 when dinos are concerned. the idea is to promote the growth of competition (algae) and leave an environment unsuitable for the issue.
good luck!

[Llorgon]

good that you got an ID on them and you're right, while I would never tell a hobbiest a UV sterilizer is a waste it certainly isn't going to be helpful for this substrate dwelling issue.

I like these numbers when times are good but its safer to just shoot for 10ppm NO3 and .10ppm PO4 when dinos are concerned. the idea is to promote the growth of competition (algae) and leave an environment unsuitable for the issue.
good luck!


5-10ppm NO3 and .10 PO4 is easier said than done so far. Right now my tank seems to be using a large amount of both and I'm having trouble getting it anywhere near those numbers so far.


I think that is expected at the start though. I have just been upping the dose until I see the numbers I want and they stick.

[Llorgon]

I have started to see a reduction in dinos on the sand bed. Especially in the mornings. So I'm hoping the dosing is doing something. The rocks are still as brown as can be though.

I've noticed that leaving the Dino's alone and not stirring the sand and blowing off the rocks seems to help more than stirring and blowing. The tank looks good after, but they always come back more afterwards.

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[Llorgon]

Tested my water last night. 10ppm nitrate and 161ppb/0.494ppm phosphate.


Rocks are still super brown, but I see white patches of sand!


Most corals are doing ok. My anemone isn't looking great as it roams around the tank though.

[Razor Ramon]

Very good thread, a lot of help here, this will help many refers to come to!
Not an easy thing but you will win .
I’m batting a similar war . I haven’t gone to the black out yet, but I have hit them With peroxide as well as filtering as much of it out of the tank with filter floss daily, using my turkey baster and a very soft artist brush.
Get as much out of the system because they release poisons into the water carbon is a must .I added filter pads that removes po4 and one for no3 that I change every week.
Also I added to the rain of fire is two bacteria strains one for new rank other for breaking down wast,and 3 turbo snails and 2 emerald crabs.
Wet protein skimming all the time . I should have taken pictures but I’m on my way to defeating this beast.
Hope this will help a little keep at it !
RAZOR RAMON

[Razor Ramon]

One other thing I am doing is reduced lighting by a couple hours and run blues only ,might help .

[Llorgon]

Very good thread, a lot of help here, this will help many refers to come to!
Not an easy thing but you will win .
I’m batting a similar war . I haven’t gone to the black out yet, but I have hit them With peroxide as well as filtering as much of it out of the tank with filter floss daily, using my turkey baster and a very soft artist brush.
Get as much out of the system because they release poisons into the water carbon is a must .I added filter pads that removes po4 and one for no3 that I change every week.
Also I added to the rain of fire is two bacteria strains one for new rank other for breaking down wast,and 3 turbo snails and 2 emerald crabs.
Wet protein skimming all the time . I should have taken pictures but I’m on my way to defeating this beast.
Hope this will help a little keep at it !
RAZOR RAMON


I wouldn't bother with the blackout. In my experience and from what I have been reading it doesn't do much. It knocks them back for a day and that's about it. And if your corals are already stressed(which mine were) you will lose them.


I didn't have much luck with using the turkey baster on the rocks and sand originally. Just made them worse. Siphoning them out does help though.


Did the snails and crabs help at all? Mine won't eat the stuff.



Have the filter pads that removes po4 and one for no3 worked for you? My dino outbreak was caused from po4 and no3 being at or very near 0. It isn't until I have had them at 10ppm and 0.5ppm for a week that the dinos are disappearing.


I have been taking some photos along the way. I should post them..

[DKoKoMan]

That’s great that your in range for your nutrient level. Hopefully you can continue to dose, keep them there and battle these out of your tank.

[Razor Ramon]

The system I have is new and a lot is going on . The corals are Zoas from another tank and already had algae on them so the Dino’s would attach to it . The crabs and snails eat the algae after the Dino’s are blown off .
The nitrate and phos pads are keeping the levels in check for algae blooms .
The bacteria,low blue light,dosing peroxide and filtering seems to be the answer to the Dino’s .
It is defiantly a balancing act between bacteria , algae’s , Dino’s .
I think it just takes time and the effort to work it out .

[Llorgon]

The system I have is new and a lot is going on . The corals are Zoas from another tank and already had algae on them so the Dino’s would attach to it . The crabs and snails eat the algae after the Dino’s are blown off .
The nitrate and phos pads are keeping the levels in check for algae blooms .
The bacteria,low blue light,dosing peroxide and filtering seems to be the answer to the Dino’s .
It is defiantly a balancing act between bacteria , algae’s , Dino’s .
I think it just takes time and the effort to work it out .


Interesting. The blue lights didn't do much for me in the fight against dinos. I never tried peroxide. I am kind of scared to try it.


I have been having good results so far with elevating nitrate and phosphate. The dinos are almost completely gone off the rocks, rocks are getting a nice coating of green on them with some hair algae here and there. There is still a light brown coating every day, but not long and stringy stuff like it was.


The sand is a bit more tricky it seems. Dinos are still growing on it, but not as quickly or as bad. I can see some white sand now. No other algae seems to be taking hold on the sand as of yet.


My nitrate and phosphate are high, but my chaeto seems to be shrinking. Any ideas on getting it growing? I would have assumed it would be growing pretty well with all the extra nutrients. I have a LED grow light above the refugium that comes on opposite of the display tank lights.

[Frogger]

Chaeto can be temperamental at the best of times, that is why I use an ATS, never could get the chaeto to take off.

Sounds like you are winning the battle, competition is the key once you have a good balance in your tank the dinos will slowly recede. Dinos are usually around in most tanks but it is only under certain circumstances that they seem to grow out of control.

Slow and steady wins the race. Every day you are becoming a better reef tank aquarist. Good work in hanging in there.

[Razor Ramon]

Just keep at it as long as it’s going in a positive way . If not try something else .
3%Peroxide I dosed 2x recomeded dose because I have a lot of experience using it with my Zoas.
Safe dose is 5ml for 30 gallons of water . I did 10ml /30 gallons for 2 days then skipped a day then another 2 days for over a week . Added a lot of the bacteria in a bottle , two different types .
I’m keeping my nitrate and phosphate as low as I can . The clean up crew are eating the green stuff . Lot of turkey baster and filter floss to catch the particles.
Dino are about 95% done in green algae 80% consumed . I’m almost there Zoas are on the way to recovery .
I saw a huge move the right direction in my case when dosing the bacteria they consume the same food source as the Dino and the algae’s .
I also am using a rio hang on protein skimmer it dose skim a little I guess lol
Very wet skim like week tea .
I did put chetta from my main tanks sump in the aquarium under the light in one corner of the tank and added podes from my sons culture for his clowns.
I feel like you have to starve this bad stuff out , it’s a balance between a food source , bacteria , algea ,dinos. Remove the food have something to eat the sources. I’m not a expert and I’m learning as I go .
Like I said before so many good reefers here and they do help and have been trough it .

[gregzz4]

Don't worry right now about peroxide dosing or the fact that your chaeto is dying off.
Just keep your methods going forward.
Too many things at 1 time ...
Chaeto doesn't always live.
Stick with what you are doing for the next month.
Then make changes.
I've told you many times, slow and steady and nothing good happens fast in a reef tank :-)

[gregzz4]

Just keep at it as long as it’s going in a positive way . If not try something else .
First off, that's the worst advice I've ever read. Try it 1 way but if it doesn't work, then go the other way ..

Secondly, you should keep your advice about peroxide away from people with new tanks.
Your advice is going to nuke new tanks

Watch what advice you give here as people trust this site and many of us here have years of knowledge.
We don't need you ruining the site reputation.

[ReefMadness]

First off, that's the worst advice I've ever read. Try it 1 way but if it doesn't work, then go the other way ..

Secondly, you should keep your advice about peroxide away from people with new tanks.
Your advice is going to nuke new tanks

Watch what advice you give here as people trust this site and many of us here have years of knowledge.
We don't need you ruining the site reputation.

not to pile on but I agree, especially in the case of Dinos where even being on the right path requires more than giving the system a few days to resolve things before changing tactics.
in a hobby that rewards consistency of practices and patience the worst advice I can think of is to encourage irritability.

[Razor Ramon]

Look slow and steady your guys are right . I meant if you miss understood.
If things are improving keep on that path . Other wise you’ll have to try something else but I should have added the good things don’t happen over night it takes time .you guys give good advice ! I dealing with the Dino break out too on a new system . There is many ways to get to the end goal of a stable system
And that’s where we would like to get to and it dos t happen over night .iv been battling this for over a month on this new system . Sorry if I ****ed you off this morning . This isn’t advice it’s just my journey to beat the Dino’s

[WarDog]

We don't need you ruining the site reputation.

This site has a reputation? Hmm.

[Llorgon]

Chaeto can be temperamental at the best of times, that is why I use an ATS, never could get the chaeto to take off.

Sounds like you are winning the battle, competition is the key once you have a good balance in your tank the dinos will slowly recede. Dinos are usually around in most tanks but it is only under certain circumstances that they seem to grow out of control.

Slow and steady wins the race. Every day you are becoming a better reef tank aquarist. Good work in hanging in there.


The dinos are definitely getting out competed on the rocks, sand not so much. Thanks for the words of encouragement! I hope one day to have a tank with colourful corals and not brown algae.


Just keep at it as long as it’s going in a positive way . If not try something else .
3%Peroxide I dosed 2x recomeded dose because I have a lot of experience using it with my Zoas.
Safe dose is 5ml for 30 gallons of water . I did 10ml /30 gallons for 2 days then skipped a day then another 2 days for over a week . Added a lot of the bacteria in a bottle , two different types .
I’m keeping my nitrate and phosphate as low as I can . The clean up crew are eating the green stuff . Lot of turkey baster and filter floss to catch the particles.
Dino are about 95% done in green algae 80% consumed . I’m almost there Zoas are on the way to recovery .
I saw a huge move the right direction in my case when dosing the bacteria they consume the same food source as the Dino and the algae’s .
I also am using a rio hang on protein skimmer it dose skim a little I guess lol
Very wet skim like week tea .
I did put chetta from my main tanks sump in the aquarium under the light in one corner of the tank and added podes from my sons culture for his clowns.
I feel like you have to starve this bad stuff out , it’s a balance between a food source , bacteria , algea ,dinos. Remove the food have something to eat the sources. I’m not a expert and I’m learning as I go .
Like I said before so many good reefers here and they do help and have been trough it .


I have read lots of people have had success with adding certain pods and bacteria to the tank. What kind of bacteria and pods were you adding? I will hold off on the peroxide as a last resort.


Don't worry right now about peroxide dosing or the fact that your chaeto is dying off.
Just keep your methods going forward.
Too many things at 1 time ...
Chaeto doesn't always live.
Stick with what you are doing for the next month.
Then make changes.
I've told you many times, slow and steady and nothing good happens fast in a reef tank :-)


The chaeto has been in the tank for a few months now. Just been slowly shrinking. I thought it would have started to really grow when I raised the nitrates and phosphates. I am trying to go slow, just looking to see what other steps I can take in the future if things aren't improving.


I have been taking pictures daily and while the rocks are doing pretty good for dinos the sand seems to be holding steady the last few days. Nitrates are still at around 15 ppm and phosphates is 0.5ppm.



I am still making my way through the giant reef2reef thread on dinos. One thing that seems to really help a lot of people once nitrates and phosphates are raised is adding more biodiversity to the tank. What is the best way of doing that? I see most people just add a bit of live rock to the tank, but that comes with it's own risks I think.

[Razor Ramon]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181207/84ab9cfce4a7f92aa8ca5740fe038109.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181207/923fceece5ade73956600f7d103959d1.jpgseachem is my go to the best but they were sold out so I used the Big Al, I am wet skimming as well.
The pods are a live mix of the differnt ones sold at most marine stores rotifers as well my son is using them for his clown breading and got the culture from another Breader

[Llorgon]

Thanks. Not much info review wise for those aquavitro products. They have been around for awhile it seems.


How would you say they have worked for you?

[Frogger]

Not to sure that rotifers (planktonic) are going to help with bio-diversity in your tank. For the most part they are a salt lake organism (like brine shrimp), that only survives for a very short period inside out tanks before they are either eaten, sucked over the overflow or die because of lack of phytoplankton in the water. If your interested I have a culture of these.

Benthic tropical copepods (ALGAGEN PODS TISBE) available at J&L would be your best choice if you were interested in adding pods for biodiversity as they can survive and reproduce in our tanks living off of detritus and algae.

[Razor Ramon]

It is part of the balance in a reef for sure . Yes it helped in my battle agents the Dino.
Please don’t think it will be cure bottle ,it’s not it’s just part of the key to a stable system it’s always a can help to out compete other non disiaribles in your system as well it’s boosting the right types of bacteria that aids in cycling .
Many reefers add beneficial bacteria on a on going base trough liquids or salt mixes .
Stick to the method that you have been doing only thing I would stress is to try to filter as much out of the system every day .

[Llorgon]

It is part of the balance in a reef for sure . Yes it helped in my battle agents the Dino.
Please don’t think it will be cure bottle ,it’s not it’s just part of the key to a stable system it’s always a can help to out compete other non disiaribles in your system as well it’s boosting the right types of bacteria that aids in cycling .
Many reefers add beneficial bacteria on a on going base trough liquids or salt mixes .
Stick to the method that you have been doing only thing I would stress is to try to filter as much out of the system every day .


I understand, but if it could at least help I would be interested in it.


I have a feeling dinos probably killed off any pods I had in the tank. I don't see any of them around at night when the lights are off. Most of my cleanup crew died so I assume the same thing happened to the pods. I have added them a few times so I would expect to see some of them.

I think I have to start building things up from the ground up.

[Razor Ramon]

I have read your whole build thread as well a this one in full .
You have to hang in there , it’s going to take some time. The tank is not stable. It’s a new system and the cycling can take some time for sure.
Some serious reef tanks don’t see corals for 6months. I would like to help in any way I can. The other guys that are here for you please chime in as well. Boosting
Your cycling bacteria is usually safe ,combined with wet skimming will aid in removing the dino that you dislodge with turkey baster and paint brushe. There are so many types of Dino’s a uv light will kill any free swimming stage Dino’s.
Maybe syphon as much of the sand out of the system and treat the sand in a bucket to kill Dino’s . Just a little brain storming can go along way.

[Razor Ramon]

To help aid in stability I would make sure your water source is good and do weekly water changes till you get the tank stable .
Testing water is always good to do but chasing numbers at this point with dosing is a bit much . I have had many coral tanks and added nothing except doing weekly water changes . Yes when the lps and sps get big then dosing calcium and alkalinity or calcium reactors are needed.

[Frogger]

To help aid in stability I would make sure your water source is good and do weekly water changes till you get the tank stable .
Testing water is always good to do but chasing numbers at this point with dosing is a bit much . I have had many coral tanks and added nothing except doing weekly water changes . Yes when the lps and sps get big then dosing calcium and alkalinity or calcium reactors are needed.

Hi sorry I disagree, doing water changes works for most algaes and even cyano but water changes does not help with dinos. Dinos thrive in clean water.

[Razor Ramon]

Ok that might be the case with the Dino the weekly water changes are a good means of exporting as much of the Dinos out of the system . Another problem with Dino’s is there is so many types that get there energy differently
As well as live differently.
Are we 100% sure that they are Dinos?

[Llorgon]

Not to sure that rotifers (planktonic) are going to help with bio-diversity in your tank. For the most part they are a salt lake organism (like brine shrimp), that only survives for a very short period inside out tanks before they are either eaten, sucked over the overflow or die because of lack of phytoplankton in the water. If your interested I have a culture of these.

Benthic tropical copepods (ALGAGEN PODS TISBE) available at J&L would be your best choice if you were interested in adding pods for biodiversity as they can survive and reproduce in our tanks living off of detritus and algae.


I have added the Algagen pods a couple times. Never seen them again after adding them though. I think that's what I need.


I have read your whole build thread as well a this one in full .
You have to hang in there , it’s going to take some time. The tank is not stable. It’s a new system and the cycling can take some time for sure.
Some serious reef tanks don’t see corals for 6months. I would like to help in any way I can. The other guys that are here for you please chime in as well. Boosting
Your cycling bacteria is usually safe ,combined with wet skimming will aid in removing the dino that you dislodge with turkey baster and paint brushe. There are so many types of Dino’s a uv light will kill any free swimming stage Dino’s.
Maybe syphon as much of the sand out of the system and treat the sand in a bucket to kill Dino’s . Just a little brain storming can go along way.


Ya I figured it would be quite awhile before anything is really stable. I think my cycling bacteria is fine. At least it is holding up to my stocking levels and feeding right now. It's everything else that I think has taken a hit from the dinos.

I have been removing as much as I can on a daily basis and I have a filter sock that I change daily after turkey basting the sand and rocks.

I did break down and buy a uv sterilizer. I have seen some people have some luck with it for my type of dinos so I figured I will give it a try. Just waiting for it to come now.


To help aid in stability I would make sure your water source is good and do weekly water changes till you get the tank stable .
Testing water is always good to do but chasing numbers at this point with dosing is a bit much . I have had many coral tanks and added nothing except doing weekly water changes . Yes when the lps and sps get big then dosing calcium and alkalinity or calcium reactors are needed.


My water is ok... I think. I have got the dosing thing down pretty much. I think I will hold off on water changes for now since I believe the dinos thrive in clean water. So water changes at this point might make things worse.

And yes, I am sure it's dinos. Took a sample to J&L to look at them under a microscope to get a positive ID.

[hfp75]

Have you considered using Vibrant ?

In reefing good things take time, bad things happen fast.....

Your tank is young..... when it eventually goes away, ask if what you did helped or if your tank has just become stable with time and they died....

......

[Razor Ramon]

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[Razor Ramon]

In nature they are not caused from clean waters and do not thrive there .
It may be differnt in closed systems , food for thought .

[Llorgon]

In nature they are not caused from clean waters and do not thrive there .
It may be differnt in closed systems , food for thought .


It might be different in a closed system. Honestly I am not sure. I am just going off of the information found on the huge dino thread on reef2reef. People seem to have the best results when they stop doing water changes and raise the nitrate and phosphate levels. People on the thread have also reported that dinos got worse after a water change.