PDA

View Full Version : White tips on SPS


Llorgon
08-28-2018, 06:04 AM
I got a SPS coral last week and all the tips of it seem to now have white tips.

I tested my water and my parameters were
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrates - almost 5ppm
pH - 8.2
Phosphates - 0
Alkalinity - 6.4

It's a newer tank. I have some corals, snails and 2 clown fish.

I'm guessing alkalinity might be the issue?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180828/a7025f8b1a51f3730d30138e28c19dc7.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

WarDog
08-28-2018, 02:29 PM
ALK too low.

Llorgon
08-28-2018, 03:34 PM
What would be the best way to raise the alkalinity? Larger water change or dosing?

WarDog
08-28-2018, 03:37 PM
Bring it up slowely 0.5 dkh per day by dosing would be my choice. Also get calcium and magnesium test kits when you can. What salt are you using?

Llorgon
08-28-2018, 04:03 PM
Bring it up slowely 0.5 dkh per day by dosing would be my choice. Also get calcium and magnesium test kits when you can. What salt are you using?




I'm using the instant ocean salt(purple). I'm guessing the reef crystals one is better?


I will see if I can pickup some more test kits tomorrow night.


Until I can get some dosing stuff, would baking soda be an acceptable way to raise the alkalinity? Or does that just work for freshwater?

Frogger
08-28-2018, 04:10 PM
If you are growing any scleractinian corals (stoney corals), snails, clams, coraline algae, etc you need to be adding a balanced calcium and alkalinity supplement.

The easiest way is a balanced calcium chloride, sodium bicarbonate/carbonate additive. Work slowly to find a balance ideally between 7 and 10 dkh and 400 to 440ppm calcium.

Also having truly no phosphates can be a problem that will cause the tips to go white and dieback. Reduce GFO if you are using it.

Frogger
08-28-2018, 04:13 PM
Adding just baking soda could create an imbalance in calcium. Your inhabitants that are lowering the alkalinity are lowering your calcium at a balanced amount.

Llorgon
08-28-2018, 04:35 PM
If you are growing any scleractinian corals (stoney corals), snails, clams, coraline algae, etc you need to be adding a balanced calcium and alkalinity supplement.

The easiest way is a balanced calcium chloride, sodium bicarbonate/carbonate additive. Work slowly to find a balance ideally between 7 and 10 dkh and 400 to 440ppm calcium.

Also having truly no phosphates can be a problem that will cause the tips to go white and dieback. Reduce GFO if you are using it.

Adding just baking soda could create an imbalance in calcium. Your inhabitants that are lowering the alkalinity are lowering your calcium at a balanced amount.


Ok good to know. I didn't think I had enough in the tank to need supplements.

I have no GFO running. I do have carbon though. Also have a skimmer. Should I shut that off for awhile?

WarDog
08-28-2018, 05:00 PM
I just skimmed your tank thread and I think you might be going a bit too fast. When starting a new tank you need to be patient with the cycle first. Then start stocking with fish, and lastly coral. You also seemed to go a little gung ho with sps. You definately need to have all your test kits, parameters and chemicals for dosing in order before tackling sps.... at least if you are new to salt water. Also, regular water changes with IO (10 - 25% every 2 or 3 weeks) should keep your Alk around 8 to 10, depending on your coral load.

Llorgon
08-28-2018, 06:23 PM
I just skimmed your tank thread and I think you might be going a bit too fast. When starting a new tank you need to be patient with the cycle first. Then start stocking with fish, and lastly coral. You also seemed to go a little gung ho with sps. You definately need to have all your test kits, parameters and chemicals for dosing in order before tackling sps.... at least if you are new to salt water. Also, regular water changes with IO (10 - 25% every 2 or 3 weeks) should keep your Alk around 8 to 10, depending on your coral load.Ahh I thought I was going slow! But I guess I need to go slower.

I went the other way around coral and then fish after the tank cycled...

I change the water once a week. But only 10 gal water change. Probably need to do a bigger water change?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

WarDog
08-28-2018, 06:39 PM
How many gals is the system volume?

Llorgon
08-28-2018, 06:46 PM
75 gal tank + 20 gal sump

WarDog
08-28-2018, 06:55 PM
I would do a couple 20 gals a week w/c and see what effects it has. 10 gals per week should be good but you need to get your parameters up.

gregzz4
08-29-2018, 03:34 AM
Get those other test kits and test all your params.
Start a log for your tank. PM me with your e-mail if you want a copy of my Excel spreadsheet.

Corals need fish poop, or expensive additives.

My thoughts on params;
Alk 8-8.5
Cal 400-420
Mag 1350
Nitrates 1-10 Max. 5 is good. Mine is 0
Phosphates 0.03. Mine fluctuates between 0.00 and 0.002
The balance between NO3 and PO4 is key to coral success, so read about it.

The other key is stability. As Frogger wrote, when your Alk drops, so does your Ca.
Get kits, test 2-3 days in a row to find what is being used, then calculate what your tank needs daily.
Use the online calculator if you can find your product on the list
http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

For now, get some stuff from J&L and balance your tank using the online calculator. Get the simple to use stuff to start with EI: liquids or easy to measure powders. Once you get a grip on that I'll teach you about the home-made powders.

I'll tell you about how to use baking soda, and I'm selling calcium in bulk.
But this will come after you understand the whole process.

Llorgon
08-29-2018, 04:30 AM
Thanks for the info. I will get reading.

I am heading g to j&l tomorrow after work to get some test kits.

Had no idea I should do fish first!

I tested a batch of fresh saltwater and the alkalinity was about 12.2 or so. I'm really surprised 8 snails and 12 frags(3sps) would cause that much of a difference in alkalinity. Thought I would have more time before dosing.

Or I guess I need more fish.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

gregzz4
08-29-2018, 04:38 AM
I use over 1 gallon of alk and 1 gallon of ca monthly.
Once you start dosing you'll realise what that means.

Test your newly made water before adding it to your tank. Test your tank.
Then, with a spreadsheet, you'll see what you need to do to adjust your water.

Off to bed.
We can talk later.

Frogger
08-29-2018, 05:53 AM
As Greg said keep a log/spreadsheet of your test values.

Down the road it will be invaluable because you will be able to see trends and see where you were at when things were good and where you were at when things were bad.

Also keep track of when you purchase corals, fish, who you bought them from, when you add or change equipment, change bulbs, change additives etc.

I have weekly log dating back 3 years to when I first started my tank. I can easily see the good and the bad and remember the disappointments. You can also easily measure coral growth. Pictures help too.

Llorgon
08-30-2018, 12:55 AM
Log book is a good idea. I will try and do that!

I'm always good at starting it, but then eventually fall off and forget to do it. Looks like there are some apps for this exact thing. Will have to give them a try.

Off to j&l now, any recommendations on what sort of dosing stuff I should pick up? This will be my only time to make it out this week so need to make sure I get the right stuff.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

WarDog
08-30-2018, 12:59 AM
If John is there talk to him (ponytail) and he should be able to steer you in the right direction. Just don't mention my name. Lol.

Llorgon
08-30-2018, 04:19 AM
Alright, picked up some test kits and dosing supplements today.

Tests came back as:
Calcium - 340
Magnesium - 1470

Image of the the dosing supplements below.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180830/a4f8e81dc2d03652d7f52c835b0ff017.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Llorgon
09-06-2018, 04:20 AM
So been away for a few days, got back last night and tested my water today.

ALK - 6.1
Cal - 340
Mag - 1110

Before I left on Friday my params we're

ALK - 6.4
Cal - 340
Mag - 1170

No matter how much magnesium supplement I add I can't seem to get the magnesium up.

Also found a good reef tank log app for Android. Gives you graphs and all sorts of stuff. It's called aquarium note.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

WarDog
09-06-2018, 05:24 AM
Your numbers are very low. I'd do a large water change. Magnesium is one of the hardest to increase independantly. Understand that Alk, Ca and Mag are all tied together, it's hard to increase one without increasing the others. Gregzz4 is one of the most knowledgeable members here in regards to reef chemistry (that I know). Pick his brain. Lol.

Dash
09-06-2018, 06:45 AM
Hey Llorgon..how are my frags🙂
I just started dosing this March. I also tried using the same Brightwell products at first & found it didn’t work well for me. First of all, I needed fairly large doses initially to bring the low numbers up and the bottles were quickly depleted before the numbers were even where I wanted them to be.

After looking at various options I decided the BRS stuff was the simplest for me. I used their calculator and watched the instructional videos to walk me through. Those initial doses were quite hefty but necessary to get the parameters up there. I’m happy with their product, both for cost and ease of use. Not sure if you buy a lot from U.S. online though.

Llorgon
09-06-2018, 03:58 PM
Your numbers are very low. I'd do a large water change. Magnesium is one of the hardest to increase independantly. Understand that Alk, Ca and Mag are all tied together, it's hard to increase one without increasing the others. Gregzz4 is one of the most knowledgeable members here in regards to reef chemistry (that I know). Pick his brain. Lol.


I have been reading up on the water chemistry and how they all work together. Also been talking to Greg. I really need a bigger bucket. I only have two 5 gallon buckets for water changes so it's lots of small water changes.


Hey Llorgon..how are my frags🙂
I just started dosing this March. I also tried using the same Brightwell products at first & found it didn’t work well for me. First of all, I needed fairly large doses initially to bring the low numbers up and the bottles were quickly depleted before the numbers were even where I wanted them to be.

After looking at various options I decided the BRS stuff was the simplest for me. I used their calculator and watched the instructional videos to walk me through. Those initial doses were quite hefty but necessary to get the parameters up there. I’m happy with their product, both for cost and ease of use. Not sure if you buy a lot from U.S. online though.


Hey Dash, Frags are all still alive! So that's good right?

The zoas are doing well, same with the green mushroom type coral, can't remember the name of it. Forest fire digi has some new growth. The pink birdsnest is about the same maybe lost some colour, but I'm guessing that is from my water params being out of whack.


Thanks for the advice on the dosing. I will look into the BRS. I bought the Brightwell stuff because the lady at J&L said it was the best and easiest to start with. But hasn't moved the needle on params much at all.

Dash
09-06-2018, 10:15 PM
Same here...I used up my two bottles and it didn't do anything. The BRS stuff did exactly what it was supposed to do. And I think cost-wise, it's not very far off. I bought the "starter package" and followed that up with larger size bags when it went on sale. I guess experienced reefers have more cost-effective methods but for a newbie like myself, it was easy to use.

gregzz4
09-07-2018, 12:00 AM
I guess experienced reefers have more cost-effective methods
I'll be talking with Llorgon tonight to help him out.

Dash, I have bulk Calcium for sale, and can help you out with turning baking soda into soda ash.
For Mag I use J&L's Reefcrest Chloride and Sulphate stuff. Crystals, not flake. It mixes well and stays mixed compared to others I've used in the past, including epsom salts.
If you want to know more, PM me your cell

Ya Dude
09-07-2018, 12:30 AM
Take the math and experimenting with dfferent products out of the process and get a calcium reactor
It raises all three elements evenly and steady once dialed in

gregzz4
09-07-2018, 01:17 AM
Calcium reactors aren't for everyone, nor can everyone afford reliable equipment for said units.
If you're as anal as I am, how do you adjust your newly mixed water that's out of whack before you do a waterchange?
pH probes and CO2 regulators can fail and if ignored things go out of whack.
And they can be a bit complex for newbies.
Dialing in and keeping Mag levels with a Ca reactor isn't that easy either. What happens if you add too much Mag media? Shut down the reactor until tank Mag drops? Remove all media and remix new stuff? Or keep taking it apart to add more media until it's adding enough to your tank?
I thought years ago about getting a setup and decided against it.
They work great for many people, but aren't for me.
Liquid dosing is a great way for newbs to start understanding their tank's chemistry.

gregzz4
09-07-2018, 04:17 AM
Take the math and experimenting with dfferent products out of the process and get a calcium reactor
It raises all three elements evenly and steady once dialed in
You've been reefing a long time ...
Ever thought about writing a tutorial for Calcium Reactors?
I'd be interested to read it, as I'm sure many others would too

Dash
09-07-2018, 06:23 AM
Thanks Greg - might take you up on that some day

The BRS “2-part” dosing should really be called 3-part as there’s a Mag component. My parameters are now stable & it’s easy to maintain despite my not owning an auto doser yet.

Llorgon
09-11-2018, 03:31 AM
Alright, been pretty busy lately and away all weekend, but I have been dosing 2 caps of brightwell A and B every day while adding large amounts of the magnesium supplements.

So Thursday night, Friday night and Sunday night I dosed the brightwell A and B and mag. My params tonight were

ALK - 7.3
Cal - 340
Mag - 1260

So slowly seeing the numbers go up! Although calcium hasn't moved at all.

Hoping to make it to j&l sometime this week to pickup the dosing stuff Greg recommended.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Frogger
09-11-2018, 07:50 AM
Calcium is tougher to raise than Alkalinity. When my calcium dropped to around 380 I had to add a lot of calcium over several weeks to bring it back up to 410.

gregzz4
09-11-2018, 01:31 PM
You're doing OK. Keep at it and once you raise your Mag another 100 points your Ca will be easier to work with

crimper
09-16-2018, 12:22 AM
Take the math and experimenting with dfferent products out of the process and get a calcium reactor
It raises all three elements evenly and steady once dialed in

"When dialed in." that is the hard part..

Ya Dude, here's the math for CaRx I'm running one.

Reliable Reactor cost me $600ish (Geo)
Reliable Regulator $400ish (Carbon Doser)
CO2 Tank $100ish
Ph controller $300ish++up(I use my Apex Jr)

This setup with all the bells and whistles that I thrown out in there and still a struggle to make the Alk stable as the effluent keeps on clogging. I need to shell another $350ish to buy a reliable peristaltic pump to have a constant effluent.

Advising that kind of setup for a newbie doesn't justify the need for it while you can have the same results by using a $100 doser. besides his 75 tank is fairly new and not worth running a CaRx.

I'm not saying this is the only way, but if you don't wanna be fidgetting your CaRx setup every so often to tune your effluent to get a stable Alk then shell out that amount of money and get this setup.

Sorry I dont intend to create a debate here on dosers vs CaRx and I know Llorgon is already been taken good care of by GregZ, but i thought it would be helpful for newbies to know the cost of running a reliable CaRx.

Oh by the way I still need to dose Mag as it drops every so often to balance my parameters.

my 2 cents

Ya Dude
09-18-2018, 12:59 AM
Ya I agree, I have a large tank so I think it works better in that case
I only ever tweek the effluent every month or so and add tech M.
It’s been reliable for me so I’ll just stick with it, if it ain’t broke ...

Llorgon
09-19-2018, 10:40 PM
Ok, bit of a update.


Thanks to Gregs help my water parameters are getting back on track. I tested my new saltwater and my params for it were:
Alk - 9
cal - 390
mag - 1050


As of last night my tank water params were:
Alk - 9.3
cal - 380
mag - 1350


Still need to get the calcium up, but at least the magnesium is where it should be now.

DKoKoMan
09-20-2018, 12:23 AM
Definitely on the right track and Gregzz has an awesome tank so your getting sound advice :biggrin:

gregzz4
09-20-2018, 01:42 AM
Ok, bit of a update.


Thanks to Gregs help my water parameters are getting back on track. I tested my new saltwater and my params for it were:
Alk - 9
cal - 390
mag - 1050


As of last night my tank water params were:
Alk - 9.3
cal - 380
mag - 1350


Still need to get the calcium up, but at least the magnesium is where it should be now.
Looks like 1 of your tests was off a tad. A 10g water change wouldn't make the Alk higher than it was before the change ...
I use IO regular and it's been about 10.2 to 10.5 @ 1.026 in the last 3-4 buckets.
Did you test the DT before the WC?

As we spoke about today, go ahead and bring your Ca up tonight.

Definitely on the right track and Gregzz has an awesome tank so your getting sound advice :biggrin:
Oh stop, you're makin' me blush :redface: