Vibrant, nitrates and my experiences. The good, the bad and the ugly

[Frogger]

A little over a month ago I started adding Vibrant to my reef tank. I have added a very low dose every second week. Two weeks ago I added my 3rd dose.

The reason I added Vibrant was I had a small amount of hair algae growing in my tank and I just wanted to keep it under control.

My tank is a 75 gallon reefer mostly sps (acros). It is a very very low nutrient tank, not by choice, just because my tank exports nutrients very well. I have been adding nitrates and phosphates regularly to my tank. Started adding nitrates to control phosphates. Needed to add phosphates because adding nitrates removed all phosphates (not good another story).

I add a lot of nitrates and I still cannot get a nitrate reading on Red Sea Pro test kit. But it helped with my coral colours and health exponentially. It also helps me to control phosphates from being all over the planet.

After the second dose of Vibrant I started to notice my phosphates were rising up really high. So I stopped adding phosphates. My phosphates kept increasing (getting a reading of 50+ Hanna ULR). At about this time I started noticing my coral colours not so bright.

My next step was to start adding more nitrate to the tank to try to stabilize the phosphates. After the 3rd dose I started to notice my coraline algae pealing off the back glass in sheets. My alkalinity (2 part) usage dropped to a fraction of what it was several weeks ago. My phosphates were still high. The colour of my corals are pale. One thing to note is I haven't had to clean my glass in about 3 weeks and there is nothing growing on it.

I was getting a bit concerned so I started doing research and it appears I am not the only one running into this problem. It appears that Vibrant is designed for reefers with high nutrients especially nitrates. It appears that the bacteria in Vibrant are aggressively using the nitrates. In my system because it is a low nutrient system that is not good because no nitrates= poor color, slow growth and high phosphates.

In the past 3 days I have been adding enormous amounts of nitrates and my phosphates have come down, I am now adding enormous amounts of nitrates and some phosphates and things are turning around. My alkalinity usage (2 part) has started to increase towards normal usage.

Conclusions
I like what Vibrant does and the affects on unwanted algae growth is. I feel I need to have a better understanding of the processes within my tank when I chose to put a new additive into it. Also trashing Vibrant claiming that it crashed my tank without fully understanding how or why is not fair to the product. These are my experiences and my experiences only, yours might be completely different.

Other reefers experiences with Vibrant are welcome.

[Myka]

Thanks for sharing your experiences! The low nutrient issue isn't something I was aware of. I guess every medication has its drawbacks.

Curious, why didn't you just add more clean up crew for the hair algae?

[Frogger]

Curious, why didn't you just add more clean up crew for the hair algae?

Not quite the simple. I have multiple tanks and I primarily got the Vibrant for my 35 gallon reef that has been set up for 17 years, has a deep sand bed and a lot of nutrients in the tank. For that tank it is working like a charm

I all ready have hundreds of snails and a couple tangs in my larger tank. Don't like hermit crabs. I am considering adding a melanarus wrasse (other issues that need controlling) to the tank and am concerned he will make lunch with my smaller strombus snails. I want to make sure the hair algae doesn't take hold if he reduces the snail population.

I decided to try the Vibrant (as I already had it) at below the absolute lowest dose recommended 1ml per 10 gallons once every 2 weeks. I started with half of that and worked up to 6mls added to a 75 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump in the last dose added which was 10 days ago.

[gregzz4]

Thanks for the info Glenn
Good luck with it

[JamRobo]

Vibrant now also has a few new products
-nitrate balance
Meant to control you nitrates while dosing vibrant reef cleaner.

- chroma color
Maintains and regains color for corals in ultra low nutrient tanks.

I have yet to use the two new products but I've been using vibrant when I started my 8x4 coral tank. It definitely does work.

[Frogger]

Vibrant now also has a few new products
-nitrate balance
Meant to control you nitrates while dosing vibrant reef cleaner.

- chroma color
Maintains and regains color for corals in ultra low nutrient tanks.


Not ready to try all this new snake oil. I will let someone else be the guinea pig.

It is my understanding that the company that makes Vibrant is actually a fish tank maintenance business who lucked into the product almost by accident. Not sure if i want them developing and doing the scientific research on new products for me.

[Myka]

I am considering adding a melanarus wrasse (other issues that need controlling) to the tank and am concerned he will make lunch with my smaller strombus snails.

Fwiw, I had a Grey Head Wrasse (bought as a female Melanurus haha) which is like a bigger version of the Melanurus, and he didn't touch any snails or the Scarlet Hermits. Very few fish will bother Conchs (Strombus), so I don't think you'll have any trouble there. Also, the Scarlet Hermits and many of my snails are 5-8 years old and the Scarlets only bother the Cerith Snails (they kill maybe 1-2 a year). Scarlets are also really good for hair algae. Scarlets can't be lumped in with other hermits - they are great! :)

[Animal-Chin]

Don't know if you're adding a wrasse due to aefw but I added a yellow wrasse and it demolished them! Just my experience, thought I'd throw it out there...

[Llorgon]

I have been trying out vibrant for the last 4 months on my 10 gallon. Originally it was to help get a massive bubble algae outbreak under control.

Can't say I have noticed much of a difference between dosing it and not.

I started with their recommended dosage a couple times a week for a month. - No changes.

Changed my water source, kept dosing, got control of bubble algae, but cyno took over and killed all but 3 corals. Since that happened I have been playing around with the dosage and I don't see any difference. Gone up to 5ml 3X week with no changes to anything at all. Remaining corals are doing ok and algae is still growing, but slowly.

[Frogger]

Don't know if you're adding a wrasse due to aefw but I added a yellow wrasse and it demolished them! Just my experience, thought I'd throw it out there...
No don't have AEFW (or at least not that I know, I am extremely paranoid).

I have monti nudibranch I also have some very small copepods (not red bugs) on some of my acropora.

[gregzz4]

Any updates from anyone on Vibrant?

All I can find on the web, aside from the flood of 'good' reviews, is a few notes about tank crashes.

In the meantime, I think I'll stick with managing NO3/PO4 levels through dosing, and I'm liking results from adding amino acids

[straightrazorguy]

Thanks for the info! I'd like an update on Vibrant too!




In the meantime, I think I'll stick with managing NO3/PO4 levels through dosing, and I'm liking results from adding amino acids


What kinds of amino acids are you using Greg? Where can I find some info on aminos?

[hillbillyreefer]

I’ve been using it since June at 1ml/10 gallons every 4 days trying to eradicate a years old gha problem. At the start I had undetectable nitrates and virtually undetectable Phos using a Hanna ULR.

Anytime I’ve had SPS brown out or STN start I’ve done something else stupid, like badly fluctuate alk. I don’t attribute any of the problems to the Vibrant. My LPS has receded somewhat and not grown much it’s all still alive, I assume Vibrant has contributed to that but probably isn’t the only factor.

There was a ball of Cheato in the sump. After a couple months it simply disintegrated and disappeared. At this point my Phos and nitrate spiked. Phos went to about .44ppm and nitrates were at about 5ppm. Lanthanum chloride was used to drop the Phos.(I’m guessing this contributed to some stn and browning of the sps.) Remove all your macro algae’s before starting the dosing.

As the cheato decayed the GHA had a slight resurgence in growth rates for about 10days.

Overall the gha has basically quit growing, has receded and not returned on some small patches. The war hasn’t been won yet but slowly the battles are. When I started with the vibrant some bubble algae had begun to grow on a new frag, after a couple months of dosing it just disappeared overnight never to return. My water is crystal clear, glass doesn’t need cleaning as often, except for the coraline algae whose growth seems to have accelerated.

My nitrates are back to undetectable and phos is back down to .01ppm last test. The tank gets a small dose of KNO3 daily. I haven’t had any Dino problems yet, but anticipate them showing up when/if the gha finally succumbs.

I’m happy with the results so far, about to open my second bottle. It’s been the only solution I’ve found that has even put a dent in the GHA. If it rids the tank of the gha I’ll be dancing naked in the streets(I live in the middle of nowhere, you won’t see it on the news).

It’s like any other additive, weigh the pros and cons, make sure you have a good reason to use it and introduce it slowly.

[OurCoralReef]

Thanks very interesting

[hfp75]

Vibrant almost destroyed one of my tanks....

Beware....

[hillbillyreefer]

Vibrant almost destroyed one of my tanks....

Beware....

Can you elaborate on what happened?

[lastlight]

I battled horrendous hair algae for at least 6 months. I was doing religious manual pruning. I'll admit my monthly water changes probably weren't enough. I reduced my feeding and kept up with the manual removal. Talking wire brushes and tweezers for hours each week. I then dosed vibrant once and I swear in about 24 hours the difference was unreal. I've done a weekly dose for a month now and I'm back to spoiling my fish with the food and I actually haven't got a single patch of algae anymore. At times I could barely see my rock it was so bad. Perhaps things reached some magical equilibrium but the timing makes that very unlikely. I'm now dosing weekly but at a much smaller amount.

[DKoKoMan]

Vibrant almost destroyed one of my tanks....

Beware....

Please share, even if it’s bad at least it’s out there.

[gregzz4]

What kinds of amino acids are you using Greg? Where can I find some info on aminos?
I've been using TLF AcroPower. I used to add Brightwell's to my frozen food but am now manually dosing to document/monitor the effects.
It's only been a couple weeks so no solid info as of yet.

[Frogger]

I tried Acropower for a while but found it was ending up being food for cyano.

As stated at the beginning of this thread. I tried Vibrant but instead of helping with the GHA it started my year and a half battle with cyano. I have good periods and bad periods with the cyano. I have to vacuum it out at least once every 2 weeks right now (bad period) or it starts to take over the tank. I removed my sand bed last year as it was one of the culprits.

Still have GHA that I also vacuum out once every 2 weeks. The green hair algae only grows is many small patches and hasn't really spread.

It is not nutrients or water flow that cause the cyano and the GHA. I believe it is the lack of nutrients and unstable nature of the nutrients in the tank. I have to manually add nitrates and phosphates or they quickly zero out causing not only the corals to look like crap but the cyano from growing crazy.

Not sure why I feed heavy enough, do not over skim and have enough fish. I can't find a fish/ snail/ urchin that will make an effort to eat the GHA.

[gregzz4]

I agree with you Glenn that it's definately a balancing act with nutrients, but also beneficial bacterias.
When I first started dosing nitrogen and phosphorus, you were the first to agree that it's needed. Since then, I've not needed to run either GFO or Carbon.
And, after I balanced mine, I stopped dosing both NO3 or PO4 products. My tank balanced itself with fish load, SPS and just a filter sock with a decent-skimmer.

With that in mind, I'm considering adding some bacteria to my new tank(started 2 mths ago). Either I'll use Seachem Pristine, or something similar such as MB7. Haven't decided yet. If we could buy DR Tim's I'd consider it too.

As for GHA/Cyano, in my last tank (shut down before summer) I had great success with as above; decent skimming, a sock changed weekly, a bi-weekly water change, and some hit/miss rock turkey basting. I even stopped cleaning the sand. It got to the point where if I didn't like the look of the sand, I'd just siphon the top off and replace it with new - maybe 10lbs once/year.

Near the end before I shut the tank down for a re-do last spring, I was getting some hair algae and cyano, but only due to me not basting the rock and cleaning the sand.

I went 3 years without gha/cyano issues before I got lazy.

So, I feel that with a decent WC schedule/filter sock changes/clean rocks and sand when needed, we should be able to keep our tanks balanced without spending $40/cup for a product that might/may throw our tanks completely out of balance.

I feel that, with the 'right' kind of bacteria that won't upset my SPS, my tank will be balanced for years as it was between my restart in 2016 and this last shutdown 2019.

I currently have some bacterial 'mulm' on my LR that is gobbling up enough of the nutrients in my water to upset my SPS, causing them to pale some, and leaving a 'sludge' all over my rocks and sand.
This weekend, I'm planning on adding either MB7 or Pristine in small doses to clear this up and see what happens.

Maybe this should have been posted in a different thread, but it's relevant to Vibrant's claims of removing 'sludge'

[gregzz4]

Glenn, balancing the bacteria in our tanks is difficult.
Some eat the nutrients which algae love, and some eat those which Cyano loves.
This is why I'm on this new trek to find what product will add the necessary bacterias which will out-compete nuisance stuff, yet still keep my SPS happy by not out-competing them.

Thus far, adding nitrogen and phosphorus has fuelled the brown crap, so I stopped that dosing.

I've also tried dried coral foods and phyto foods. Didn't document any change as that was all happening during the liquid dosing phase, so was all part of the ugly after-affects.

Since then, the only thing beyond frozen foods that has kept my corals happy-ish and returns their colors is liquid amminos. This still fuels the brown crap, but at a much slower rate, and my SPS are finally starting to look 'correct'.

I'll report back when I find which bacterial additive works for me.

[hfp75]

I was having a bit of GHA and GBA and was struggling. I tried Vibrant, and it worked, the GHA and almost all of the GBA went away, when I started to tapper back the Vibrant it took like 2-3 days and everything started to look bad, then my one Frogspawn melted followed by a torch and few other things. I had a fish die - probably from the ammonia/nitrites from the RTN of the LPS. Did a bunch of H2O changes and things settled down - then I got Dinos and lost another 2 fish.

I basically did a partial restart. I pulled out all the sand and about 2/3 of the rock. I had rock cooking and got new sand and presto we are in business. My tank never really did a cycle after the sand/rock replacement. I did 1/2 of the sand one week and the other half about 2 weeks later. So, now I have new sand and a bunch of new live rock. Tank looks good and I have restocked it with fish. Some corals, but the corals are not really all thriving, so my params are still normalizing. I'll give it another week and I will do a SUMP clean out too. This should be almost a full reset over a few week period.

In the end, I think that my initial problems from GHA/GBA were from a sand bed that had 2 problems, first it had sand that was too large in size - lets detritus collect, second it had been in for 4'ish yrs and was saturated and the detritus was fermenting there. New sand is a finer size, less likely to let detritus seep in...

My dinos are gone and I am keeping lighting low, corals light (not many), and getting fish established to get nutrients into the tank, once its a few months old I'll try more corals again... I have added in chaeto from my other tank and it slowly disintegrates - providing nutrients for the bacteria.

I noticed that my Dinos really took a hit when I started adding fish and Chaeto right into the main display and did a 3 days black out followed by really weak light. The tank looks good.... I am afraid the Dinos might return if I brighten up the lights or let my nutrients drop off... Good thing I can add in chaeto from the other tank...

I keep waiting for New Tank Syndrome, but so far it really hasn't happened... maybe my bacteria cultures from the old rock and sump have done their part and stabilized the tank.

In the end, Vibrant was a fix for a problem that needed an intervention. I should have just changed the sand initially. Could have saved a bunch of heartache. Vibrant is just a carbon source to rev up the bacteria..... then the bacteria consume more nutrients, in fact the goal is that the good bacteria will compete for nutrients - thus starving out algaes. Not a bad theory, but for me it came down to a nutrient problem, from an old sand bed.

I would be curious to know how to remove a carbon source from an aquarium that relies on it. Vibrant = Steroids (for bacteria) (When the Vibrant went away the bacteria went through a die off as they adjusted to the withdraw, and this in turn started a reaction of bad events)

[Frogger]

Greg you mentioned a few things that might be right. Bacteria is definitely a major player, considering Cyano is one. Good competition could be the long term solution. been trying mostly to do this chemical free as to not upset the bacteria levels any more than they are already out of wack.

Not too sure about maintenance required on a well balanced tank.

I have two main tanks. A 35 gallon reef tank with a deep sand bed that has been set up for 16+ years. All I run is a small tunze skimmer on it with good water flow. I currently do not have filter socks running on it. I have a wide range of corals in it some like my bonsai has been growing since the tank initially set up. I have had problems many years ago with this tank but now I do absolutely nothing to the tank. Change the water once every 6 months if I am lucky, add nothing other than 2 part to balance the alkalinity/calcium usage manually. Check the alkalinity/calcium levels once every month and they never change. This tank is ultra low maintenance. I currently do not even know what the nitrates or phosphates are, nor do I care.

The other tank is a 75 gallon reefer. It has been set up for about 4 years now. This is the one that I am having problems with and have trouble balancing the nutrients and alkalinity. I check the alkalinity almost daily change the water once every 1 to 2 weeks, check the PO3 twice a week and the nitrates once every week or so. The alkalinity usage fluctuates quite regularly and if I do not catch it right away the corals can go in a rapid decline. I add calcium and alkalinity via a doser. I try to keep both nitrates and phosphates at detectable amounts but have had serious issues (algae/cyano/ corals STNing) when I have tried elevating these levels.

I have been on Reef2Reef forms talking with some of the experts about it on cyano specific forms and nobody seems to have a full understanding of cyano. GHA is more an inconvenience that I can deal with.

The cyano can be another beast all together and if I am not careful dinos can be the end result, this (dinos) is why it is so important that I do not let me nutrients bottom out.

[hillbillyreefer]

Thanks for that hfp75, the more information out there the better, it doesn’t matter if it was a good or bad experience.

[gregzz4]

@hfp75
Thanks for posting your experience. This is why I am very hesitant to try Vibrant. Having a balance of both good and bad bacteria in our tanks is very important.
As you can attest to, something can go very wrong to one end of the 'scale', causing major issues or even loss of critters.
There's not a lot of info on the web about this that I can find, but I've suspected it.
Your input is greatly appreciated.

@Glenn and everyone else
On Sat I scrubbed my LR with a toothbrush and 'massaged' my sand, then when the water cleared I changed my sock.
Today, 2 days later, the 'mulm' on my rock and sand has not multiplied/spread so I feel this is a good time to try something different.
Tonight I have dosed MB7 @ the maintenance recommendation, and will do another in 1 week.
To keep my corals happy-ish, I will continue dosing TLF AcroPower @20ml/week.

Because I'm NOT dosing Vibrant, I'll move my comments to my build thread from here on.

[gregzz4]

@anyone looking to balance/re-balance the bacteria in their tanks, I've started a trek.
Check out my rebuild thread for dosing/results/updates
Greg's 75g Mixed Reef Rebuild Round 2 (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1038514#post1038514)

[Frogger]

I have a theory as to why Vibrant works for some tanks but causes problems in others. As mentioned earlier in this thread Vibrant acts like a fuel for nitrate burning bacteria similar to carbon dosing (vodka). When the tank is very low on nitrates the vibrant acts as a fuel for other bacteria like cyano.

So when you have high nitrates and this is the cause for the hair algae, Vibrant reduces the nitrates hence reduces the algae growth. But there are many reasons for algae growth and high nutrients is just one of them.

I have had a similar experience with vodka dosing before on a tank with very low nitrates.