Neptune auto top off failing

[Llorgon]

My neptune auto top off seems to be broken or is now failing.

It is standalone, had it for about 6 months with no issues.

This morning I checked my sump and found the water level was low. Checked my controller cabinet and the ATK didn't have a warning light on so I unplugged it and plugged it back in which got it filling again, but now it won't stop. Hits the first sensor and keeps going, hits the second sensor and keeps going. I even manually lifted the float swift as far up as I could. LED is green and pump is still going.

I wiped off the sensors and wiped off the float switch. Doesn't appear to be anything on them.

is my auto top off broken or just needs a good water and vinegar soak and scrub?

[JamRobo]

on your fusion dashboard is it set to ON or AUTO?


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[Llorgon]

on your fusion dashboard is it set to ON or AUTO?


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I have it as standalone. Since I don't have the apex controller yet.

[JamRobo]

I have it as standalone. Since I don't have the apex controller yet.oops missed that part...mine has done this kind of thing before even hooked up to the apex,

usually unplugging everything and re plugging in works.


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[Llorgon]

oops missed that part...mine has done this kind of thing before even hooked up to the apex,

usually unplugging everything and re plugging in works.


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Tried that. It immediately starts filling and the only way to stop it is to unplug the power.

[Llorgon]

Even pulling up the float valve as far as it will go doesn't stop the pump.

[JamRobo]

Even pulling up the float valve as far as it will go doesn't stop the pump.The float valve is in place just to stop the water flow from the pump in this case where the optical sensors have failed.
the pump will still run if the float if up /closed but no water will get into your sump once it's all the way up.
prevents overflowing basicly. sounds like some kind of electronic issue with the sensors, best to contact apex directly they will take care of you quickly.

good luck!

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[Llorgon]

The float valve is in place just to stop the water flow from the pump in this case where the optical sensors have failed.
the pump will still run if the float if up /closed but no water will get into your sump once it's all the way up.
prevents overflowing basicly. sounds like some kind of electronic issue with the sensors, best to contact apex directly they will take care of you quickly.

good luck!

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Oh I thought it was supposed to turn the pump off. Good to know.


I contacted apex support. Always seems to be something going wrong for me...

[ReefMadness]

Always seems to be something going wrong for me...

yea that's called reefing lol

[Llorgon]

yea that's called reefing lol


I had been keeping freshwater tanks since I was a kid. Most I have had break was a light and a clip for one of my external filters.


In 8 months or so of reef keeping, I have lost 2 power heads, 1 return pump controller and now 1 ATK unit. Frustrating!


Ran the Diagnostic test that neptune support sent me. I have to send it in since it seems to have a hardware issue. :cry:

[smokinreefer]

Oh hey, what test did they have you do?

I've had a hell of a time trying to get my apex controller ATK to run properly.

In doing so i've already had to replace the PMUP and purchase a solenoid.

I finally got it working for a few days and I was ecstatic.
But the other day I came home again, to what you are seeing.
Water topped off all the way up until the float stops it.

[Llorgon]

Oh hey, what test did they have you do?

I've had a hell of a time trying to get my apex controller ATK to run properly.

In doing so i've already had to replace the PMUP and purchase a solenoid.

I finally got it working for a few days and I was ecstatic.
But the other day I came home again, to what you are seeing.
Water topped off all the way up until the float stops it.It was a long list of stuff. I will pm it to you.

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[DKoKoMan]

My Neptune ATK acted up one time, similar to where it refused to top up my sump causing my return pump to blow bubbles. I took the sensors off, repositioned and unplugged. When I put it back on it seemed to be working fine. I’m a littler nervous with this ATK now, i purchased the Neptune ATK (known brand) to avoid any hassles.

I’m hoping I don’t fall victim next to these issues.

[Llorgon]

[QUOTE=DKoKoMan;1030233]My Neptune ATK acted up one time, similar to where it refused to top up my sump causing my return pump to blow bubbles. I took the sensors off, repositioned and unplugged. When I put it back on it seemed to be working fine. I

[kyl]

PMUP on that unit is a lemon and frequently the cause of failure for an ATK. The sensors can also go bad, or the module itself. Not the best of Neptune releases, I'd say their most unreliable product which is ironic since people purchase it solely for reliability.

If they insist you return the product for RMA that's another $20 or so to ship it out, something to keep in mind.

[tang daddy]

Man glad i didn’t buy one, sorry to hear about your frustrations....

[Frogger]

I am sorry to hear of your problems.

I think the most important feature of an Auto Top off is reliability. If you can't trust it where does that leave you, a disaster only a heart beat away.

Doesn't sound like the Neptune ATO fits those requirements based on the responses I am hearing from different reefers.

I stopped using my float value when I found it was unreliable and bit the bullet and purchased the best ATO available. Also building in a back up into your topoff is not a bad idea.

My back up is only having a day and a half worth of water in my topoff bucket. Even if it completely dumps all the water into the tank it will not throw out the salinity that much. Those reefers that hook the auto topoff directly up to their R/O system are tempting the gods.

[Llorgon]

PMUP on that unit is a lemon and frequently the cause of failure for an ATK. The sensors can also go bad, or the module itself. Not the best of Neptune releases, I'd say their most unreliable product which is ironic since people purchase it solely for reliability.

If they insist you return the product for RMA that's another $20 or so to ship it out, something to keep in mind.


In my case it's the module its-self.


They are shipping me a new one now. In a package with return postage. So I put down a $100 deposit which they hold until they get the broken unit back. Then I get the money back. As long as it isn't broken due to water or physical damage.


I am sorry to hear of your problems.

I think the most important feature of an Auto Top off is reliability. If you can't trust it where does that leave you, a disaster only a heart beat away.

Doesn't sound like the Neptune ATO fits those requirements based on the responses I am hearing from different reefers.

I stopped using my float value when I found it was unreliable and bit the bullet and purchased the best ATO available. Also building in a back up into your topoff is not a bad idea.

My back up is only having a day and a half worth of water in my topoff bucket. Even if it completely dumps all the water into the tank it will not throw out the salinity that much. Those reefers that hook the auto topoff directly up to their R/O system are tempting the gods.


Ya I have had a few issues with this ATO unit. Luckly I have always caught it before anything bad happened.



What ATO did you buy?


I usually have about a 1-3 days worth of water in my reservoir. Unless I am going on vacation and will be away for any period of time.

[Frogger]

I have a Tunze 3155 ATO that I have had for 3 years that I have been happy with.

[gregzz4]

I have a Tunze 3155 ATO that I have had for 3 years that I have been happy with.
Same here 6-1/2 years and counting. I replaced the pump once as it was getting noisy, but it was still pumping fine.
I added a high sump float to my RKE that will shut off the ATO in the event of a failure but so far so good.

[DKoKoMan]

I’m a little worried now! I bought the darn Neptune ATK for piece of mind and dependability. It now seems like I should have just went for the Tunze.

[Llorgon]

I’m a little worried now! I bought the darn Neptune ATK for piece of mind and dependability. It now seems like I should have just went for the Tunze.


Possibly. Although I have had some bad luck with equipment so far. It had been pretty good up until this point.

[smokinreefer]

Oh hey, what test did they have you do?

I've had a hell of a time trying to get my apex controller ATK to run properly.

In doing so i've already had to replace the PMUP and purchase a solenoid.

I finally got it working for a few days and I was ecstatic.
But the other day I came home again, to what you are seeing.
Water topped off all the way up until the float stops it.

Fwiw, after that day where it did fill until the float valve shut it off, it has been working fine. I didn't touch it either. But I've been checking every day and waterline is at the first sensor!

Previous to this i used tunze for several years. It lasted about 6years. Needing to replace the pump 2 or 3 times.

Before that I used a simple gravity fed top off with float valve.

[blacknife]

I went with the atk thinking the optical sensors would be great, i had them fail while on the road, bought replacements.. had them fail.. then finally when laid off had time to contact neptune support. the internal webpages never updated properly when i first installed the unit and failed optical sensors. they sent me 4 new ones, 2 new ones on my ato, and the 2 old but working ones into my resivoir.. 2-3 months later in the last week or so... both of the ones in the resivoir are failing and i think the one im using for high water is stuck in my ato. when i get some spare funds its time to go back to mechanical floats i guess, right now its a good thing im not working as i can manually fix my top off system. neptune support was excelent to deal with, I guess it might be time to open another ticket.


I still have my origonal jbj unit, its second set of floats are done, i got the atk so i could "SEE" that its working when i am on the road.. instead i could just see that its not working.

[Llorgon]

I went with the atk thinking the optical sensors would be great, i had them fail while on the road, bought replacements.. had them fail.. then finally when laid off had time to contact neptune support. the internal webpages never updated properly when i first installed the unit and failed optical sensors. they sent me 4 new ones, 2 new ones on my ato, and the 2 old but working ones into my resivoir.. 2-3 months later in the last week or so... both of the ones in the resivoir are failing and i think the one im using for high water is stuck in my ato. when i get some spare funds its time to go back to mechanical floats i guess, right now its a good thing im not working as i can manually fix my top off system. neptune support was excelent to deal with, I guess it might be time to open another ticket.


I still have my origonal jbj unit, its second set of floats are done, i got the atk so i could "SEE" that its working when i am on the road.. instead i could just see that its not working.


I got the ATK for the optical sensors as well. Although in my case, it's the fmm module itself that died. Still annoying to have to wait a week plus for the new one to come.

[Llorgon]

Update if anyone is interested.


I finally got my replacement ATK module from FedEx today. They had it for a week when I called about it. Apparently they didn't have my buzzer number so it just wasn't delivered and they never bothered to call... Anyways. Plugged in the new module and same thing happened. Keeps filling even if both sensors are completely submerged. So back to customer support I go...


I guess I should have bought the tunze auto top off...

[gregzz4]

Holee crap.
I hope you get it sorted bud. What a pain.
Nothing like spending good money only to get kicked in the nads.

Have you thought about asking for your money back?
If I were in your shoes, I'd be screaming bloody murder for my money back and wash my hands of the whole experience.

[smokinreefer]

Whoa that sucks.

But maybe something else is awry?
I'm new to controllers and I'll tell ya there's quite the learning curve and I found it quite frustrating to figure out on my own.

For my set up, my top up reservoir (brute can) has a water level higher than my sump, so although the ATK comes with a check valve, I needed to get the solenoid to make it work properly.

[scherzo]

I had multiple problems too. Apparently forums everywhere people are reporting issues.

I had sensor #2 fail - they replaced it.
Then my PMUP went bad - had it replaced.

Working now for 2 weeks -s that is good.

I think if I ever have my sensors replaced I might put some silicone on the back of it where the wire enters the sensor. I did this with my old DIY float switch ATO that ran for 8 years. It may be a point of failure.

The PMUP might be a bad design - so if it fails again (if I reach outside of my warranty period) I'll just rig up a different pump. But then essentially I'd be only using the ATK for the optical sensor.

It is frustrating - thousands of dollars spent on the Apex system - pretty happy over the 8/9 years I've had it - but has not been a smooth experience for the ATK.

[Llorgon]

Whoa that sucks.

But maybe something else is awry?
I'm new to controllers and I'll tell ya there's quite the learning curve and I found it quite frustrating to figure out on my own.

For my set up, my top up reservoir (brute can) has a water level higher than my sump, so although the ATK comes with a check valve, I needed to get the solenoid to make it work properly.


It could be that something else is up. I haven't changed my setup and it was working for 6 months and then stopped.

My reservoir also has a water level higher than the sump when filled up, but right now it's far lower and it still keeps the pump going.


I think the neptune people are a little unsure as well.


I had multiple problems too. Apparently forums everywhere people are reporting issues.

I had sensor #2 fail - they replaced it.
Then my PMUP went bad - had it replaced.

Working now for 2 weeks -s that is good.

I think if I ever have my sensors replaced I might put some silicone on the back of it where the wire enters the sensor. I did this with my old DIY float switch ATO that ran for 8 years. It may be a point of failure.

The PMUP might be a bad design - so if it fails again (if I reach outside of my warranty period) I'll just rig up a different pump. But then essentially I'd be only using the ATK for the optical sensor.

It is frustrating - thousands of dollars spent on the Apex system - pretty happy over the 8/9 years I've had it - but has not been a smooth experience for the ATK.


Ya I have noticed lots of people having issues with this. Really annoying since it's so expensive. I am wondering if it's one of my sensors that has gone since I can have them both under the water and the thing is still on and pumping water.


As a update. I have a video call( I guess they escalated) with neptune support on Thursday. Will have to see what comes of it. Really tempted to just ask for my money back and get the tunze ATO. They seem to have good reviews.

[Llorgon]

Update!


I ended up having to send everything in to Neptune to take a look at it. Finally heard back today and was told the issue is:

1. The sensors were not completely pushed into the bezel. Apparently if the sensor doesn't stick out 1/8" then it will read as open.


2. The sensors were labeled incorrectly. So the high water sensor was labeled as the low level one and vice versa.



The sensors being labeled wrong seems odd to me. It had been working fine for 6 months. Wouldn't I always hear the high water alarm if the high water sensor was in fact in the wrong place?


I'm also confused on how both sensors would have come out from the bezel. I would assume it would take a bit of force and it had just been sitting in the sump and one day stopped working. Vibrations maybe slowly loosened it?


Either way I am getting my deposit back and should have my now working ATK unit in about a week or so.

[Frogger]

They seem to have pretty good customer support. They haven't given up on you like most companies that have zero customer support.

Sounds like a company I would be willing to purchase a controller from just won't buy their ATO.

[Llorgon]

They seem to have pretty good customer support. They haven't given up on you like most companies that have zero customer support.

Sounds like a company I would be willing to purchase a controller from just won't buy their ATO.


I can't say anything bad about their customer support. They are quick to answer any of your questions. They have pretty good troubleshooting docs as well.



As frustrating as it is having something like this go wrong. It was a pretty painless experience getting it to and from them. Except for fedEx not having my buzzer number and instead of calling they just keep the package for a week until I call them...

[kyl]

They seem to have pretty good customer support. They haven't given up on you like most companies that have zero customer support.

Sounds like a company I would be willing to purchase a controller from just won't buy their ATO.

Their ATO is only worth tempting if using the additional ports on the FMM imo. Else, that pump is a big liability of the unit, versus a Tunze 3155 which basically just works almost forever.

[smokinreefer]

Their ATO is only worth tempting if using the additional ports on the FMM imo. Else, that pump is a big liability of the unit, versus a Tunze 3155 which basically just works almost forever.

Not too sure what your trying to say about the FMM?

I've heard comments about the netune PMUP, but isn't the pump the high failure point on all ATO set ups?

I had replaced the pump on my Tunze ATO several times in the past as well. But I wouldn't say the tunze was bad because of it.

[gregzz4]

I had replaced the pump on my Tunze ATO several times in the past
Not to turn this into a 3155 thread, but my pumps last for 5-6 years if I don't run them dry, and I don't use Kalk.
I have 2 Tunze units running without issue.