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View Full Version : Blue Hippo Tang keeps getting ich.


joe pooh
08-14-2017, 09:21 PM
I picked up a small Blue Hippo Tang 3 months ago. Put him in quarantine for 3 weeks treated for ich and then put him in the main 130 gallon tank. 5 days later i see ich. Back in to quarantine for 3 weeks and treatment. In the main tank for a few days and more ich. back into quarantine. it spent 3 cycles in quarantine and is back in there again.

All other fish unaffected. 2 clowns, potters angel and a sleeper blue dot goby.

*the temp fluctuates a bit as i do not have a chiller, and the salinity changes a bit too as the water evaporates. but again, all other fish are unaffected.

Don't know if i should just give up on this guy or what?

ideas? advice?

JamRobo
08-14-2017, 09:23 PM
Could be black ich? Do they seem to start white then go black?


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F.H
08-14-2017, 10:05 PM
How are you treating for ich in quarantine?

If you rid it of ich in quarantine, then there is still ich in your display... so you're just adding it back into an infected tank and therefore it'll develop ich again.

You have to remove all fish from display, leave it fishless for 8 weeks, and treat all fish for ich in quarantine to be sure that it won't get ich again... even then it's not a guaranteed solution since there's a large margin for error.

joe pooh
08-14-2017, 11:09 PM
i had left the tank fishless for 8 weeks. Quarantined all fish for 3 weeks and treated for ich before introduction to the tank. this is what i dont understand.

if ich is a parasite and i starved it in the tank and killed it in all the fish, where did it come from? Even if the water quality was bad (it is not) the ich organism cant come out of thin air...

At this point i only have 1 10 gallon quarantine hospital tank so i cant take all the fish out for 8 weeks.

Bugger
08-14-2017, 11:44 PM
How bad is the infection? Some white spots are not always ich

Piscez
08-15-2017, 12:02 AM
Sounds like more a of a stress issue, I have 6 tangs which most tangs are prone to getting ich my hippo gets it almost every time I add another fish lol and usually goes away and never infects the other fish. The fish you have aren't prone to ich I'd leave it with the community and let it recover on it's own power

F.H
08-15-2017, 12:40 AM
treated for ich before introduction to the tank.

How? are you sure it was completely treated? sometimes it can remain in the gills without presenting itself on the body, etc.

kyl
08-15-2017, 02:15 AM
Correct fallow period for ich is 76 days, not 8 weeks. You're just re-introducing a fish to a DT that still has ich.

the ich organism cant come out of thin air...


Funny enough, aerosol transmission is a thing, and has been documented at up to 10 feet if tanks are in the same room.

Only two ways to completely eradicate cryptocaryon irritans in a tank; fallow without a fish to host on for 76 days, or chemically with copper or chloroquine phosphate. Both chemical methods will kill all your corals, inverts and with CP, all algae.

To remove it in fish is either via tank-transfer methodology for 12 days to stay ahead of the reproductive cycle, or chemically with copper / chloroquine phosphate. Research papers have identified hypo-salinity resistant strains of ich, so that's really not an option anymore. Any "reef safe" treatments are just that, treatments. They will not completely remove ich.

rsisvixen
08-15-2017, 02:44 AM
I find ttm the most effective way to prevent ich from getting into your system.

I ttm all my fish now.

kyl
08-15-2017, 02:53 AM
TTM is the best stress level wise, but you still need to watch out for marine velvet. On the plus side, you can also get rid of flukes during TTM with prazipro use, and flukes seem to be on pretty much everything these days.

rsisvixen
08-15-2017, 05:31 AM
Yes, I use paraguard, first container, prazi the next 3 and then paraguard to finish off-then QT for 3 weeks.

I haven't lost any fish from doing the ttm due to stress, and its run the range from mandarins to angels

Frogger
08-15-2017, 05:58 AM
I had a hippo tang for 16 years, he died last year. Every time the fish got stressed he would get ich. Usually that stress would be adding a new fish, happened 3 or 4 times over his life span. It was never really bad but you could just make it out. Always went away when his stress level dropped. No other fish in the tank ever got it that I could see. I never treated him and he lived a long healthy life.

Hippo tangs are highly susceptible to ich. The stress of moving him from your quarantine tank to your main tank is likely setting him off.

DKoKoMan
08-15-2017, 06:15 AM
My powder blue had gotten ich during the tank move. The water parameters contributed to the stress along with new fish and new environment. I monitored and observed the ich present and disappear. My powder has had no signs of ich since and no other fish had it.

IMO if it's showing up it's already in the tank, why rock the boat unless your fish is in distress. Sometimes the stress of moving back and forth as mentioned above can make it worse. As well hippo tangs and powder tangs are more sensitive and more prone to ich. Best of luck!

kien
08-15-2017, 05:49 PM
1. Quarantining is such a DUMB waste of time idea. I would like to know who the idiot was that started this and is passing this DUMB information along ?

2. Fish store ALREADY quarantined the fish. DUH !


1. Quarantining actually has many benefits. In the context of disease, it allows you to better isolate your affected fish so that you can attempt to remedy their situation. During the remedy period they will be highly stressed so isolating them (in quarantine) can go a long ways to helping them recover. That is, they aren't constantly being bullied by other strong fish. They aren't being out competed for food, they can be left alone to rest while they recover.

2. Not all fish stores quarantine (properly).

Animal-Chin
08-15-2017, 06:58 PM
Yea I don't know whats going on in Brandford but here in BC fish are not quarantined at the store. Most are for sale the morning after they arrive off the plane around here.

QT done properly is a great idea but most don't do it properly. The idea is a less stressful transition to your DT with a fish that is eating well and doesn't have parasites.

I tried a 20 gallon QT and think the stress of the stark small tank was causing more stress than good but I set it up because I brought in a Powder Brown tang that had marine velvet and it wiped out my entire tank, killed every fish in 7 days. Had I QT'd that fish, saw it had velvet and either helped it or let it die in QT I would have saved my entire population but back then I wasn't and I paid the price.

QT is not dumb nor started by idiots.

If I set up another (no need now, my tank is stocked) I would go for a 50 gallon bare bottom with lots of stuff to hide in. Keep the fish feeling safe and give it some room to move...

rsisvixen
08-15-2017, 07:26 PM
Also all fish do not carry ich.

Some fish like gobies and wrasses are resistant to ich and it is exceptionally rare for them to get it. Only roughly 10-20% of wild caught fish actually have ich, but due to everything kept in same holding tanks and then in same systems at pets stores, the problem escalates.

I haven't had any trouble with my 20g QT-had a juvenile emperor and an atlantic blue tang in there for 1-2 months-not at the same time-lol
Could be they were only 2 inches at that point.

In my personal opinion, better safe than sorry, just costs me an extra bit of time and space.

joe pooh
08-15-2017, 07:47 PM
Thank you all. When i drop the Tang into the tank the other fish give him a hard time. it's not like he is the new guy, they've all met before, but each time i put him back in from QT, it is like he has a kick me sign on his back.

I think that between that and the unstable temp and salinity the stress is too much for this guy. i even tried moving all the rocks around so nobody really has a territory to fight over. Nice fish, but i dont think i can meet his requirements.

I too think QT is an important part of the process. though i find it frustrating isolating my new fish for weeks before adding him to the main tank. At the same time i do not want to lose all my other fish. Seeing the ich and not taking him out would drive me crazy. maybe he will get better....maybe he will infect everybody else...

I foresee a trip back to the LFS for this guy once his time in QT has passed. dont think they will accept a sick fish.

rsisvixen
08-15-2017, 08:51 PM
At this point your DT probably has ich in it.
Ich is like the flu in a way (except its a parasite), if your immune system is high even though there are germs everywhere you won't get sick, your immune system is down you'll get the flu. Same for ich-fish that are healthy with good immune systems will rarely get ich, stress, low immunity and the fish will get ich. Also ich can be inside gill covers and you'll never know its there.

If you are QT'ing, and treat for ich, once treatment cycle is done you should still keep it in QT for awhile so it can recuperate. The treatment is stressful and then moving directly will stress it even further. Let it regain strength and health first. Feed garlic enriched foods to boost immune system.
I also use the NS ich shield pellets during my QT process

kien
08-15-2017, 10:28 PM
Trying to teach the teacher ?

A teacher should know better than to say that quarantining is "dumb" and a "waste of time". A teacher should also know better than to assume that all fish stores practice appropriate quarantining.

rsisvixen
08-15-2017, 11:01 PM
Everyone has their own way to do things that work for them, so calling people or their methods dumb is just not okay.

Research has concluded that: Quote from Marine Ich - Myths and Facts "Fish always have MI. Untrue. In the wild they often show up as 30% infected."

As ich has a fish free stage-namely cysts which last 60-76 days on the substrate, it points to the fact that there are periods where fish are indeed ich free as its a parasite-not a disease.

acepumping
08-16-2017, 12:19 AM
Man!! all I can say is when ibhad a breakout on my tank.. it was from a kole tang, it had nothing visible at time of purchase.. 8 months later. started seen specks...
then bam all the fish had it so bad, it killed 4 out of 8 fish.. but guess what, I QUARINTINED !!! saved the remainder..
so if you listen to this person.. beware!!.. he is giving the wrong info..
do I quarantine when I buy a fish? no
would I do it again if I had a break out? you bet..
in the new tank I'm setting up, I will be quarinting everything..

please don't listen to this person.. lots of benefits of taking caution...

calling people dumb.. lmfao.. what a tool!! go back to your local forums please

straightrazorguy
08-16-2017, 12:33 AM
I don't ever get involved in this kind of nonsense, but I feel like I have to! None of the local stores quarantine fish. So, they all have the potential to be sick or carry something. I ALWAYS quarantine all my fish, whether I get them from the store or trusted friends. I've had fish die in quarantine , but I've had zero outbreaks in all my years of fishkeeping...

Quarantine your fish, people!

rsisvixen
08-16-2017, 01:56 AM
Would like to point out that no one said lfs stores didn't treat the tanks, just that they don't quarantine. Two completely separate issues.

To answer your other question the QT period should be 4 weeks but thats adjustable based on a lot of factors.

And really, insulting and "yelling" your point at everyone is not the way to have a discussion.

kien
08-16-2017, 02:16 AM
:pop2:

kyl
08-16-2017, 02:49 AM
Wow this thread sure blew up!

I've gotten all three major problems on livestock bought locally over the last two years, two on something purchased last week if you want an example (ich / flukes). No LFS around here is going to run them through a full gamut of quarantine for ich, velvet and flukes (not to mention brooklynella, bacterial infections, internal parasites, a myriad of others), for the proper duration and utilizing contamination controls that would also be required (room separated tanks, sanitizing all equipment, etc). At least, not at the prices most people will pay, which is why it doesn't happen.

The OP is having a problem with ich, on whom a tang with a thinner slime coat is more susceptible to gaining larger scale infections. Only fish infected with ich have ich, if quarantined properly, they will not have ich until placed in an environment infected with ich. As for casual observation, you can't even see the ich parasite on a fish, or in any life cycle stage with the naked eye. Only the results of the damage done, the white specs, are visible. As well, most of the parasites will host in the fish's gills rather than on the body, leaving no visual traces.

It took like 2 weeks to learn that from casually reading academic studies, mostly revolving around the wholesale aquaculture (not hobbyist) industry. It's not made up, those business can't afford to make things up when they have millions in food stock potentially at risk of loss from an outbreak. The life cycle, treatment, prevention and ineffective control methods are all well studded and cited in dozens of published journals at this point, probably more well known than any other marine fish disease we'll see in our tanks.

acepumping
08-16-2017, 04:36 AM
You quarantined AFTER the fact to treat fish. COMPLETELY opposite to my input. You SURE that you have been following the thread properly or just jumped the gun ?

quarantining makes perfect sense to do from the start.
my point is that it shall be done before adding a fish to the tank, as a precaution.. I don't quarantine before hand, but I should!!! especially if you have pricey fish already in the tank!!
this voice is familiar LOL

Myka
08-16-2017, 04:46 AM
Everybody better start behaving..... Myka is on her way!!!
I think this thread is quite entertaining. :pop2:

I just hope people aren't taking "videosilva" too seriously. :eek:

Frogger
08-16-2017, 06:36 AM
Thank you all. When i drop the Tang into the tank the other fish give him a hard time. it's not like he is the new guy, they've all met before, but each time i put him back in from QT, it is like he has a kick me sign on his back.

I think that between that and the unstable temp and salinity the stress is too much for this guy. i even tried moving all the rocks around so nobody really has a territory to fight over. Nice fish, but i dont think i can meet his requirements.

I too think QT is an important part of the process. though i find it frustrating isolating my new fish for weeks before adding him to the main tank. At the same time i do not want to lose all my other fish. Seeing the ich and not taking him out would drive me crazy. maybe he will get better....maybe he will infect everybody else...

I foresee a trip back to the LFS for this guy once his time in QT has passed. dont think they will accept a sick fish.

Back to the original question. Try isolating him for a while within the display tank to allow himself to get comfortable. That can be done either by blocking off a small section of the tank with egg crate or using one of those plexiglass acclamation boxes

Myka
08-16-2017, 01:29 PM
How anyone ONE person is able to get eleven thousand posts on ANY forum in beyond me.

:lol: Over 13 years of contributions here? Exactly what have YOU contributed here besides some entertainment? Which I do appreciate by the way - it's slow around here these days, and I need to keep my post count up.

OP'S question was answered long before you arrived.

joe pooh
08-16-2017, 10:05 PM
Back to the original question. Try isolating him for a while within the display tank to allow himself to get comfortable. That can be done either by blocking off a small section of the tank with egg crate or using one of those plexiglass acclamation boxes

nice. reasonable. he is in qt now. i will acclimate to regular tank water before putting him back in with a plexiglass divider.

Lets assume that the general (though not complete) consensus is that it should be quarantined.... How long? i saw 3 weeks, 4? i did see the "why not 4 weeks and a day" the 4 weeks in this instance is taking into account the give or take a day leaning towards the safe side.

kyl
08-16-2017, 10:09 PM
What do you want to quarantine it for, ich? If so, it's rather pointless as it will be in the DT and just get re-infected when re-introduced. Another removal and QT process will probably be no better on the fish stress wise than simply leaving it in the tank.

gregzz4
08-17-2017, 03:03 AM
Hey Joe
I prefer to put an Ich infected fish in QT until the visible spots disappear, then start the clock. Minimum 4 weeks to pass the next cycle of Trophonts, then watch for another 2 weeks for signs of new infection. So in my case, it can be up to 7-8 weeks in QT.
Last time I had an issue I ended up running my tank fallow for 86 days while I treated the survivers in a Hospital tank.

Good luck bud

rsisvixen
08-17-2017, 06:19 AM
Just for interest sake.

I read some interesting research where they say if you have ich in your tank and for reasons you can't remove fish or treat tank. If you wait 11-12 months without adding anything new-no corals,fish rock etc the ich will actually die off naturally as after multiple generation cycles it wears out. Genetically it just weakens to the point where it can't survive.

gregzz4
08-17-2017, 02:25 PM
Genetically it just weakens to the point where it can't survive.
I've heard that too, but with a new strain taking up to 72 days per cycle, that 11-12 months just became around 30 ...

Northern Reefer
08-18-2017, 12:16 PM
What was never mentioned is tank size? If the tank is only 50 gallons ish..... then the stress of a small tank will continue to bring on disease..... may not be ich at all. Tangs need space or they will not ever be healthy and happy.