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View Full Version : Importing Coral Discussion (CITES)


Animal-Chin
07-06-2017, 05:25 PM
Already planning my trip.

(Mod edit) Thread about Macna 2018 in Seattle deleted.

Animal-Chin
07-06-2017, 05:49 PM
I've started looking into bringing items back to Canada from Macna.


http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/imports/aquatic-animals/eng/1331906471842/1331908089467

shiftline
07-06-2017, 07:38 PM
As for corals what if any are we actually allowed to bring back?


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Animal-Chin
07-06-2017, 08:03 PM
Coral importing seems complicated but I've reached out for info.


On the website...

Pet aquatic animal exemption
When importing an aquatic animal, an import permit will not be required when the owner can:

present proof of their identity and their ownership of the aquatic animal to the inspector at the point of entry into Canada
attest to the fact that the pet animal has not been taken to a show or display outside of Canada
keep the pet animal in their household aquarium
ensure the pet animal is not exposed to any aquatic animals other than those kept in the household, for one year following the importation
not import another pet aquatic animal as listed below for the period of 90 days after the importation
keep all records of the importation

- and -

The pet aquatic animal is one of the following susceptible species of finfish:
Barbonymus gonionotus
Carassius auratus
Colisa lalia
Danio rerio
Glossogobius giuris
Osphronemus goramy
Oxyeleotris marmorata
Poecilia reticulata
Puntius sophore
Symphysodon discus
Toxotes chatareus
Trichogaster pectoralis
Trichogaster trichopterus


When importing pet aquatic animals, the owner is required to complete and provide the Importer's Declaration of Ownership for Pet Aquatic Animals Form at the point of entry.
Import permits are required for all live susceptible species of finfish including those listed above if the requirements for the pet aquatic animal exemption are not met.
For susceptible molluscs and crustaceans, an import permit is necessary unless the requirements for the personal use exemption found in the Health of Animals Regulations are met.
The import requirements for pet aquatic animals can be found in the Health of Animals Regulations.
For more information, contact your CFIA Animal Health Office.
Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES)
It is the importer's/owner's responsibility to determine whether the species being imported is subject to the controls imposed by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), which are administered by the Canadian Wildlife Service. Please contact the Canadian Wildlife Service for information.

WarDog
07-06-2017, 08:57 PM
As far as I understand, you are required to have CITES for any LPS or SPS crossing the border.

JamRobo
07-07-2017, 05:42 AM
Me too. I'm stocked it ma close and driveable!

As for corals what if any are we actually allowed to bring back?


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Hey shift. Ive brought over corals multiple times now, the main thing is everything you bring accross has to be for "your tank" not anyone elses, not for re sale... for your own personal use. Ive had no issues bringing anything accross, fish and inverts are also fine....
One thing i do recommend and will save you from hours of cbsa reaserching to make sure its admissable is to go on
AIRS
http://airs-sari.inspection.gc.ca/airs_external/english/decisions-eng.aspx

Use the drop downs to narrow the search down to fish and invertabres. I dont exactly remember what selections get you to the fish and coral but its there. Once you reach the last drop down option it will either say approved or denied. Print that page and bring it with you and they can use the shortcut code and it will bring it right up on their computers!

Just remember..... its for YOUR OWN TANK!

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F.H
07-07-2017, 08:50 AM
^ Interesting. If anyone figures out the number selections to end up with "coral" or something relevant then please post it.

DAVE
07-07-2017, 01:32 PM
Hey shift. Ive brought over corals multiple times now, the main thing is everything you bring accross has to be for "your tank" not anyone elses, not for re sale... for your own personal use. Ive had no issues bringing anything accross, fish and inverts are also fine....
One thing i do recommend and will save you from hours of cbsa reaserching to make sure its admissable is to go on
AIRS
http://airs-sari.inspection.gc.ca/airs_external/english/decisions-eng.aspx

Use the drop downs to narrow the search down to fish and invertabres. I dont exactly remember what selections get you to the fish and coral but its there. Once you reach the last drop down option it will either say approved or denied. Print that page and bring it with you and they can use the shortcut code and it will bring it right up on their computers!

Just remember..... its for YOUR OWN TANK!

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This is POOR advice and you are rolling the dice each time you bring back a CITIES required coral over the border. Without the proper paperwork it is smuggling which can lead to huge fines and jail time.

Just because you got away with it doesn't make it legal. CITIES are required to legally import CITIES restricted species into the country that is the LAW.

TimT
07-07-2017, 05:06 PM
This is POOR advice and you are rolling the dice each time you bring back a CITIES required coral over the border. Without the proper paperwork it is smuggling which can lead to huge fines and jail time.

I think poor advice is quite an understatement!

If you bring back coral(even one piece) and they catch you without a CITES and they are feeling grumpy. You will lose the coral, possibly get charged for smuggling, possibly have your vehicle impounded and get flagged in the CBSA computers. Then every time you enter Canada you get inspected. It's a big dice roll and not worth it in my books.

JamRobo
07-07-2017, 05:21 PM
I think poor advice is quite an understatement!

If you bring back coral(even one piece) and they catch you without a CITES and they are feeling grumpy. You will lose the coral, possibly get charged for smuggling, possibly have your vehicle impounded and get flagged in the CBSA computers. Then every time you enter Canada you get inspected. It's a big dice roll and not worth it in my books.
You dont need a cites for personal use.... ive called cites and spoke with them before i even tried... go on airs and do it for yourself. The last drop down option is either " for personal use" or not... if you select not then yes your require a permit....
It says approved on their website.
But dont worry about it if your so concerned, ive talked to plenty of cbsa, cites, and their supervisors and its ok.. im not saying go over there and buy a truck load of corals. Im saying if you want to bring something back for yourself then its OK as long as its for personal use.

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JamRobo
07-07-2017, 05:24 PM
I live a minute from the aldergrove crossing i cross atleast a few times a month, talked to almost every cbsa there and done my research on it.
But dont mind me and my terrible advice

WarDog
07-07-2017, 06:18 PM
:pop2:

TimT
07-07-2017, 06:59 PM
I live a minute from the aldergrove crossing i cross atleast a few times a month, talked to almost every cbsa there and done my research on it.
But dont mind me and my terrible advice

Did any of them ever refer you to Environment Canada? EC is responsible for importation of CITES regulated organisms into Canada. My recommendation is to check directly with the people responsible. You can contact Brenda at Environment Canada. Her email is brenda.buchart@ec.gc.ca She is up to date on all the CITES regulations. Things may have changed since June when I last imported Corals. :)

DKoKoMan
07-07-2017, 07:18 PM
I think poor advice is quite an understatement!

If you bring back coral(even one piece) and they catch you without a CITES and they are feeling grumpy. You will lose the coral, possibly get charged for smuggling, possibly have your vehicle impounded and get flagged in the CBSA computers. Then every time you enter Canada you get inspected. It's a big dice roll and not worth it in my books.

+1. I'm sure my wife wouldn't be impressed if I got flagged for trying to bring back corals for my tank.

acepumping
07-07-2017, 09:59 PM
You dont need a cites for personal use.... ive called cites and spoke with them before i even tried... go on airs and do it for yourself. The last drop down option is either " for personal use" or not... if you select not then yes your require a permit....
It says approved on their website.
But dont worry about it if your so concerned, ive talked to plenty of cbsa, cites, and their supervisors and its ok.. im not saying go over there and buy a truck load of corals. Im saying if you want to bring something back for yourself then its OK as long as its for personal use.

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lol YES YOU DO NEED CITES!!! anything on the cites list needs a permit.. EVEN YOUR PERSONAL STUFF!!!
guys don't take this advice as there is lots of experienced people in this forum and this is some bad advice..
yes, you can face a smuggling charge and a fine up to $10,000.00.
certain things like RFA, YOU are able to snag across with scientific names etc.. still a headache..
as for most stuff.. you need permits

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jhj0112
07-07-2017, 10:10 PM
As far as I understand, you need CITES anything stoney corals (pretty much every SPS, LPS). only softies and anemones are OK. even then those should not be attached to any rock..

Also, you need have the receipt with scientific names of corals... It can be big PITA.

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JamRobo
07-07-2017, 11:30 PM
Well just goes to show how much of a joke the border system can be... i got this info from calling and talking to people at cites and cbsa and cfia.... trust me i spent hours researching and on the phone... im not trying to spread false info this is just what i was told by them... and i declared them everytime ive brought them accross its not smuggling.... ive been searched and held while cbsa does their research and everytime they send me through just fine....
Sorry to anyone that i may have mis informed im going to call cites again and discuss this further with them. Again.

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Dearth
07-07-2017, 11:53 PM
Personally its just not worth the hassle if you want it that bad then by all means its YOUR choice

Everybody has their own opinion about the border and its crossing but remember this there is one constant at the border going either way. You have next to no rights at the border and border guards have a wide swath of authority going either way just remember that.

davej
07-08-2017, 12:38 AM
Hey shift. Ive brought over corals multiple times now, the main thing is everything you bring accross has to be for "your tank" not anyone elses, not for re sale... for your own personal use. Ive had no issues bringing anything accross, fish and inverts are also fine....
One thing i do recommend and will save you from hours of cbsa reaserching to make sure its admissable is to go on
AIRS
http://airs-sari.inspection.gc.ca/airs_external/english/decisions-eng.aspx

Use the drop downs to narrow the search down to fish and invertabres. I dont exactly remember what selections get you to the fish and coral but its there. Once you reach the last drop down option it will either say approved or denied. Print that page and bring it with you and they can use the shortcut code and it will bring it right up on their computers!

Just remember..... its for YOUR OWN TANK!

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

If you look at top of page you linked this is in regards to food.
The concern is cites controlled corals.
All stony reef building corals are cites controlled and require permits.
Not cheap.
You might luck out and get a border agent who doesn't know, but it only takes one person aware of what is required to open up a world of hurt.
Who wants a cavity search every time you cross the border.

shiftline
07-08-2017, 01:31 AM
So it's pretty much not worth it? Stick to hardware only ?! Haha


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acepumping
07-08-2017, 02:47 AM
my thing is, never trust the border.. they never give you a straight answer, yet alone a proper answer..
eg: no alcohol tolerated!!
but it's ok for a 6 pack lol..

do your full due diligence and have paper work noted and signed from proper people saying it's ok...

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Animal-Chin
07-08-2017, 06:34 PM
Maybe the vendors will take into consideration the proximity to canada and pre prepare for us? Lol maybe?

dino
07-09-2017, 08:25 PM
Well just goes to show how much of a joke the border system can be... i got this info from calling and talking to people at cites and cbsa and cfia.... trust me i spent hours researching and on the phone... im not trying to spread false info this is just what i was told by them... and i declared them everytime ive brought them accross its not smuggling.... ive been searched and held while cbsa does their research and everytime they send me through just fine....
Sorry to anyone that i may have mis informed im going to call cites again and discuss this further with them. Again.

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hey JAMROBO I wonder if you can get them to put it in writing?

davej
07-10-2017, 03:40 AM
Give this a read in regards to importing without a permit

https://www.ec.gc.ca/alef-ewe/default.asp?lang=En&n=882C0307-1

davej
07-10-2017, 04:05 AM
If you check here

http://checklist.cites.org/#/en/search/output_layout=alphabetical&level_of_listing=0&show_synonyms=1&show_author=1&show_english=1&show_spanish=1&show_french=1&scientific_name=Cnidaria&page=3&per_page=20

You will find
All stony corals are listed under Appendix II


And if you go here:
http://www.ec.gc.ca/cites/default.asp?lang=En&n=2958484A-1#_02

You will find:
Appendix II
Are not currently rare or endangered but could become so if trade is not regulated.

International trade is possible, controlled by permits.
Specimens to be imported into Canada must be accompanied by:

a CITES export permit issued by the exporting country


So if you got thru the border with stony corals you got lucky.
But in my opinion its only a matter of time

corpusse
07-10-2017, 03:38 PM
The 2018 Macna Seattle page just changed its location to Omaha Nebraska. I'm starting to think its a BS facebook page.

I asked earlier in the thread where this info came from but no one bothered to reply. I mentioned I was under the impression the location of MACNA for the following year is announced at the current years event. This is when the location will be announced.

As for this whole border mess I think the big thing is different border crossings are clueless as to the real rules. I recently moved to northern Ontario and needed to renew my passport, I was going over to the US just for a day and a Service Canada employ suggested I make a photocopy of the passport (at service canada) and use that to cross into the US at Sault Ste Marie MI, her exact words were "I can almost guarantee you will be fine if you cross here". This completely shocked me. I refused her advice and instead traveled with a passport expiring in 7 days. Now I was fine and as per homeland security Canadians are exempt from needing additional time on their passport but I still went early and fully expected to be questioned about this.

I've heard of people here bringing back LPS / SPS and declaring it and being okay, but again all it takes is one person to know the rules and you will be in trouble.

WarDog
07-10-2017, 05:12 PM
There was a FB page titled MACNA 2018 that started off in Seattle, that was advertised by Reef Builders Magazine. Yesterday, the location of that page was changed to Omaha. Acepumping emailed MASNA last night and they said that it was not their page and that no location of MACNA 2018 has officially been announced.

DaveJ has added some very helpful links in regards to importing corals through customs. I would recommend that if you are looking to do this, to be VERY aware of the rules before you attempt it.

This thread will probably be edited when I have time. (DONE)

Cheers,

EdsonFOWLR
12-04-2017, 04:48 AM
MACNA 2018 is in Vegas
http://macnaconference.org/2018/

WarDog
12-04-2017, 04:57 AM
MACNA 2018 is in Vegas
http://macnaconference.org/2018/

You're late to the party.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=124080&highlight=Macna